Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 44

[cahn]

Not only are these posts still going, there is now (more) original research going on in them deciphering and translating letters in archives that apparently no one has bothered to look at before?? (Which has now conclusively exonerated Fritz's valet/chamberlain Fredersdorf from the charge that he was dismissed because of financial irregularities and died shortly thereafter "ashamed of his lost honor," as Wikipedia would have it. I'M JUST SAYING.)

Comments

[mildred_of_midgard]

Salon is so cool. I'm so excited about my new Kurrent skills! The possibilities are endless!

[luzula]

So when are you guys going to start correcting Wikipedia? : D

Katte's less famous final Puncte - Translation

[selenak]

Lieutenant von Katte requested on the evening before his execution that I should report the following items to his lord father.

1.) He asks that his lord father should send the younger son of the Lieutenant‘s broathers to the Pegagogium in Halle, and that his lord father should not pay attention to any protests of other people whose current social interaction was very dangerous to this young man, and through whom the temptation to evil would be inevitable.

2.) He asks that his lord father should not allow any breaks in the education of this youngest brother in the Pedagogium of Halle, for these aren‘t just dangerous but afterwards, it would be impossible to catch up with everything all at once.

3.) He asks that his lord father should let this youngest son be taught well in theology, because he, the LIeutenant, has had great use of having heard Freylinghausen‘s theology lecture four times after remembering it before his current ending.

4.) He asks that his lord father makes said son regard the nobility of souls higher, for the other nobility does not help one to a blessed state.

5.) He asks that his lord father should not think of raise the children to a high standing in the world, but only to put them into God‘s grace, for then the other will come by itself if it is God‘s will, for the world had need of the pious, while the pious can lack the world if they have God.

6.) Finally he asks that his lord father should comfort himself about the LIeutenant‘s execution by considering that he, the Lieutenant, surely was with God now and that as he knew that he had become guilty against the Fourth Commandment with his sins, and towards God as well, he had for this reason asked God for his forgiveness and received it, and he begs that his lord father should forgot all the insults he had suffered. (It‘s not clear gramatically whether the insult sufferer is Hans Herrmann or Hans Heinrich, but I think Müller/Katte‘s meaning is that Hans Heinrich should forget the insults Hans Herrmann has suffered.)
 
On the evening before his execution, Lieutenant Katte asked that after my return to Berlin, I should preach during the first sermon for the Regiment Gens d‘Armes about the text Gal. 6 v. 7 to 10 „7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked“* and in this sermon should say this:

1.) That the officers may forgive him for annoying them.

2.) That they should not prefer the love of the world to the love of God.

3.) That they should not abuse God‘s mercy but use it well and in time.

4.) That they should assure themselves of God‘s grace in time; for they could not know whether they would have as much time to prepare themselves for their deaths as he has had.

5.) That they should firmly belive that Katte was able to confront death in comfort not through reasonable considerations but through the achievement and assurance of God‘s mercy.

6.) That they should be wary of enjoying evil society, evil conversations, worldly desires, evil books and the stirring up of other people, also of gambling and drinking.

7.) That they should praise God for allowing Katte to achieve the blessed state, and

8.) That your example should be taken as a true improvement.

Yes, that‘s a sudden switch from the third person to a second person direct adress in the last point, which is weird because it doesn‘t make sense with Katte as the speaker, only as the spoken to.

*The rest of the Galater quote Katte wanted to be preached about goes „for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.“

Additional thoughts: „Yep, that‘s the guy who considered Fritz being forced to convert to Catholicism to marry an Austrian Archduchess as worse than parental abuse“ is certainly one reading of this. Also, between accusing himself of going against the Fourth Commandment (honour thy father and thy mother) and advising his comrades not to „stir up other people“, I think we‘re talking about helping Fritz against FW here, not about rebelling against his own Dad, though if you interpret it differently, I‘m all ear and not firm on the point.

There‘s still the possibility of Katte intending to make goodwill with FW for both his family and Fritz, and to make his father feel better, but since all of this isn‘t addressed to Fritz but to his own father, I think it‘s reasonable to assume he was being sincere and this is what he did believe on the evening before his death.

Why the youngest brother and not the other one: in addition to what Felis said in the other post, I‘m tempted to go with the youngest - who will become Hans Heinrich‘s fave - as the one resembling Hans Herrmann the most, the one he feels closest to? Or maybe no one likes the middle kid in this family…

Re: Katte's less famous final Puncte - Translation

[cahn]

Okay, this broke my heart. Katte :(

Also, between accusing himself of going against the Fourth Commandment (honour thy father and thy mother) and advising his comrades not to „stir up other people“, I think we‘re talking about helping Fritz against FW here, not about rebelling against his own Dad, though if you interpret it differently, I‘m all ear and not firm on the point.

Haha ugh, I do want to interpret that differently but I think you're probably right. I mean, I could construct something where "lord father should forget all the insults he had suffered" means insults from Katte towards his father, which would tie in neatly to the fourth commandment, but... I really don't think that's what he means.

There‘s still the possibility of Katte intending to make goodwill with FW for both his family and Fritz, and to make his father feel better, but since all of this isn‘t addressed to Fritz but to his own father, I think it‘s reasonable to assume he was being sincere and this is what he did believe on the evening before his death.

Yeah <3 :(

(I must admit I'm rather sad that it doesn't look like Katte was trying to send a secret message to Fritz after all, bah. But mostly: poor Katte.)

The two letters from Glasow to Fredersdorf - Translation

[selenak]

Letter 1:


I didn‘t want to omit notifying your grace that His Majesty the King will arrive at Potsdam tomorrow morning around 9 or 10 am. And since His Majesty the King is willing to pay for all the incurred debts, no matter how they were produced, his Highness has gracefully ordered me to have your Grace make a list of all. And upon our arrivel, I‘m supposed to pick it up the extraction from you.

Your Grace may take care not to forget a thing, for His Highness wants to clear up all once and for all, so that you won‘t keep getting inconvenienced all the time, and if something gets forgotten, it won‘t be paid later.

In conclusion I have the honour
of remaining with all due respect
Your Grace‘s most obedient servant

C Glasow
Berlin January 11th 1757

The Sanssouci reparations should also be listed, the (P)XXX glXXX for which I don‘t have to be there should XbeXXX and also be listed.

Translator and guesser note: We know Fritz returned to Potsdam for early January from Saxony for a short visit. On the surface, this seems pretty straightforward - i.e. Fredersdorf should list all remaining expenses from his time in office and Fritz is willing to pay them all so that Fredersdorf won‘t be bothered with any more paperwork - but given we know Glasow and his buddy Völcker have already commissioned a forged signet of Fredersdorf at this point, I can‘t help but wonder whether they just want some actual Fredersdorf letters, preferably with a signet imprint, so that they can claim their own money demands are actually Fredersdorf‘s.

Second letter:

Your Grace may have to compensate from the court budget purse the vacant 1027 Reichstaler horse fodder money for the bill written 19991 rth 12g& on the beginning of each month. But there has been added the additional sum of 7991 Reichstaler, wardrobe and coffee debts of 242 Reichstahler, which amounts in summation to 80233 Reichsthaler 12 Gulden, payable for the month January 1757.

Furtherly, I reccommend myself to your obliging renembrance, and have the honour to be with all due respect

Your Graces most obedient servant

C Glasow

P.S. Pray pay the wardrobe debts first.

The horse fodder is listed with 485 Reichstaler 8 Gulden, the reparation additionally with 38 Reichstaler 8 Gulden starting with this month.

Translator and guesser comment: Coffee, of course, is Völcker‘s department, and wardrobe presumably Glasow‘s as the current main valet cum Treasurer. This does not seem to fit with the idea Fritz wants all remaining Fredersdorf caused expenses paid so Fredersdorf won‘t be bothered anymore, but it fits very well with Glasow getting cheeky and wanting Fredersdorf to pay for the horse fodder which may be the same one later showing up in the Leining and Fredersdorf correspondence while filching the money for said fodder away to himself. But that‘s just a guess, and I suppose it‘s just as possible both letters are straightforwardly what they appear to be, letters concerned with due bills and paperwork upon a change of office holder.

It‘s worth pointing out, though, that if you compare Glasow to Leining, Gentze and Anderson, he uses the usual 18th century polite phrases but does not mention anything personal, like Fredersdorf‘s health, or a shared acquaintance (other than the King), nor does he ask for advice, nor does he make a joke or a personal complaint. There‘s no sense these two men know each other particularly well, and yet Glasow has joined Fritz‘ service in 1755 (I think? Mildred?), or at least that‘s when he gets noticed because he goes along on the Netherlands trip. So while there is a sense of connection between Fredersdorf and the other three letter writers - not that they are bff, but that these men didn‘t just work with each other but have a personal relationship - there is none of that here. As ever, that‘s just my impression.

Re: The two letters from Glasow to Fredersdorf - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

I am frankly astonished that any of my guesses at that handwriting resulted in something you could render into a sensible meaning!

This does not seem to fit with the idea Fritz wants all remaining Fredersdorf caused expenses paid so Fredersdorf won‘t be bothered anymore, but it fits very well with Glasow getting cheeky and wanting Fredersdorf to pay for the horse fodder which may be the same one later showing up in the Leining and Fredersdorf correspondence while filching the money for said fodder away to himself.

Hmm, yes, could be! I definitely, when reading this and seeing Glasow report all these numbers, went, "We know what you're up to, Glasow! Posterity is on to you!" ;)

It‘s worth pointing out, though, that if you compare Glasow to Leining, Gentze and Anderson, he uses the usual 18th century polite phrases but does not mention anything personal, like Fredersdorf‘s health, or a shared acquaintance (other than the King), nor does he ask for advice

Advice: Don't embezzle, you will get caught. :P

yet Glasow has joined Fritz‘ service in 1755 (I think? Mildred?)

Manger says 1755, and I think he's the only one who gives a firm date. If it's true, and if Glasow went to war with Fritz in mid-1756, then Glasow and Fredersdorf were in each other's circles for a year and a half at best. So it doens't *necessarily* mean anything that they don't have a personal relationship, though with the benefit of hindsight, it does make one wonder.

So while there is a sense of connection between Fredersdorf and the other three letter writers - not that they are bff, but that these men didn‘t just work with each other but have a personal relationship - there is none of that here. As ever, that‘s just my impression.

No, that definitely stands out to me too. Given the rumors that Glasow drove Fredersdorf out, or that Fredersdorf stepped down because of jealousy of Glasow, I wonder if there were visible tensions betwen the two. Like, did Fredersdorf dislike/disapprove of Glasow? Was Glasow avoiding him because he didn't want Fredersdorf's eagle eye on his activities? Was there anything other than "one hot guy is getting older and new hot guy is younger" that inspired these rumors?

Some more observations

[selenak]

1) Klaun in letter 5 Gentze/Fredersdorf: I figured it was "Klaue" myself, as in "claw", of an animal, speaking metaphorically, not a claw can get in or out, but in English it's mouse, so that's what I wrote.

2) Fritz giving Groeben a Windhund: on the one hand, earliest sign of his interest in Italian Greyhounds/whippets, sure, most likely explanation. Otoh, with all the elaborate mythological "Wind" allusions in the earlier letter, I wonder whether it wasn't instead yet another elaborate bad pun and what was given wasn't a dog at all. But maybe I'm overthinking things here. One thing is sure, though, I totally get why Volz & Co. didn't publish these letters, and it's not about prudery, it's that they're as funny as most inside jokes are to people not on the inside and otherwise smack less of high spirits than of wannabe fratboyness and cheer. (For comparison, Fritz to Wilhelmine or Voltaire when in a good mood: feels way less forced and more relaxed.)

Re: Some more observations

[mildred_of_midgard]

1) Klaun in letter 5 Gentze/Fredersdorf: I figured it was "Klaue" myself, as in "claw", of an animal, speaking metaphorically, not a claw can get in or out, but in English it's mouse, so that's what I wrote.

See, that's exactly what I thought (and that partly governed my decipherment choices), but it's not an expression I was familiar with in German, so I left it up to you all to determine if I'd read it correctly.

One thing is sure, though, I totally get why Volz & Co. didn't publish these letters, and it's not about prudery, it's that they're as funny as most inside jokes are to people not on the inside and otherwise smack less of high spirits than of wannabe fratboyness and cheer.

Yep, I had the same reaction. These letters are not as much fun as I'd hoped, and I have no urge to publish them, even if I could fully decipher them!

Archive updates

[mildred_of_midgard]

I heard back from the Lower Saxon archive today, and the permission we got from the Knyphausens is sufficient, so the archive has agreed to make make copies of all the Keith family papers and send them to me to download in exchange for money! *happy dance*

I continue to be thankful to selenak for help contacting the Knyphausens with business letters written in German, felis for asking if I was SURE I couldn't order reproductions, and prinzsorgenfrei for being willing to try to go to Aurich if needed.

As for the papers, I was afraid that these would be like some of the Prussian archive signatures, where each set is about 5-10 pages, but it looks like the 5 signatures we want will add up to about 1000 sheets of paper total, with some blank pages and some double-sided pages. Hopefully that means there's some juicy stuff in there!! I can't wait!

I don't know how long it will take to be ready, but I assume a few weeks, which is in a way good, because work, which has been crazy last week, is going to continue being crazy for the next week at least and probably the next few weeks. (cahn, you know the details :P). I'm almost glad I have something to occupy me while I wait impatiently for archive orders (I currently have 4 orders outstanding at 4 different archives in 3 different countries). But I do plan to take off work once I have my images in hand.

Btw, remember when I said that the Lower Saxon archive replies to you in English if you email them in English? This latest email, which was a little more complex because it explained their pricing structure and page estimates (they did not count the ~1000 pages, understandably, they measured the height of the stacks of paper and took a guess at how many pages per centimeter), was still in English, but it had a note at the bottom saying "Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)". And you can tell, because the signature, which was "Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Im Auftrage" in the first email, was now "With kind regards/On behalf".

Selena, I still say that your command of English is unusually good, even for West Germany.

Re: Archive updates

[felis]

1000 pages! That's a lot!

... now I'm waiting for it to be 950 pages of Karl Ernst Reinhard's financial records and medical bills. ;)

More seriously, I'm still amazed that "Nachlass Peter Keith" is a thing that turned up in an archive. Can't wait to see what's in there!

A Character of Lady Mary Hervey drawn by herself

[mildred_of_midgard]

Courtesy of the Suffolk Records Office! Selena found out about it a while back when reading the Lucy Worsley book, and I tried to order it then, but the new SRO website wasn't set up for orders yet. Last week it was, and so here we go!

A Character of Lady Mary Hervey drawn by
herself
At Ickworth the 20th of January 1744

Although it is an opinion generally received that one does
not thoroughly know oneself, I do not believe it. We conceal
our faults from others, therefore it is believed; At least
it sall be seen if I thoroughly know myself. For once
in my life, I will humble myself (which I will not often do
when I can avoid it) by saying what I know of myself.

I am little, but there are many less. I am strait,
the shoulders low, the waist round and slender, tho' I am
gracefull, the neck long, the throat frightfull, the head
too large, the face flat, the complexion is the best thing
I have, and that none of the finest but there is white
and red ,the nose ugly, large at the end with round nostrils
the mouth neither large or small, ugly or pretty, the
teeth very strong, not of a brilliant white, but well
enough and even, the gums flat and pale, the forehead
ugly, large and too high, the eyes not very small, well
enough made and placed, grey, yet soft and sprightly, as to
my hair it has nothing to make it tolerable, it grows
badly, not thick and of a pale and ugly brown. I have
three moles, one on the forehead & two on one cheek, they
become me. Thus much for my person, I shall only say
that I love neatness very much, and that I affect an
air of grandeur, which does not suit my stature
and makes me appear haughty and disdainfull: I had
forgot my eyebrows. Observe that they are not very
handsome, but well enough and set off my face.

I am not silly, tho' it may sometimes be believed I am,
but I have not one grain of solidity or judgmnet. I am
too apt to believe the professions of friendship that
are made to me, which makes me inclinable to
love than hate, this proceeds not from a good heart but a
weak mind. I am naturally gay and delighted with every
thing, unless I have something to afflict me, in which case
I have no moderation, and believe there is no person so
unhappy as myself. I love people of spirit. Raillery is a
very great pleasure to me, but I don't love those who slander
every body and every thing that is done. I like better
that they ridicule in general, than particular persons,
to' the latter diverts me very much, at the same time that I
feel some remorse for being so much pleased with it, and yet
would not silence them if I could, nor be silent myself.
This is another sign of weakness, also when I see any
one much more ridiculous than the generality of mindkind,
I cannot help laughing in their face. I detest lying, as well
because it is mean and file, as because it is a crime. I
am proud to the last degree, nothing equals it but my
ambition, which is boundless, there is nothing so ridiculous
or impossible in the world but that I have thought of to
satisfy the one and the other. I shall find it a great
misfortune to be so ambitious as I am, as there is no
likelyhood I shall ever be able to satisfy it (it not being
easy so to do) if it is not that I value myself for having
such high thoughts, and sometimes I think myself
almost worthy to be what I desire, because I cannot be
satisfied with less. I greatly love pomp, magnificence of all
sorts and ornament, but respect much more than anything
else, as I think they can never shew me too much. I very much
love persons who show me respect, but no one shews
me enough, because they do not treat me with more than
others of the same quality. I diverty myself very well
when alone, and am never tired of myself. I am very
passionate but don't let it appear. I find it beneath me,
not to be able to disguise it. I am easily chagrined,
which sometimes makes me suffer very much, whe nI am in
an ill humour. I do not shew it, but if ever it is perceived that
I answer only by monosyllables, be assured that I am the
Devil within. I can disguise myself without much pain,
I am bashfull, idle and fearfull. I love sleep, but upon
occasion can sit up all night, or get up before it is day.
When I am at home I amloth to leave my chair [to go]
awalking, but when once I have begun, I like it very
well, and am not easily tired, provided I walk slowly.
Above all I like extremely to view the country. I never
go out on horseback I am afraid. I had rather make
use of a coach than my feet. I am very curious and
awkward. I dance badly, write badly, know not how to play
at cards or do any work. I love Musick infinitely. I
mortally hate children and am uneasy when they are
in the room and they also hate me in their turn.
There is no difficulty I cannot surmount to please those
I love. I am not ungrateful, it is a vice I detest. I had
rather be hated than despised, it is the effect of my pride.
I have a very bad memory for want of sufficient
application. I love novels better than history. Geometry
and astronomy please me infinitely. When I take an
aversion to any one, I have an incredible desire
to affront them.

Commentary-less for now because I have to get to work, but it was fascinating, and I can't wait to see what selenak has to say!

Transcription notes: the third page has some holes in the page, so I took my best guess. Also, I kept the spelling but left out the capitalized nouns for ease of reading. And her commas and periods are indistinguishable, so I took my best guess, largely by avoiding comma splices.

(Also, wowza, I knew this already from the British national archives, but British archives (like the Danish) charge so much it makes me grateful I'm doing German history. This cost £18.50, and would have been 1.50 euros had it been German. That's why I haven't ordered any material on the ship that took Peter Keith to Lisbon. Thank you, Germany! OTOH, no thanks for Kurrent OMG WHYYY. :PPP)

Re: A Character of Lady Mary Hervey drawn by herself

[selenak]

Wow, that is fascinating. cahn, for the record, because we're talking about so many Herveys and Marys: this lady is Molly, wife of Hervey the memoirist, mother of (among others) Augustus the Seaman and Fred the Bishop, grandmother of Bess Foster. Mildred actually tracked down the manuscript from which the quote in Lucy Worsley's book about Georgian courtiers hails from.

With the caveat that we're just guessing after two centuries anyway, but: this comes across as a ruthlessly honest self portrait. I'm also glad we have an exact date, because 1744 means Lord Hervey the memoirist is dead, her older male kids are off to sea (Augustus) and school (Frederick), and she's living with her father-in-law when she's not in Paris.

I am naturally gay and delighted with everything, unless I have something to afflict me, in which case I have no moderation, and believe there is no person so unhappy as myself.

I daresay this is true for many people without them being aware of the second part.

I love people of spirit. Raillery is a very great pleasure to me, but I don't love those who slander every body and every thing that is done. I like better that they ridicule in general, than particular persons, to' the latter diverts me very much, at the same time that I feel some remorse for being so much pleased with it, and yet would not silence them if I could, nor be silent myself.

Ah yes. It's clear why she fell in love with Hervey and why Voltaire went to the trouble of writing a poem in English for her.

I shall find it a great misfortune to be so ambitious as I am, as there is no likelyhood I shall ever be able to satisfy it (it not being easy so to do) if it is not that I value myself for having such high thoughts, and sometimes I think myself almost worthy to be what I desire, because I cannot be satisfied with less.

Okay, that's a bit of an intrigiuing puzzle. Ambitious how, in 1744? Because if she said this as a young girl in the 1720s, when she had Alexander Pope and most of the court sighing over her before marrying the guy declared the most handsome and witty courtier, who himself definitely wanted to the confidant of Fritz of Wales and was already Caroline's, that would be one thing. (Plus there's the short lived episode where old G1 flirts with her.) I'd say she is ambitious in that she wants to make a brilliant match and move in the highest circles. But in 1744, she's no longer at court, she's an excentric widow who professes Jacobite loyalties, and is financially completely dependent on her father-in-law, so what is she ambitious for, regarding herself?

I mortally hate children and am uneasy when they are in the room and they also hate me in their turn.

That was the Lucy Worsley quoted passage which got us the entire text via Mildred, and which makes Hervey looking for another guardian for at least one of his daughters in his last will slightly better. For a woman who has had, what, eight children, it's even in an age where you're not supposed to do the hands-on raising of toddlers as a member of the nobility a very rare admission, I'd say. Now I'm assuming she means literally "children", i.e. the fondness expressed in her letters for grown up Augustus, say, isn't faked but another matter and she was one of those types who gets interested once the offspring have made it to the teenage stage. But still, I'd say between Lord Hervey showing zero interest in his children (last will aside) that we know of and Molly disliking hers when they're still in the children stage, that explains something about Fred the Bishop's deadbeat Dad parenting style...

Return of the manly chaste Prussians

[selenak]

I'm currently reading up on a bunch of 19th century female writers/feminists/revolutionaries, and one of them, Fanny Lewald, happens to have written a novel about Louis Ferdinand, Heinrich's favourite nephew, who was famous for a) his love affairs, b) dying young on the battlefield against Napoleon as the sole Hohenzollern military hero of his generation. Now Fanny Lewald otherwise is actually an endearingly sharp-tongued realistic person; I've read her memoirs, and also her series of articles about all women (not just the daughters of rich families able and willing to hire a private tutor) deserving proper school education, or the articles detailing the abysmal underpaid overworked situation of working class women. But wouldn't you know it, the Louis Ferdinand novel starts out with a chapter explaining/apologizing for the characters all still having been formed by the 18th century in their selfish me-and-my-love-affairs (instead of freedom-of-the-fatherland and me) attitudes and basic amorality about extramarital goings on, all the fault of, who else, FW2's era for FW2 in his weakness allowed the manly chasteness that prevailed when Fritz was King to be replaced by Orgies Orgies Orgies (and religion, in all fairness, she's also critiszing that - Fanny Lewald was born Jewish, converted for the social pressure reasons of the time and was immediately sorry for it, deciding she didn't believe anything anymore, neither Christian nor Jewish religion). This immediately reminded me of Schmidt-Lötzen's original preface to Lehndorff's (first volume of) diaries where he mentions that the idea of manly chaste Prussians in the Fritzian era being replaced by a sex obsessed lot under FW2 will have to be revised on the evidence of said diaries.

...what I want to know: how did the 19th century popular historians* sell Seydlitz if they really wanted to believe everyone in the Fritz era had either marital sex or none at all? (And that's only on the het side of things.) And did they really imagine FW2 having mistresses did make that much difference so that everyone suddenly started to have extramarital sex?

*I make the qualification because clearly anyone like Preuss with actual access to the letters of Fritz & Co. must have been without that delusion.

And Fanny Lewald wasn't a prude. Her (successful) argument towards her father as to why she didn't want to have an arranged marriage was that she didn't see how this was better than prostitution - providing sex and housekeeping in return for being financed - and that in fact she thought prostitution was more honest. In her articles, she scoffs at the ridiculousness of expecting women to blush (or not look at all) when faced with Greek statues or a great deal of classic European art and wants to know whether men imagine children to be born clothed. But still: she starts a novel aimed at her 19th century contemporaries with that disclaimer/apology.

As to what Fritz would say when learning his era in the 19th century was basically sold as Sparta with more culture and less sex...

Re: Return of the manly chaste Prussians

[mildred_of_midgard]

Alas, continuing back pain means I still can't properly reply to comments, much less tell you about all my findings from my readings, even less decipher the latest acquisitions from the archives, but just a note that if you want to know how 19th-century historians sold Seydlitz, there *is* a copy of Varnhagen von Ense's 1834 bio of the same in the library. If you want to check it out and tell us all about it, I'm all ears!

Luz tries to read a historical romance

[luzula]

This might amuse salon: I read a few sample chapters of Like the Down of a Thistle by Sarah Swan, which is a historical f/f romance set in the Scottish Highlands, with two ordinary clanswomen as protagonists. It went like this:
Protagonist: My family has a Clydesdale horse and I am wearing a muslin chemise!
Luz: Okay, I think you must be in the 19th century.
Protagonist: My neighbor’s husband is going off to raid and fight a battle against another clan!
Luz: Whoa. You're in the 17th century at the latest.
Protagonist: This summer we are going to try the strange new crop called potatoes!
Luz: Right, you just positioned yourself in the mid-18th century.
Sigh, probably not the Jacobite f/f romance I was looking for...

Re: Luz tries to read a historical romance

[selenak]

LOL. Historical knowledge: sometimes a real detrimental to enjoying fiction.

The other day, I watched the first episode of a new (German, but very evidently produced for the US market) show, and therein the hero gets presented with an old chronicle written by his ancestors. In Latin letters handwriting. No Kurrent in sight.

Self: Life would have been far easier for Mildred if Kurrent had not existed and early 18th century Germans were writing in clearly and always according to modern rules spelled Latin letters!

Self: finds it harder and harder to focus on the suspense...

Life of AW

[mildred_of_midgard]

You may remember I found Ziebura's archive citation for the summary of AW's life he wrote for his son, future FW2, and I asked the Prussian archive to give me a page count.

I heard back from them today that the document is 7 pages, but the folder it was in had a note that it had been printed in the Hohenzollern-Jahrbuch.

So of course I found it, and here are the relevant points:

1. I think we knew this, but it's extremely annalistic in style, just bullet points with no commentary by AW.
2. The author of the H-J article adds a ton of commentary. [ETA: The author, Bogdan Krieger, is someone I recognize as the guy who gave us the detailed description of Fritz's library. His library interests are how he turned up the life summary from AW.]
3. AW's words are, of course, printed in the original French, but schoolgirl French should be enough, because there's so little of it, the sentences are so short, and each entry is followed by all that German-language commentary.
4. There's also some excerpts from letters printed, but again, only snippets of French.
5. The whole article is 17 pages long and can be found in the Frederician library here.

I don't know if 17 pages is short enough that our Royal Reader (or maybe Deputy Royal Reader felis) will have time to read it now, but if not, I look forward to the eventual reading! The important thing is now I don't have to decipher the handwritten document. :P

I also noticed in a footnote that there are two diaries that are relevant to AW, Freylinghausen's and Francke's, and Francke's had been published in pages 161-186 of a volume on his life, so of course I snagged it and put it here. The footnote says Freylinghausen's will be printed in the near future, so I may check out the subsequent H-J volumes to see if it's there, when I have time.

You may remember that Freylinghausen is the one who tells us about such endearing anecdotes as the time FW "jokingly" threatened to cut off little AW's finger with a knife, and AW freaked out and then decided "Papa" didn't mean it. Thus proving that FW was abusive even to his favorite kid.

Still with the back pain and crazy work schedule, but I couldn't resist sharing my AW findings with salon as soon as I had them. Still no word on the Keith papers, which is probably good (but doesn't stop me from checking my email constantly and going, "Ooh, one unread email! Is it one of the many archives I'm waiting to hear back from? Is it the Keith papers? Is it my Peter's memoirs? Is it--*click*--Pizza Hut is updating my username. Dammit." :P)

Re: Life of AW

[felis]

Ha, I can't believe I missed that when I skimmed the Jahrbuch for interesting stuff. Don't have the time to read right now, but I do have a link to Freylinghausen's diary, which is here (oh, hey, I see that one has an introduction by Krieger as well).

Money-making schemes

[mildred_of_midgard]

I'm getting closer to being able to participate in salon again--maybe next weekend?

Also, as you could deduce from my total silence, I did not receive any Peter Keith papers in time for my 3-day weekend, even though I sent the bank transfer on Tuesday and it should have arrived by Thursday. :( Hopefully this coming week!

Anyway, I am here just to report that it seems you and I owe the MT miniseries yet another apology, selenak. Remember this?

Somewhat frustratingly, they keep inventing marriage drama for MT and FS, and this installment's most baffling invention is that in order to come up with money for his beloved's army, Franzl secretly through free mason intermediaries sells army equipment to Fritz (who has the money to pay for it). I kept waiting for the material to be at least faulty or something, but no, the scriptwriters actually seem to think this was a viable scheme to make some cash through which the Austrian army can be funded. They never bother to explain why on earth if Franz Stephan can get his hands on all the textiles and gunpowder he can't equip the Austrian army with it directly. They also present MT as being in the wrong at being upset about this when eventually she finds out. You think?

Well, I'm reading a biography of FS, Und sitzet zur linken Hand, on which more on another occasion, and it says:

Eduard Vehse reports in his history of the Austrian court and nobility: "...The emperor finally took up supplying too. He took over the delivery of the uniforms, weapons, horses and outfits for the entire imperial army. In fact, during the Seven Years' War he repeatedly took over the delivery of provisions, horse feed, and flour for the army of the King of Prussia, i.e. his wife's hereditary enemy, at the most extortionate prices, at which Maria Theresa, when she found out, had to express surprise."

Also King Frederick II remarks caustically in his history of the Seven Years' War: "During the war, the prince consort, Emperor Franz, supplied friend and foe alike with ammunition and food..."

It seems like they changed which war it was, and I don't know if freemason intermediaries were involved, but the basic premise the screenwriters did not invent. I guess this falls under things you couldn't make up!

The "extortionate prices" makes more sense of it: if the Austrians had access to enough food, and FS could make a huge profit, the Austrians could use that profit to supply and pay their own soldiers. And the reason Fritz could afford extortionate prices was because he was exploiting Saxony and debasing the Saxon-Polish currency!

Re: Money-making schemes

[selenak]

Well, dang. You know, the next discovery could be the scriptwriters also didn‘t invent MT and FS catching Mimi and poor Isabella of Parma in the act or Grumbkow & Seckendorff assassinating Prince Eugene once they considered him no longer useful for Prussia…

The "extortionate prices" makes more sense of it: if the Austrians had access to enough food, and FS could make a huge profit, the Austrians could use that profit to supply and pay their own soldiers. And the reason Fritz could afford extortionate prices was because he was exploiting Saxony and debasing the Saxon-Polish currency!

Verily, and the Saxons truly have a claim of having it the worst in that war, at least in the European arena. But I take it FS didn‘t supply the Prussians until the later part of the war, given that part of our newly discovered correspondence from 1757 between various folk and Fredersdorf is about flour and other horse supply from Northern Germany?

A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: Backstory

[selenak]

Bogdan Krieger, Preface: Today, we associate "hypocrisy" with "pietism", but the start of the movement was so different, and the first two Kings of Prussia thought Francke & Co. were worthy men. F1 invited Francke to Berlin when he wanted to found an orphanage, but Francke on that occasion chatted with F1's third wife as well, and the Calvinists promptly made a big fuss because they were afraid Mrs. F1 No.3 as a strict Lutheran with a pastor at her side would get too influential, so he had to leave again.

Selena: You know, there might be another explanation. I mean, this is the time when according to F1's own letters his wife tells him he won't go to heaven because only Lutherans do, right? If I were F1, I would suspect Lutheran pastor Francke's visit of having something to do with it...

Bogdan Krieger: This was Francke the older. The one FW later met was Francke the younger, the son. FW really was into action!Christianity, supporting charity works and kicking out luxury and thus was a natural sympathzer for team Pietism. FW protected Franke the younger not just against his fellow Calvinists but against that representative of Enlightened Lutheran Christianity, Christian Wolff!

Selena: By protecting, you mean, kicking Wolff out of his country?

Bogdan Krieger: So much for the two Franckes. On to Freylinghausen. Johann Anastasius Freylinghausen was born in Wolffenbüttel, which is in Braunschweig/Brunswick in 1670 as the son of the local mayor and died in February 1739 in Halle. Studied theology in Halle where he also became a pietist, much to the horror of his parents who weren't into hardcore Lutheranism. Became Francke's sidekick. Married only at age 45, a girl whom he'd literally known as a baby since he was the pastor who'd babtized her infant self, to wit, Francke the older's daughter. Had several kids with her. When Francke the older kicked the bucket, Freylinghausen became the headmaster of the school and the orphenage in 1727, the year he visited dear old Wusterhausen. But just a year later, he had a stroke, which made him incapable of talking and repeated itself two years later. He remained sick till his death in 1739, but kept on working even with these physical handicaps. Other than the diary, he also wrote religious songs. FW called both him and his brother-in-law Francke the younger to talk with them about the continuation of the orphanage after Francke the older's death. Freylinghausen accepted the King's invitation first, and described his days with FW in this diary which I, Bodgan Krieger, found in FW3's library at Charlottenburg. Sadly, I could not find out how FW3 could get his hands on the diary. But I'm thrilled we now have a second one in addition to Francke Jr.! Especially since Freylinghausen's diary is the way better one of the two, both from a literary pov and from the content. Francke writes way whinier and ever so humble as if he was Uriah Heep. Readers, just as an example of how Francke whines, when Gundling, who sits next to him, gets "tormented" by the others, he "sighs" and writes "may God give that it gets quiet again". Whiner!

Now, FW was a Calvinist BUT in one important aspect liked Luther better, to wit, predestination (or lack of same). He was, like, really happy to chat with Lutheran pastors about why predestination wasn't a thing. But he couldn't completely shake it off, that's why he told Francke Jr. "I am a bad man". So while FW thought Lutheranism was cool, he despised Catholicism, and instructed Fritz' teachers to awaken disgust in Fritz for anything Catholic at every occasion, and I dare say this was a rare pedagic success for FW, for it worked! Okay, not completely: Fritz' teachers were supposed to make him hate Catholicism like Arianism and Atheism, and he only hated one of the three, but still.

Being the sincere and fervent Protestant he was, FW would have loved for the Pastors to unite the Calvinism and Lutheran Protestantism. To that noble purpose, he bullied some of the Lutheran pastors to accept the more simple Reformed rites, but no dice. And of course he championed persecuted Protestants in Poland and the Salzburg refugees. FW was also very concerned with pastors getting sermons right. Oh, and then there was the time he and Freylinghausen talk about the Jews, which shows he , personally, had no sympathy for them, but he has to be admired for not prosecuting them as a monarch.

Selena: I can never decide whether 18th century or 19th century antisemitism is more repulsive, but why choose?

BK: Freylinghausen tried to convert Jews really hard and explained to FW that it was the festivities on the Sabbath which kept Jews from converting to Protestant Christianity en masse, but I'm not sure he was right there. FW was first anti theatre and then okay with it. His argument was that even in the two foremost universities of the Netherlands where all the Protestant theologians studied, they allowed theatre!

Now, during his seven days visit, Freylinghausen also met Fritz, AW, Wilhelmne and Luise, the one who married the Margrave of Ansbach. We all know the totally exaggarated and unfair descriptions Wilhelmine provides in her memoirs. Also present at Wusterhausen: Grumbkow, Seckendorff, General von Pannewitz, Frau von Kamecke, Frau von Sonsfeld and Gundling. And some folk no one has ever heard of and which I won't name. All in all, 21 people were together at dinner. FW wasn't always, when he was hunting all day. Now, on to the diary entries! // end of BK preface

Re: A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: Backstory

[cahn]

Ha, and here we go! :D Selena, you are the best :D

Readers, just as an example of how Francke whines, when Gundling, who sits next to him, gets "tormented" by the others, he "sighs" and writes "may God give that it gets quiet again". Whiner!

Oh nooooooo! Gundling :( <3

Selena: I can never decide whether 18th century or 19th century antisemitism is more repulsive, but why choose?

QUOTED FOR TRUTH

We all know the totally exaggarated and unfair descriptions Wilhelmine provides in her memoirs.

I forgot to say this in your previous comment, so I'll say it here: :((((((

A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: Princes who lunch

[selenak]

Freylinghausen, diary (Freylinghausaen uses "Rex" for FW, E(go) for himself, Regina for SD, "the other Prince" or "the younger Prince" for AW, "the Crown Prince" for Fritz, and Wilhelmine and Luise are "the older Princess" and "The younger princess"):

From the theological debate on his day of arrival, Sept 4th 1727:

R: He found it so hard to love his neighbour, especially the Jews. Whether I believed that a sincere Jew could be decent; he could not love them.

E: One cannot hate a Jew for being a Jew, for our dear Saviour was in his human nature also a Jew, as were all the prophets and apostles, and whatever spiritual treasure we were given, we received from the Jewish people.

(...) Rex then said he would try a Jewish child and let him be taught in the Christian religion.

(I hope that was just a passing idea, because poor kid. But no one mentions he went through with it, phew.)

And then Freylinghausen gets invited to join the family at lunch. Here I'm translatilng a longer passage, as it's useful for fanfiction, he describes even the seating arrangement in detail:

The table was long and slender and had been placed under a colourful tent established between the high and thick lime trees. The other prince who is five years old said the prayer: "Lord God, our father in heaven", etc. The valet immediately took my coat from me and told me that the King had ordered it thus.

At the table the following people were seated: 1. Rex and to his right hand the 2. Queen, 3. at his left hand the other prince. Next to him on the same side 4. Colonel Kalckstein. 5. Margrave Carl. 6. Count Schlieben. 7. Colonel Krocher. 8. Colonel Kleist. 9. Colonel Jeeze. 10. General von Seckendorff. 11. The Crown Prince. 12. Ego. On the other side, after the Queen there were 12. the oldest and 13. the other princess. 14 Oberhofmeisterin von Kamcke. 13th The governess of the oldest Princess, Fräulein von Sonsfeld 17. General Gersdorff. 18th The Dutch Envoy Herr Koeppen. 19. General Pannewitz. 20. Herr von Sonsfeld, a Dutch Ship Captain. 21. Secret Councillor Gundling, which meant that I was sitting between him and the Crown Prince and thus directly opposite the Queen.
We ate from porcellain table wear, and the meal consisted of pork and Sauerkraut. The Crown Prince served the entire table by cutting the meat for them, and otherwise was entirely silent and did not say a single word. (Frau von Kameke later told me that the Crown Prince had been ordered to this for two days now.) The King was so gracious that when the Crown Prince wanted to observe the order of seating and thus wanted to serve me last, (FW) gestured at him to serve me something immediately, which promptly happened; the King himself handed me some baked apples and toasted me with a glass of wine. He asked: Whether I always ate and drank so little? Whereupon I replied that I didn't think I did. The King started: that I had only drunk one glass of beer and all the wine stood in front of me untouched, so I did take something. The King and the Queen quizzed me through the entire meal, so that I didn't even have the time to eat much, about one thing or the other, but with strangely intent graciousness, and they both wobth of a truly serene temper and affectionate manner.
Among other things the King began: "Be quiet, gentlemen" - even though no one was talking - and elbowed the Queen, saying: "Well, Herr Freylinghausen, tell us whether it is righteous to visit comedies. Whereupon a great silence began.
E: Your Majesty, I haven't dared to do so in good conscience.
R: Yes, I well believe you wouldn't, and it's not fitting for a preacher to do so. But what do you think about other people, may not they go?
E: Our rule be that all that we do should root in the faith and be for the honor of God; and I cannot see how one could go to comedies for this purpose.
Count Seckendorff immediately agreed with me. Regina, though, differentiated between comedies and wanted to state that as long as there weren't any obscenities and scurrilous sayings in them, which she herself condemmed, one was allowed to visit them, because it was surely better for young people to visit them than to go into beer halls or worse places. Next, the conversation turned to hunting and dancing, and the King wanted to know whether hunting was a sin.

E: I believe that one could commit a sin by hunting, but not not in general, since God created the wild beasts to be felled by men.

Of dancing, Count Seckendorff said that it was an actual lack of teachings that one didn't have scholars instructed by a dancing master to keep their bodies straight and how to bow. Learning sarabandes and minuets, though, was superflous.

Rex respondebat pro me: "Do you know, General, that I cancelled four dancing masters from the cadets' schedule and replaced them by four teachers of languages; for why should I have my people being led to the devil by dancing masters?"

But the General said that without fencing and dancing, no noble young man could make his way in the world. Whereupon Rex nearly all, me excepto, asked by name whether they had learned how to dance, which everyone replied to with a Yes. Which did not seem to please the King, and he said: "I believe if Doctor Breithaupt knew that someone had danced in his youth, or had done another evil thing, he wouldn't hire them." And this was said in such a manner as if Rex was more stating it than putting it as a question.
Next, Rex wanted to see the castellan and asked whether I had ever seen a Pharisee.
E: The old pharisees which the Holy Book talks about have long since died, but there are some among today's Christians who are of their type.


FW, you danced ballet as a boy according to your grandmother. Anyway, translating this, I realised the phrasing doesn't make it clear whether FW just instructed Fritz to cut the meat and serve the guests for two days or whether he also instructed him to remain slent, or whether Fritz being silent was his own decision. But Fritz sitting on the opposite end of the table next to Gundling is pretty telling. (Also a big contrast to the famous tobacco colleague painting where AW, in some older works misidentified as Fritz, sits next to FW while Heinrich and Ferdinand make their bows.)

Re: A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: Princes who lunch

[cahn]

Here I'm translatilng a longer passage, as it's useful for fanfiction, he describes even the seating arrangement in detail:

Ha, thank you!

The Crown Prince served the entire table by cutting the meat for them, and otherwise was entirely silent and did not say a single word.

<3

(Frau von Kameke later told me that the Crown Prince had been ordered to this for two days now.)

Ha, before reading your note at the bottom I was going to ask whether it was cutting the meat (is that not something he would regularly do at that age?) or being silent, but I see the answer is not known.

The King started: that I had only drunk one glass of beer and all the wine stood in front of me untouched, so I did take something.

Heh. Useful for fic indeed.

Regina, though, differentiated between comedies and wanted to state that as long as there weren't any obscenities and scurrilous sayings in them, which she herself condemmed, one was allowed to visit them, because it was surely better for young people to visit them than to go into beer halls or worse places.

HUH. But no mention on what FW thought of this mention of beer halls?

FW, you danced ballet as a boy according to your grandmother.

Ah, but that's maybe why he wouldn't hire other people like that!

A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: Religious Examinations

[selenak]

SD later has Freylinghausen called to her and is pretty gracious to him, asking him where he's coming from, and when he says from Wolffenbüttel she replies "oh, then you're my countryman". (Wolffenbüttel was ruled by the Hannover Welfs, though another line.) While SD is graciously chatting with Freylnghausen, little AW shows up just when Freylinghausen presents his map of the orphanage and the planned extensions (garden, a house for cows to milk, for all of which he needs money from FW):

The little Prince came with his governor, War Councillor Lindner, who teaches him geography. As the sketch looked like a map, the governor asked the Prince where Portugal was, when he pointed with his finger to the dairy, and where America, pointing to a garden, and where Africa, etc., whereupon the Prince believed he could find all this on the drawing. But when I told the Prince that I wanted to explain all to him with the right names, he followed suit and asked again: "What is this?" Ille: The orphanage. What is this, then? The grammar school. And what is this? The Paedagogium. About these correct answers, the Queen was much pleased. Afterwards, the Prince was supposed to go fishing at the pond in the garden to relax. The Queen said to Governor Lindner: "Such a small child you surely haven't taught yet." He smartly replied: "Your Majesty, never so small and at the same time so great."

The next few days happen without incidents, but on Sept. 6th, the news a deserter has been captured arrives. On the same day, lunch gets creepy because FW after starting a debate about Calvinism vs Lutheran Protestantism gets it into his head to demonstrate how well he has his children instructed in religion by making Freylinghausen examine Fritz:

R. then said: "I have all my children taught about Christ's grace and effort no differently from the Lutherans", and exclaimed: "Let the Crown Prince come here."
When the later presented himself, the King said: "Now I ask you, Herr Freylinghausen, to examine the Crown Prince whether this is not so."
The Crown Prince had to step closer towards me and became a bit paler, for all the officers who were standing around beneath the lime trees came closer and formed a circle. I tried to take the wind out of the examination by making a submissive gesture and said: "I don't doubt it."

"No," Rex said, "I ask you, examine him."

So I rose in order to do what the King wanted me to do, sed Rex: "You remain seated." Whereupon I presented the question of grace and effort of Christ to the Crown Prince, and asked whether Christ died for all. To the last question, Princeps replied: "For all who accept it."
E: Didn't Christ also die for those who didn't accept it and therefore were truly damned?
Princeps silebat. General Grumbkow replied loco principis, that this was hard to understand. E. referenced the quotes from Romans 17 and 2 Petrus 2. (I didn't have the time to look up the exact quotes) and thus demonstrated that in this the truth was grounded. Rex started to curse the damage particularismi were doing, and how it dragged either despair or great confidence after it, and addressed the teachings about the communion which he could not agree with.

(Theological footnote from me: this addresses the question of transubstitution, i.e. does wine and bread actually become the body and blood of Christ or only symbolically. A key difference between various Christian factions.

E. We have clear words for us and thus were plugging the safest course. The possibility was not one which reason could understand.
R: It is a high meal, but not consumed with one's mouth.

And Seckendorff joins the debate about what happens with the bread and wine during mass. Thankfully, that means Fritz is no longer under examination and can go while the religious debate continues. This, FW, is how you raise a bunch of kids who all say goodbye to religion as adults.

Gundling during the meal:

Secret Councillor Gundling said that a wonderful thing about the theologians of Halle was that despite having only meagre salaries, they were not demanding college fees from their students. Moreover, the bible in Hebrew as edited by Dr. Michaelis was an incomparable work. He also praised Dr. Semmler, and I said that we have received a mechanical chamber from him, that he also created a sphäram for us with a diameter of ten feet., etc. I promised to Mr. Gundling to provide him with a detailed written description, which I subsequently did, and he wanted to present it to the Academy (...)

Alas, Gundling's chance to have a scholarly conversation with someone ends when FW interferes because he wants to knew whether the students in Halle are made to learn Hebrew and Greek, and why they can't stick to reading the bible in German, who needs Hebrew and Greek anyway.

On September 7th, FW asks Freylinghausen to provide a sermon, which Freylinghausen does, and this leads to the following debate and scene at lunch:

The King again expressed his delight at the sermon h eheard and especially its application, and since among other things I had listed as one of the signs of the love for God that one should be able to say with David "this is my loyalty, that I stand with God", and how many make a slavery out of prayer instead and were glad when it was over; this the King repeated and said this was so true, and that we humans were evil. Whereupon he asked the second Prince (who surely was his firm favourite): "Wilhelm, what did stay with you from the sermon?" Whereupon the later asked back: "Papa, what did stay with you?" At this, the King laughed heartily, and with him all who were sitting at the table.
Again, the King addressed the point that he could not love the Jews, and yet he had heard now in the sermon that they, too, were his neighbour. Which gave me the opportunity to add some more explanations to the discourse. Especially I said that one of the things preventing the Jews to convert to our faith was the blaspheming on the Sabbath by the Christians, because it was allowed to them to spend the Sundays and holidays in taverns, beer halls and dancing halls. Rx said: "Well, they don't have to drink and dance, do they, but was a hard working peasant really committing a sin if he allowed himself some recreation on a Sunday."

Ego: Yes, because then they were spending all they had earned during the week and were inflicting suffering on their wives and children, so it was doubly a sin. The spiritual damage was even greater.

Rex: I cancelled the shooting competitions at Pentecost in Berlin, and I'll stick with that.

General Grumbkow protested: (...) In England, they were very exact with the holiness of the sundays and holidays, and yet there was no sign of the Jews converting to Christianity; so this could not be the real cause.

Ego: It still would be good if the Christians removed the point of contention.
Otherwise, the King asked about all the preachers in Berlin, whether I knew them and whether they had studied in Halle.

When Secret Councillor Gundling read about the coronation and the brilliance of the royal crown in England from the papers, Rex returned: "I have as little curiosity to see something like that as I have about attending the Pope's coronation." (...)
The King asked again after my children, and how old each of them was. R. said that one could not feel complete joy over one's children because one couldn't know how they would turn out. "Even my Wilhelm", he said. "I don't know, whether he'll be a child of God or a child of the Devil."

E: One can pray for them, and never lack in providing them with good education and admonishment, and leave the rest to God.

After lunch, I talked for nearly an hour with Colonel Kalckstein in the palace courtyard, who claimed to be pretty confident and assured me that the King had expressed his approval of the sermon he'd heard to all the generals. I asked hm to tell me whether I shouldn't present myself to the Crown Prince who is now 16 years old.*

*Footnote from the editor pointing out Fritz was only 15 years old.

He returned that he was only supervising him for two hours a day, early in the morning. The other time (Fritz) had to be with the King, who wasn't at home except during the meals for the entire day, so (Kalckstein) couldn't see when there would be an occasion for this. (Vera cause is that the Crown Prince doesn't have a room of his own here in which to conduct audiences, since he was to share a room with Colonel Kalckstein, a room in which both their beds are standing as well.

Footnote from the editor grudingly admitting Wilhelmine may have been onto something when claiming the living situation at Wusterhausen was extremely cramped.

Re: A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: Religious Examinations

[cahn]

R. then said: "I have all my children taught about Christ's grace and effort no differently from the Lutherans", and exclaimed: "Let the Crown Prince come here."
When the later presented himself, the King said: "Now I ask you, Herr Freylinghausen, to examine the Crown Prince whether this is not so."
The Crown Prince had to step closer towards me and became a bit paler, for all the officers who were standing around beneath the lime trees came closer and formed a circle. I tried to take the wind out of the examination by making a submissive gesture and said: "I don't doubt it."

"No," Rex said, "I ask you, examine him."

Oof. :( He tried!

E. referenced the quotes from Romans 17 and 2 Petrus 2.

This is weird, because Romans only has 16 chapters. Maybe Romans 5? Idk if there's anything there that explicitly talks about this question. (2 Peter 2 also seems not super relevant? idk, I may be missing something)


(Theological footnote from me: this addresses the question of transubstitution, i.e. does wine and bread actually become the body and blood of Christ or only symbolically. A key difference between various Christian factions.


Ah, right! Thank you for the note.

R. said that one could not feel complete joy over one's children because one couldn't know how they would turn out. "Even my Wilhelm", he said. "I don't know, whether he'll be a child of God or a child of the Devil."

OUCH! FW!

A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: How to successfully save someone's life if you're five

[selenak]

Next day, the big scene which Ziebura had in her AW biography happens. First, Fritz has to cut the meat again, then FW wants to talk again about whether or not hunting is a sin. Freylinghausen tries to be diplomatic but makes it pretty clear that he thinks while God is okay with killing animals for nourishment, hurting them for fun is not cool.

Rex turned quiet for a while and then he exploded: If I could prove to him from the holy bible that hunting was a sin, he would promise never to use a gun again to shoot deer with it. I couldn't do anything else but point to the difference I already had made, and someone pointed to the old habit of hunting as described in Psalm 22, where Christ gets compared to a hind hunted early. Another tried to excuse par force hunting by saying that a deer shot would sometimes suffer longer than one which the dogs killed with their biting.

E: I can't judge this since I've never attended par force hunting; but I am sure that it's not right to torment an animal without need. I recalled the ox huntings which sometimes take place in Halle, and Rex asked who was doing this and where it happened and similar questions.

The other Prince provided a charming interlude when he started to kiss the King's hands and to stroke his cheeks. As R. asked: "You surely want something from me, don't you?"

Ille: Yes, Papa."

R: And what?

P: Please don't hang the long fellow who has run away.

R. smiled at that, but didn't reply in the positive. Regina signalled that she approved of this intercession. Generals Seckendorff and Grumbkow supported the little Prince. Whereupon Rex started to kiss the Prince and hold him in his arms for a long time. As the Queen without Rex noticing this has gestured at me with her head and arms to say something, I then said to the little Prince: "Your Highness, your advocacy will undoubtedly weigh stronger with your father's majesty than that of ten other supplicants. For mercy is always more glorious than judgment." This seemed please the Queen. Whereupon the King said: "It is a difficult case."

Ego: Blood crimes may not be pardonable, but in cases like this on, your Majesty could surely put mercy before judgment. To which the two Generals at my right and left side agreed. N.B. The Prince had been supposed to make his plea days earlier instructus a matre Regina, but as he was afraid that Papa, as he said, might bet very angry, he had avoided it and only offered caresses, despite the fact Generals Seckendorff and Grumbkow tried to prepare the way for him with questions and speeches like these: "The Prince surely wants something if he caresses you like that." item: "The Prince surely weighs something in his heart which he wants to say." it. "Just say what it is. If it's something good, we all will help you and plead with you." But he couldn't push himself to do it. Whereupon Regina threatened him after dinner that if he wouldn't say something this time, he'd be whipped, as she told me the following day, and said she was relying on the fact I was present and could add a word or two.

Princeps then had asked Oberhofmeisterin Kameke: What was happening when they hanged someone? Whether they put something around the neck? Whether this was hurting people? Whether one died of it? And then he stayed the course. But one could guess from the entire behaviour of the King that the plea would not have been in vain. He mentioned the next day (so I can describe this here anticipando), for then the King said: That he had pardoned the villain, and asked the Prince: how the fellow should be punished if he wasn't hanged? Whereupon the Prince said: He should be whipped. The Prince was immediately reminded to thank his Majesty, which he did by kissing his hand.

That's pretty much it. The next day, Freylinghausen talks some more theology with FW who has been through a blood letting and is relatively calm, and presents religious books for the entire royal family as farewell presents. FW, SD, the girls and AW say thank you most graciously, but Fritz isn't there, so SD says she'll accept Freylinghausen's present (a collection of Francke's sermons about the apostle letters) for him and give it him. That's also the occasion where she tells Freylinghausen the backstory of AW's plea from the previous day.

Re: A Reverend at Dear Old Wusterhausen: How to successfully save someone's life if you're five

[cahn]

The other Prince provided a charming interlude

I... he was being sarcastic here, right?

P: Please don't hang the long fellow who has run away.

(sorry, I still find the mention of "long fellows" hilarious even in this context)

Ego: Blood crimes may not be pardonable, but in cases like this on, your Majesty could surely put mercy before judgment. To which the two Generals at my right and left side agreed.

GAH

despite the fact Generals Seckendorff and Grumbkow tried to prepare the way for him with questions and speeches like these: "The Prince surely wants something if he caresses you like that." item: "The Prince surely weighs something in his heart which he wants to say." it. "Just say what it is. If it's something good, we all will help you and plead with you." But he couldn't push himself to do it. Whereupon Regina threatened him after dinner that if he wouldn't say something this time, he'd be whipped, as she told me the following day, and said she was relying on the fact I was present and could add a word or two.

OMG that POOR KID. "We, the actual adults in this room, are too scared of FW, so we will ask you, the SMALL CHILD, to do this instead!" I mean, they're not wrong to be scared, and at least the fellow doesn't get hanged, but... argh.

Letter from Fritz...to Peter?

[mildred_of_midgard]

This one is written in German, and has no addressee and no date. The spelling, handwriting, and signature are all a match for Fritz in the Gröben letters. (ETA: the spelling is also a match for Fritz in the Fredersdorf letters.) It's in the middle of a stack of letters from Fritz, in French, addressed to Peter and then to his son. The compiler has attempted to place the letters in chronological order, and has placed this in the middle of early 1750s letters (but that doesn't necessarily mean anything).

Ich weis nicht mehr von meiner retour die Zeitung außgespr[en]get hat bis dato halte daführ das Sie schwehrlich vohr Ende Novembers oder anfang Decembers geschehen wirdt.

Die Schüld[ener]s müßen bis auf meiner Rükkünft warten dahr dan alles bis auffall[en] und [Pfenni??]g sol bezahlet werden.

Au[s] meiner Melancholie kan noch gahr nicht kommen und scheinet es wohl als wan ich noch lange jahre mihr damit Schlep[f]en werde.

Wegen de[r?] baü ist güht; ich bin aber [So] Vollen Chagrin, affairen arbeit ünd Sorgen das mir al das jenigen Keine erXüXde mocht Sondern es mit sehr indifferenten augen ansehe.

Komme er doch hehr, umb zu Sehen ob 2 sich ehr wie einer allein trösten kan. adieu

Selena, over to you for translation and commentary. I'm second-guessing myself largely because it's so different from the others and not what I was expecting. The other letters are all 100% business, with occasional "monarch drawing upon stock phrases to be gracious to a subject" lines. They're just like the letters we deciphered earlier this year. And then there's this.

Tell me what you think.

Re: Letter from Fritz...to Peter?

[selenak]

Okay, here we go, my attempt, with the preface that "Zeitung" in the 18th century parlance doesn't mean newspaper as it does in today's German, it means "news". If anyone ever reads Schiller's Don Carlos in German, it's used there, for example, in this sense. Also, I'm substituting modern depression for 18th century melancholy. And I'm guessing erXüXde stands for some version of "exultation", the French word meaning the same in English. And finally, the last line uses the third person "Er" address which I'm substituting with the second person address common in English.


I don't know anymore whether there have been news about my return until now; I guess it won't happen until the end of November or early December.

The creditors will have to wait until my return, then everyone shall be paid up to the last dime.

I can't escape my depression and I guess I'll carry it with me for years to come.

Regarding the construction, all is well; but I'm so full of anger, burdened with work, affairs and worries that I can't take joy from it but look with very indifferent eyes on it.

Why don't you come here and we'll see whether two can console themselves better than one.

Okay, were it not for the line about the "bau", which made me associate the various building projects of the 1740s, not solely but notably Sanssouci, I would bet on this being a letter from Crown Prince Fritz, not King Fritz, but then again, when Fritz is Crown Prince Fritz Peter is first FW's page and then a part of the Wesel garnison, and in neither case, he can't just show up at will to wherever place Fritz is. So this has to be written when Fritz is already King, and FW is no longer a factor. Unless, wait, we're talking simply about the difference between Potsdam and Berlin. (I'm recalling here how deeply-in-love Lehndorff treats Heinrich going from Berlin to nearby Potsdam with big Bro as the occasion for bursting into tears as if it's the biggest tragedy ever.) So maybe Peter is in Berlin and Fritz is in Potsdam, or the other way around, in which case Peter can make it there and back without getting into trouble with FW. But that still doesn't explain the "Bau".

So: It's definitely a personal "I'm lonely, I'm depressed, come and console me" kind of summons assuming a friendly relationship between the two correspondants. The use of German also points to young Fritz rather than older Fritz, but that's not an absolute rule (see Fredersdorf). If it's written by Crown Prince Fritz, it means enough to Peter that he carried it with him through all the exile years. If it's written by King Fritz, it means there must have been some type of later years event a bit similar to your story where Fritz goes beyond nice monarch, respectful if distant subject and starts to treat Peter like something more of a friend again.

ETA: Creditors: if it's Crown Prince Fritz, this is obviously a concern since he's getting more and more into debt, and of course both Peter and Katte later get blamed for enabling this. If it's King Fritz, he could be talking about Peter's own need for money.

Daughter of ETA: End of November, early December fits with the time of FW leaving Wusterhausen and moving with the family to Berlin. Okay, now I'm favouring "it's from Crown Prince Fritz" as an explanation.

I FOUND PETER'S MEMOIRS

[mildred_of_midgard]

They're only 8 pages long, the handwriting is abysmal, and they're not in the section I expected (this one is titled "Instructions from Frederick the Great"), which is how I missed them the first time around, quickly flipping through ~1500 handwritten pages in languages I don't know very well. But they're here!

I was hoping for something worth publishing in a short book, like the Des Champs memoirs, whereas I doubt there's much not in these memoirs not already contained in Formey's eulogy, but at least we HAVE the memoirs now, so we'll find out!

...Once I decipher this handwriting, ugh. There's a lot of blotches and scribbling out, this is obviously a first draft, but I will do my best.

Stay tuned!

P.S. Now I have to delete the part of the essay that says they must have been lost, since Carl Ernst gets the sequence of events of the escape wrong. Well, one, these are so short I doubt much detail is included, and two, from what I was able to make out on the first page, Peter, writing 20 years later, has FW sending him to Wesel in mid-January 1729, so apparently his dates can't be trusted either. (Funny how he remembers what part of what month but not what year.)

P.P.S. Wow. Even at 8 pages, just to finally have these, this was worth the $745! (Though I'm still mourning the death of my hopes of being able to publish them as a book-length monograph, short memoirs are orders of magnitude better than forever lost memoirs!)

P.P.P.S. Selena, I'm going to be behind on comments for a while longer. Please forgive your royal decipherer, and keep your write-ups coming. I'm over here avidly reading and enjoying everything you write!

Re: I FOUND PETER'S MEMOIRS

[mildred_of_midgard]

Peter, writing 20 years later, has FW sending him to Wesel in mid-January 1729, so apparently his dates can't be trusted either. (Funny how he remembers what part of what month but not what year.)

Upon closer inspection, it says the month of January, not the middle of January. Still, you'd think 1730 would be a memorable year!

But not only does he say 1729 for the year of his being sent to Wesel, he says that in August of the same year, a tragic event concerning the prince royal happened.

Wow, turning the page, he says, "When I left Wesel in 1729..."

All right, then, Peter! Your dates are not to be trusted.

Also, skipping ahead and skimming as best I can with this ABOMINABLE handwriting (especially for someone not fluent in French), he def talks about his reunion with Fritz in 1740. As far as I can tell, Peter says he put way too much weight on his relationship with Crown Prince Fritz, didn't realize how much had changed, and lived to regret it. Which we knew, but I look forward to deciphering a more nuanced take on his opinion that I can pass on.

(I was hoping to find out which brother was not!Robert, but no luck so far, either in the skimming of the memoirs, or the genealogies I have gone through so far.)

18th Century Letters from non celebrities on Salon relevant matters

[selenak]

As mentioned elsewhere, reading the Lindgren/Hartung correspondence pointed me towards an 18th century correspondence which was only published in the early 1960s (before, it was transferred among family members through the centuries) and which the two women loved to read. It's between Heinrich Christian Boje and Luise Mejer, who are 32 and 30 already when they become (romantic) friends. She's from Hannover, he's from even further up north, Holstein. He edited a literary magazine but lived from being a civil servant, and then a countryside judge, she was passed among various relations as was an unmarried bourgois' woman's lot. They were both friends with the Kestners (that's the Lotte Buff who inspired the Lotte from Werther and her husband, Not!Albert Kestner), distantly knew Goethe, knew the previous generation's fave German poet Klopstock even better, knew Dr. Zimmermann of Fritz fandom fame but didn't like him much, and because Boje like many a Northern German, especially from Holstein, tried to get a job in Denmark, knew Bernstorff. He had bad timing: when he befriended Bernstorff, Bernstorff was about to lose his influence again in the Juliana-Guldberg led regime, and when Bernstorff regained some influence, Boje had a job elsewhere. However, one of the Bernstorff daughters, Emilie, stayed with him and Luise for the year their eventual marriage lasted. Boje/Luise is a happy story with an incredibly tragic ending. They met and were simpatico at once and he quicly proposed, but she pointed out that a) neither of them had much money, and b) she was in bad health, so let's stay friends instead. They then spend years of intense, loving correspondence for years and years and him trying to find a rich wife and her trying to find good candidates for good marriage for him, but then her health improved, she signalled she was reconsidering, and he at once re proposed and they married. Happy ending! Except then she got pregnant and died by childbirth along with the child after only a year of marriage. Eerily, early in the correspondence this happened to German literary legend Gotthold Ephraim Lessing whom Boje (in his capacity as editor of a literary magazine) knew as well and he quotes from Lessing's heartbroken letter to Luise, and they both agree that this is the worst fate.

But to return to happier things. Now the correspondence doesn't contain every letter, sometimes one got lost, and sometimes the editor decides we wouldn't be interested and just sums it up. Alas this happens when Boje first visits Copenhagen and comes across mad King Christian in the royal park which we're told but don't get to read he describes to Luise in detail. Because Boje tries to get a job from Bernstorff for a while and befriends the family beyond that, there are occasonal comments from both Boje and Luise on Danish events. Struensee is already dead and executed when the correspondence starts, but Luise is definitely Team Caroline Matilda and when Boje reports that CM's son has reached his majority and takes over, essentially deposing his half uncle, Juliana's son, and Guldberg, as well as Juliana, there is much rejoicing from both her and Boje, plus Luise describes the creation of the monument in memory of Caroline Matilda which you can see today. Now, this is obviously a big contrast with how Lehndorff in Prussia thinks she's yet another MESSALINA, but the explanation is obvious: Luise is from Hannover, whose Prince Elector happens to be King G3 of Britain, CM's brother, and CM spent her last few years on Hannover territory. Where she was very popular. (BTw, G3 also has his second son, the Duke of York, living in Hannover through most of the correspondence years, and at first I was confused because Luise refers to him mostly as "the Bishop". This is because said son has the Hannover family inheritable bishopry of Osnabrück. Luise describes "the Bishop" as so popular in Hannover that people wouldn't be sad at all if the Prince of Wales (future G4) dies and "their" guy becomes King. (Doesn't this sound familiar.) (BTW, as it is, York didn't get old and died many years before the Prince Regent, future G4 would.)

But the excerpts I'll give you don't concern any of this. They're Boje and Luise reacting to THE bestseller of 1784. Note: Gleim is a German poet who actually served in the 7 Years War and was a hardcore Fritz fan.

Boje on November 28th 1784: Yesterday I wasn't in a mood to write, but was busy with the "Mémoires de Voltaire" which were sent to me from Hamburg, and as much as I was infuriated by a lot in them, I couldn't stop reading. It's undoubtedly written by him, at least I don't know anyone who could imitate his style so perfectly. May God save every man from having such a friend and companion. Much of what he writes about the King of Prussia may be true, and fits with similar anecdotes known to me. But did Voltaire have to preserve this knowledge for posterity? Friedrich isn't even the man he used to be in his youth anymore, and back then he was mainly seduced by French buffoons. And how such a Frenchman looks on all foreigners as barbarians! Gleim won't be able to sleep for eight days once he reads the "Mémoires".

Luise on December 3rd 1784: The "Mémoires de Voltaire" aren't available here yet, but the anecdotes from them are already talked about aplenty. Once Fritz Stolberg reads it, he'll rant about the French even more, and yet all nations include bitchy Voltaire types. If Zimmermann had been the friend of the King, he would avenge himself in exactly the same manner, but since he doesn't have Voltaire's genius, the malice would only express itself in rough rudeness. I'm sorry, dear Boje, but with the years my enthusiasm for great men has very much lessened. I would have liked the deception to continue, but since it has ended for me, I love people in general even more, don't demand extraordinary things from them and notice goodness much more than I used to.

Comments from me on this contempary reaction to Voltaire's memoirs: when Boje clarifies they're really from Voltaire, this refers to the habit of fake memoir publishing after a celebrity has died which we in Salon have come across more than once, see also Austrian Trenck and Eugene memoirs not by Trenck and Eugene. Note that unlike many a fervent Fritz fan, he doesn't call Voltaire a dirty liar and on the contrary says that yes, sounds like Fritz, alright; his problem is with Voltaire going into print with these stories. (But he couldn't put down the trash talking anyway, evidently, finding it compulsive reading.) His argument that King Fritz is now a very different person and that young Fritz was only thus because he was seduced by "französische Witzlinge" says something about Fritz' succesful image crafting and is of course a dig at Voltaire himself. (Voltaire being the most prominent French "Witzling" of them all.) "Looking down on all other nations as barbarians" isn't really something you can accuse Voltaire of. He has his biases (see also: Turks, and Muslims in general), but the whole point of Voltaire's "Letters from England" was to praise British law and British social circumstances in favour of French ones (thus urging the French to reform), he's a life long dispenser of sarcasm on his own nation in addition to everyone else, and I don't think the Memoirs have a "aren't we French so much better" attitude. (They definitely paint FW as a barbarian, of course, and Fritz as a highly cultured thug.)

I'm also plenty amused that Luise thinks Zimmermann in Voltaire's place would have reacted exactly the same way to a Fritz breakup, just without the verbal genius. (Reminder this is two years before Fritz' death, so Zimmermann hasn't published yet either his first book about how he was treating a dying Fritz nor the next one with the broken penis theory, and evidently while he has met Fritz already, he hasn't yet convinced everyone who knows him that they are bffs.) She has reason for doing so - earlier the same year, Zimmermann threw a terrible tantrum just because a letter to another Dr. Zimmermann ended with him by mistake, because the post guys should have known him from all other Zimmermanns, this despite the fact they apologized - , but I get a kick of how indignant Zimmermann would be at the compmarison!

Re: 18th Century Letters from non celebrities on Salon relevant matters

[mildred_of_midgard]

Only quick notes, but the whole thing was interesting and informative as always!

back then he was mainly seduced by French buffoons.

Glasow: you can accuse me of many things, but being French is not one of them.

evidently while he has met Fritz already

Yes, per Blanning, he has:

After his first encounter with his hero in 1771 he left the room in floods of tears, exclaiming, “Oh, my love for the King of Prussia is beyond words!”

But he couldn't put down the trash talking anyway, evidently, finding it compulsive reading.

Well, it is!

Fritz as a highly cultured thug.

I still love the modern Polish historian's description of him as "that thinking man's thug."

Robert Keith

[mildred_of_midgard]

Since I need a break from wrestling handwriting, I decided to give you this beautifully written letter in English from one Robert Keith.

No, not not!Robert. An actual Robert Keith. I don't in fact know how he's related to any of the other Keiths, I just know that he is. He's a Brit, and apparently the Keith clan sticks together even after some of them have been living abroad for generations. You'll recognize some Keith and non-Keith names in this.

(There may be typos from transcribing fast and not checking my work, but I've tried to "sic" the spellings that look most suspiciously like typos but are in the original.)

Dearest Friend,

Nothing could have caused me more pleasure than your most kind letter did, provided you had not had the cause of informing me of the melancholy news of your brother's death; my late dear companion, correspondent, friend and relation: dear friend, give me leave to sincerely sypathize [sic] with you on our common loss.

You are so obliging as to assure me, that I have the same share of friendship in your family as ever, I am greatly obliged to you for this fresh assurance thereof and beg you will be perfectly persuaded, that my constant study shall alwise be, how to deserve it's prolongation: pray forgive me, if in the middle of this letter, I beg your being so good as to make my most respectful complement's to Mrs. Keith, to Baron Knyphausen, Mr. and Mrs. Hertzberg, in short, to the whole family.

Mr. Wake seems so very deserving of your friendship, that I should not be worthy being reckoned amongst your friends, were I neglectful, in showing him so much of mine, as possible; rest therefore satisfied, that everything that lyes in my feeble power shall be at his commands.

Dear friend, both our tempers, inclinations, &c. appeared to me so uniform when we were togather [sic], (you see I have no contemptible opinion of myself, by this comparison) and our reciprocal affections so strongly cemented, that it was out of the power, even of long absence, to change either of us: give me leave to confirm what I have just now been writing, but assuring you, I am alwise the same without any difference on my part & am perfectly persuaded of your steadiness on yours.

You desire me, to give you an account how I go on in this great and dear Metropolis &c. but by your obliging letter, I find that Sir Andrew Mitchell has been in part beforehand with me, with respect to my behavior &c. on which topic, you are very sensible, my modesty would have hindered my touching upon: for which piece of service, I am very much obliged to him & flatter myself, that my further conduct, will continue to deserve such a concession form him my real wellwisher & patron, as well as from the rest of my friends, as he has been so good as to mention to you, and to Mylord Marishall, from whom, I have just now been honour'd with a letter, togather with a present of the late Field-Marshal's sword: for which I have returned his Lordship a letter of thank's and must beg you'll be so kind as to remember me to him, when ever you find an opportunity. you are now in full expectation of finding me proceeding, either to answer your request in giving an account of my present situation in the army (but indeed you know it already), in London &c. or secondly in drawing near the end of this long letter; how, will you be surprised, when you find yourself entirely disapointed [sic] in both particulars? for I am afraid of entering into the former, for fear of it's bringing this letter to too great a lethth [sic], wherefore, must desire you'll excuse me till my next letter to you, which shall not be long, provided you be as diligent in answer this, as I have been in respect to yours; for I hope you are perfectly convinced, that to hear from you & of your welfare, is as great a happiness as I can experience: and as for the latter, I must desire your patience a little longer; to proceed, I must desire you will be so good as to make my comp^ts to all my acquaintences [sic], that are so kind as to ask after me; amongst these, I may with pleasure reckon Mr. Baudouin & should be very glad to hear from you, some news about him: he has been so favourable to me, as to say, that I understand the French language perfectly, I must own, I am very fond of it, but will not say master of it, as for the German tongue, I have not forgot it, but am not so fluent in it as formerly; but shall take care not to forget it, as it may be of so great service to me in case of a War. You see dear friend, I write to you in English & assure you, I expect (according to your promise) you will do the same to me; in hopes of it's being soon done. give me leave to remain
Dearest Friend

Your most Humbel [sic] and
Obedient Brother & Friend
Robert Keith

London,
October the 18th
1766

P.S. I take the freedom of sending this (together with a letter for Mylord Marischall, for fear his Lordship has not received my last) under cover to Sir Andrew Mitchell, as the surest method for their coming to hand. You have not been so kind, as to send me your derection [sic] &&. mine you will find on the other side of this sheet.

To
____________
at the Rvd. Mr. des Champs, in Broad Street, the corner of Poland Street
Golden Square,
London

The letter is addressed to "Charles Keith, Esq. etc.", i.e. Karl Ernst, son of Peter.

Now, as I mentioned, I've gotten various dates for his brother Friedrich Ludwig's death, but his burial record says 1764. So since Robert says he found out promptly, Robert only found out about Friedrich Ludwig's death 2 years later.

Here's my headcanon as to what happened:

- Peter maintained contacts with British Keiths after returning to Prussia.

- Peter taught his kids English/encouraged them to learn English. (I'm sure this didn't help with Fritz's opinion that the Brits regarded Peter as half a Briton.)

- Peter's sons return from university to Berlin in 1763.

- Young Robert Keith either went on the Grand Tour, ca 1763-1764 with letters of introduction that allowed him to meet his relatives Karl Ernst and Friedrich Ludwig, or else he was present in Berlin in some more official/professional capacity. Either way, his time on the Continent gave him a chance to improve his French and German.

- One day, in 1766, Robert decides to write to his old friend/relative Friedrich Ludwig.

- Robert gets a letter from Karl Ernst informing him that Friedrich Ludwig has died.

Of course, it could have happened many other ways, but that's how I put the pieces together. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this letter! (Really, everyone should just write "as you know, Bob" letters, for the sake of future historians. :P)

Reminder to cahn that not only are the Keiths descended from a Scot who moved abroad ca. 1600, and of course Lord Marischal and Field-Marschal Keith were themselves born in Scotland and Jacobite exiles, Andrew Mitchell was also a Scot.

Also: des Champs cameo!

ETA: It occurs to me that there's Robert Baronet Keith, who was born in London in 1715, became ADC to Fritz, married Suhm's daughter in 1751, Wikipedia tells me he entered Danish service, and I seem to remember Suhm's daughter dying either in Denmark or northern Germany, I forget. But I don't think this Robert would be living in London and forgetting his German? I could be wrong, though. It would at least explain him knowing French and German despite being British! :P

Oh, interesting, I just looked through an old post and saw that Preuss said Fritz granted Robert permission to marry Suhm's daughter at the request of Field Marshal Keith. So if he was still living in Prussia in 1763, moved to London, then moved to Denmark after 1766 but before his death in 1771, it could work. And it would explain him getting the sword of Field Marshal Keith.

It would not explain why a man born in 1715 is writing to a man born in 1743 as "brother": I was going with "Grand Tour" on the assumption Robert was the same generation as Karl Ernst and Friedrich Ludwig. He's also too young to be the son of Robert Baronet, husband of Suhm's daughter: Wikipedia tells me the two did in fact have a son named Robert, but born in 1752, after their 1751 marriage, so he would only be 14 when writing this letter.

Seriously, Robert. "As you know, Charles Keith, I am 24 years old, I'm your third cousin twice removed, and your mother introduced us when I visited Berlin in 1763, because your father met my father in the 1730s." Would that be so hard? :PP

I suppose it would leave us detectives less to do.

Not that we detectives are really hurting for things to do right now...

Re: Robert Keith

[selenak]

Keiths are truly everywhere. BTW, I seem to recall from my recent reading of the hagiographic Charles Hanbury Williams biography that the British ambassador at Vienna who was too soft on MT in the British pov (at least according to the CHW biographer) which is why after his great "success" with Fritz they wanted H-W to replace him and tell MT who's boss was a Robert Keith as well? (Age-wise, that still means the one in Vienna should be a contemporary of Peter rather than of his sons.)

Peter taught his kids English/encouraged them to learn English. (I'm sure this didn't help with Fritz's opinion that the Brits regarded Peter as half a Briton.

Reminder that when Lehndorff falls for Charles Hotham Jr. and considers emigrating, he also joins a group of like minded gentlemen who are learning English. Given his great sympathy for Peter, I could imagine Peter volunteered for teaching such a class, but more to the point, the royal taste in literature and the arts not withstanding, there is apparantly enough interest in Berlin good society to learn English even in this generation, and historic events (the Diplomatic Revolution, the American Revolution with all those Germans fighting on both sides) would only have heightened interest in this by the time Peter's sons come of age.

I wish I had a copy of Boswell's German diaries of my own (back in the day I loaned one from the Stabi), because I think he must have met every Scot there was in Berlin in 1764, and that might have included more Keiths than just the Lord Marischal...

Fritz to Karl Ernst

[mildred_of_midgard]

I can only approve of the career you have chosen, according to your letter yesterday. It has distinct attractions for a man of birth, who joins talents and enough wealth to support it. I am therefore quite ready to associate you with those destined for the Ambassadors abroad, and I grant you for this purpose the title of My Chamberlain, attached to My Department of Foreign Affairs. I have also already given my orders to the latter, to send you the certificate, and therefore have no doubt that you will make every effort to make yourself more and more skilful at the post you aspire to. May God keep you in his holy and worthy keeping.

Potsdam ce 14 de fevrier
1772
Federic

That is...a lot nicer than the letter about why Peter would make a terrible ambassador! I mean, we knew that, because one got the job and one didn't, but...kind of interesting that Peter has insufficient money to be an ambassador in 1747 and his wife has very little money in 1750, which is all going to the education of their sons, but in 1772 Keith Jr. has enough money to make a go of a career as an ambassador. I guess those maternal Knyphausen relatives (and in-laws, like Hertzberg) must be coming in handy, either directly for money or indirectly for connections that lead to lucrative opportunities, or both). But there was also "he has no idea of what it is to negotiate" about Peter, which apparently doesn't apply here either!

P.S. As a reminder, we learned long ago that "May God keep you in his holy and worthy keeping" is a sign a secretary wrote the letter. I can now add that so is the handwriting and spelling. :P Which is why you're getting this sooner than more intrinsically interesting material.

Peter's mother to Fritz

[mildred_of_midgard]

Meant to get this out earlier today, but...dating happened! (Possibly Fritz/Peter dating in the other sense of the word too, though pun not intended. :P)

This is from the Prussian order of last month, the one that was rudely interrupted by back pain. The handwriting isn't that bad, and I know if I were fluent in German this would have been easy.

...I'm not fluent in German, so here's the text with some brackets, Xs, ?s, and no doubt mistakes!

Allerdürchlaüchtigster [p p]

Er. Königl. Majestät lege mich mit gegenwärtig[em] in tiefster Üntertanigkeit zü füßen, flehende Meinem aller de-
müthigsten A[ntr?]it in Gnaden anzüsehen, Ich werde von unterschiedlichen Leuten dieses [O]rts in die äüßerste bekümmernis
gesetzt, welche sich rühmen die gewisse Nachricht zü haben, daß mein Söhn in Engeland dürch des schwerd wäre hinge-
richtet worden. Weil [nür] dieses Spargement mir als eine ihn zartlich liebende Mutter, wie ein scharfes schwerdt
durch die Seele dringt ünd ich zugleich [Weinen] muss, dafür mich werde einige Gewissheit des beliebten [Nachsten?]
[d?]es zu [erse?]hen, so [nehme] in der allerlie[b]sten Submission meine Züflücht zu Er. Majestät Gnade, hoffend ver-
möge derselben von Meine Sohnes Tod oder Leben benachrichtiget zü werden. Mein ängst und Kümmer-volles
Hertz dringet mich, geg[enwä]rtiges zü Er. Majestät füßen zü legen; da ich ohnedem ein der bel[ie?]btesten
Witwen auch der Welt bin, welche von allen ünd jeden verfolget, ünd stetiges processi[ren] aüßer
BX[d?] gesetzet wird.

Wenn derselben Er. K. Maj. zü allen denen mir bereits geschehnen Gnaden Bezeignügen, diese hohe
Gnade noch hinzu thü[en?] wolten, ünd mir eine Dienst bey Eu. Maj. unsern gnädigsten Königin
schenken, damit doch die Zeit meiner Lebens Tage bX[d?] hätte, ünd von dem M[an?]gel gesichert bliebe, Solcher
allerhochsten Königl.-X[ä]lde würde mich dürch meiner Unterthänigst getreüsten dienste würdig machen ünd
Lebenslang mit der allertiefster Submission ünd hochsten Dank erkennen, die ich p p

allerdürchlaüchtigster p p
ünterthänigst getreuste
Magd.
Witwe von Kaiten.

Poberow den 23 Augusti 1740

Der König ließ ihr antworten: es wäre an den Gerücht nichts daran.

"BXd" is driving me crazy; it's the same word both times. All I can think is "Brod" for "Brot", but you guys tell me.

"p.p." I only know thanks to Dirk the podcaster--apparently the Brits and Germans use this Latin phrase, but even classically educated Americans don't!

So, content: I knew about this already, as Preuss summarizes the letter, but I wasn't sure if it was the same letter I was ordering based on Kloosterhuis's summary: "His brother Peter, whose fate Keith's mother Vigilantia had reminded King Frederick II of in a plea of August 23, 1740."

That is not how I would describe that letter, Kloosterhuis! Preuss's summary was far more accurate. Preuss also comments that the request to solve her financial problems by going into the Queen's service was ignored.

Well, Vigilantia, soon your son will be back and you can commiserate over being ignored together. (I hope she managed a trip to Berlin to give him a hug or whatever it was that family did. Poor woman!)

Also, note: August 1740, Katte's dad, recently promoted to Field Marshal, gets made a count. August 1740, Peter's mom gets ignored when she asks to serve EC.

Fritz: Have you *met* EC? I was doing the woman a favor. :P

More seriously, I can only imagine how Peter took this Keith/Katte family comparison. I think that part of my fic was accurate. :(

(The wish-fulfillment part where Fritz and Peter kissed and made up in the 50s, which I found highly implausible even at the time...may have been the only accurate part amidst a plethora of details that turned out to be chronologically wrong? Ha!)

Re: Peter's mother to Fritz

[selenak]

Well, Peter‘s and Lehndorff‘s friendship is chronologically right, too. :)

Also, note: August 1740, Katte's dad, recently promoted to Field Marshal, gets made a count. August 1740, Peter's mom gets ignored when she asks to serve EC.

Which is before Peter is back and can actually do something to alienate Fritz one way or the other. That actually, to me, confirms my theory that the Peter treatment is mostly caused by Fritz having Dad‘s rants about how he‘s gonna be a King ruled by his favourites in his ear and wants to prove FW wrong. This is not an issue with Katte and his Dad, because a) Katte is dead, and b) Hans Heinrich has been promoted and distinguished under FW already. He‘s got a good life long career in service to the Prussian state. No one can claim that Fritz promotes him solely to do his boyfriend a favour.

Whereas Peter is very much alive, has, as far as anyone knows in 1740 Prussia, distinguished himself in nothing but deserting and being condemned in public, if in absentia, without even the brave death full of proclaimed Protestant faith factor that made even FW swing wildly between extremes when it came to Katte in the winter of 1730/1731, you know, between that outburst re: English sympathies (would kill him a thousand times) and the „exemplarly young man, shame Fritz caused his death“ comments both reported by Guy Dickens). In short, from FW minded Prussia’s pov, Peter is exactly the kind of „bad influence no good friend“ FW predicted would rule Fritz, and FW didn‘t just predict this in 1730, he ranted about Fritz as late as early 1739 AT LEAST as we know from the letters between Fritz and Wilhelmine. Giving Peter‘s mother - who is on her own merits minor provincial nobility, no one important - a place with his wife would undoubtedly have been read by even well minded observers as a signal that Peter could be the returning and up and coming favourite, and we know how paranoid Fritz is about signalling he and only he will rule.

Reminder how everyone thought Caesarion/Keyserlingk would be the almighty favourite for a few months in 1740 simply because Fritz so visibly enjoyed his company. No one thought there would not be a favourite. Also, despite Fritz‘ announcements in 1733 on that subject, I don‘t think in 1740 people were already assuming he would never live together with EC again. They might not have thought Fritz was actually in love with her, but in August 1740, everyone including EC herself undoubtedly thought that once all the moving and readjusting to the new positions was over, they would live together as they had done in Rheinsberg. Meaning that lady-in-waiting to the Queen would be considered an important position and a high mark of favour, not the somewhat predictable career death sentence chamberlain to the Queen turned out to be for Lehndorff a few years later.

In conclusion, this action before Fritz has seen Peter again and has any idea about what Peter is like after ten years apart does make it clear, imo, his behavior isn‘t about Peter, it‘s about FW and his public image and his determination to show his dead father and the public that they‘ve all been wrong about him.

I‘ll have a go at a translation in a separate comment.

New icon

[cahn]

So, uh, instead of catching up on salon, I spent a nontrivial amount of time today figuring out what tools there were to making gifs so I could make this particular icon that I have been wanting to make for SOME TIME NOW :D even though it is only relevant to... one other person in salon? (felis, maybe you are also a B5 fan?)

Backstory for those who are not selenak : in Babylon 5, there is a character, Londo Mollari (who is one of selenak's favorites and whom I also love a lot), who is among other qualities nobody's fool, and at one point he says to another character, "Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts." He then goes on to say, "Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts," which is what is actually going on with the other character and their government at that point in time, but I was still laughing really hard about that line and imagining Fritz looking really shifty-eyed... :)

Re: New icon

[cahn]

I also have the text a little larger (but I had to split it up). I think I like the former one better but I thought I'd show you guys both :)

Jane Barker, Jacobite and author of femslash

[luzula]

I am impressed by all the original research you guys are doing! : D Meanwhile, have a book review.

A Patch-Work Screen for the Ladies by Jane Barker (1723)
Jane Barker (1652–1732) was an author and a Jacobite who converted to Catholicism and followed James II into exile and lived at St Germain until 1704. She learned Latin, anatomy, and herbal medicine from her brother who had gone to university, and she never married. Besides novels, she apparently also wrote a collection of poems about education for women and female single life. Also she managed a farm.

This novel is similar to other 18th century novels I've read in that it has a frame story and various digressions. It is a sequel to a previous book which I might read at some point (Love Intrigues). The frame story in this case has a lot of similarities to Barker's own life: the older narrator, Galesia, is in the previous book walking in the garden at St Germain and retelling adventures of her young life where she was courted by a man (Bosvil) who proved false. In the present book, she is traveling in England, telling and listening to various stories with fellow travellers. Later on Galesia has an accident and ends up at the house of some lady and retells her own earlier life after the incident with Bosvil (which has given her a lifelong distaste for marriage) with lots of digressions, side stories, poems, and narrow escapes from marriage.

The most interesting of the side stories is a woman who leaves her husband for love of a servant woman. It is called ‘The Unaccountable Wife’ and the woman portrayed as unreasonable--she would rather beg for money in the street and stay with her servant woman, than leave her and get a pension from the queen (the husband is dead at this point). But the unreasonableness seems to be as much about inversion of social station as about gender, I think--much stress is laid on how highborn the wife is and how weird it is that she is doing housework for the servant. Her husband at first sleeps with the servant woman and gets children on her, but the wife was 'extremely kind to the woman, to a degree unheard of' and they 'lay all three together every night'. Then the husband, trying to put a stop to the wife's attachment, tries to send the servant away, but the wife goes with her instead... : D

In Galesia’s own story, I enjoyed most the parts where she is learning medicine from her brother (like Barker herself!) and rhapsodizing on anatomy in poems. She takes such delight in it! Later on when she is living in London, she also apparently practices medicine, at least among her acquaintances, and there is a proud poem On the Apothecaries Filing My Recipes Amongst the Doctors':

The Sturdy Gout, which all Male Power withstands,
Is overcome by my soft Female Hands,
Not Deb’rah, Judith, or Semiramis,
Cou’d boast of Conquest half so great as this

Re: Jane Barker, Jacobite and author of femslash

[selenak]

Now that's a delightful poem! And the femslash one is intriguing. How does it end, is the wife punished by fate or does she get a happy ending with her servant? And do we ever find out what the servant woman thinks of all this?

Bosvil, him? I know Boswell the biographer had a cousin Miss Bosville, so it's an actual Scottish name. But I don't think there were any Jacobite Boswells, either false or real. :) (I mean, Boswell's Dad Alexander was no fan of Team Hannover, either, but he loathed the Stuarts.)

TV Take On 18th Century Imperial Marriage Counselling

[selenak]

Guys, I've watched the latest take on Marie Antoinette, a British-French coproduction tv series. I may or may not do a proper review post - it's neither really good nor really bad, just mediocre, though they were able to use both Versailles and Fontaineblau, and the costumes are great, so there's that -, but I wanted to share this for now: it's an eight episode season (the first of three planned seasons, I hear), and in episode 7, titled "Deus ex Machina" (which cracks me up), Joseph arrives in Versailles as the world's least likely 18th Century Dr. Ruth-plus-Marriage Councillor, thus finally enabling Louis and Marie Antoinette to have proper sex. Now, this is a series which likes to add some extra drama to everything ('cause it's not like MA's life had enough of that, right?), so Joseph arrives literally in the nick of time, annulment negotiations have already started. Apparantly the director and scriptwriter realized a part of their audience might wonder whether going back to Vienna at this point wouldn't be preferable to "Toinette". (And it was only then that it occured to me that Joseph's giving Louis The Talk might have improved his sister's marriage and enabled her to have children, but he could also have indadvertendly have condemned her to death, because if the marriage had been dissolved, then of course MA might have survived the French Revolution.) So the series heightens the stakes by diclaring the French wouldn't let MA return to Vienna post annulment, she'd be forced to enter a convent instead.

Now, that's rubbish. I mean, there's precedent - Philippe II. Auguste did that to his first wife, I believe, and also Louis XII - but those were different (medieval) times. Louis XVI wasn't that kind of jerk. MT and Joseph wouldn't have stood for it, either. (Not just out of familial sentiment - MA at this point was just 21 years old and eminently marriagable.) And why would Louis' ministers come up with such an idea? The script can't come up with anything better than MA being told "she knows too much" to be allowed to leave France, which is ridiculous. But anyway, so the stakes aren't just kids and the French/Austrian alliance but MA not ending up in a convent. Then someone must have thought Joseph just explaining stuff would come across as somewhat anticlimactic, no pun intended. So what happens in the tv show is that after having observed super shy Louis and MA aren't currently talking to each other (earlier plot point in addition to the bad non-sex, don't ask), Joseph literally and in the modern sense plays marriage guidance counsellor by locking himself up in a pavillon with them and making them talk to each other and to him. And of course it needs more than one session of this to get to the route of the problem. Then someone on the French part of the production team must have said "but we can't have a German-Austrian having to explain to A FRENCH KING OF THE HOUSE BOURBON how sex works, that's just not on, no one would believe this!", so Joseph instead advises Louis to, wait for it, go to a prostitute so she can do the instructing in how to pleasure a woman. After MA has agreed he should, that's what Louis does. It works, too!

Meanwhile, reminder that the third season of the MT series has FS do (well attempt to do) this with Joseph himself before the Isabella marriage, and it goes completly wrong and helps no one. Methinks English-French scriptwriters are more optimistic about learning how to have proper sex from a prostitute if you're a high strung nervous male virgin...

I have to say, though, the Joseph & Marie Antoinette relationship depicted in this episode is delightful and a breath of fresh air because the Bourbons have been a dysfunctional cesspit through the season, with Louis' brother (he just has one in this show, unlike rl when he had two) constantly belittling and humiliating him and making fun of him and everyone scheming against young MA, so Joseph and MA having a somewhat Know-it-all big brother/ somewhat rebellious little sister but both very fond with and relaxed with each other relationship is a great contrast.

....and I'M still tickled they called the Joseph visit episode "Deus ex Machina".

Re: TV Take On 18th Century Imperial Marriage Counselling

[mildred_of_midgard]

Then someone on the French part of the production team must have said "but we can't have a German-Austrian having to explain to A FRENCH KING OF THE HOUSE BOURBON how sex works, that's just not on, no one would believe this!"

Hahaha, this whole thing is great but especially this!

I have to say, though, the Joseph & Marie Antoinette relationship depicted in this episode is delightful and a breath of fresh air because the Bourbons have been a dysfunctional cesspit through the season

Well, that checks out, right? I recall feeling sorry for young future Louis XVI...

....and I'M still tickled they called the Joseph visit episode "Deus ex Machina".

Hee!

Royal souvenirs

[mildred_of_midgard]

Slowly trying to catch up on my backlog of non-Peter posts...

I've been periodically dipping into the book I mentioned a while ago, Monarchy, Myth, and Material Culture in Germany 1750-1950, the one about collecting royal souvenirs. I'm not really here for the scholarly sociological analysis, but I am *totally* here for the anecdotes.

Friedrich Wilhelm IV's response to the relic-gifts was ambivalent at best, and he often rejected these tokens of sympathy and affection. In some cases, the king refused the gifts because they crossed the line of good taste. In 1851, Adolf Zuckwer offered Friedrich Wilhelm IV a "family heirloom": the executioner's sword used to behead Hans Hermann von Katte for trying to help the young Frederick escape his father's court in 1730. To Zuckwer, it was an object of great "historical value" and family pride. To the king, it harbored too many unpleasant associations: not only did the sword mark one of the darkest, most distressing periods in Frederick's life, but the allusion to decapitation - a specter that had haunted Friedrich Wilhelm IV only three years earlier in 1848 – would not have gone unnoticed (at least by the king). And finally, it was surely unpalatable to the king to accept the largess of an executioner's son, reviled as that profession was. In this instance, Friedrich Wilhelm IV did not even attempt to be polite in rejecting the gift.

No quotes on what "did not even attempt to be polite" means, but the author is very good about citations, having ~100 footnotes per chapter, and she's quoting letters from the Prussian state archives here, so I will take her word for it.

So once upon a time, we learned that Fritz had to stop playing the flute in the late 1770s because of tooth loss, and I wondered why he didn't use false teeth, since they had definitely been invented (any American schoolchild knows about George Washington). Well, this anecdote proves that he did at least use false teeth, and tells us more about how he was losing his teeth in the late 1770s:

In Dr. Kuntzmann's case, the problem lay not in his personal background, but in the relics' intimate nature. The son of Frederick's dentist, Kuntzmann possessed two fake teeth that had graced the philosopher-king's mouth. As in other questions of hygiene, Frederick was notorious for his poor dental health; already in 1759, he complained to the Marquis d'Argens that he was missing half his teeth. Kuntzmann's false teeth, however, had filled a gap created not by decay, but by the king's violent passion for music. In 1777, the king had dropped a sheet of music while playing the flute. Bending down quickly to pick it up, Frederick had hit his head against the music stand and knocked out a front tooth. Kuntzmann's father had fashioned a tooth for him at that point, which was itself knocked out two years later in what Kuntzmann tactfully called "a very similar accident." Kuntzmann Sr. crafted a second fake tooth, which was returned to him , however, as it proved defective. Kuntzmann Jr. now sent the two teeth, in a jar, to Friedrich Wilhelm IV.

I didn't realize he'd had the ironic fate of not being able to play the flute in part because he had lost teeth while playing the flute! (I wouldn't be surprised if they were already loose at that point and that contributed to the accident.) Related, I also vaguely recall a riding accident in the 1740s or 1750s, where (I think) Wilhelmine advised AW to show some concern, it would make Fritz feel better.

This next part made me laugh:

In the late eighteenth century, J. F. Krieger, director of a royal demesne in Halberstadt, began collecting all images of Frederick the Great that passed his way, from frontispieces of monographs and engravings in hymn books to advertisements on tobacco wrappers and decks of playing cards, until his collection numbered in the thousands of images.

Mildred: Seems normal.

In the later nineteenth century, Krieger's passion would come to seem natural, in no way out of the ordinary; in the late eighteenth century, Krieger's forty year pursuit of "every picture with Frederick's visage, whether masterpiece or grimace (Fratze)," was still unusual enough that he had to excuse his hobby by styling it as an act of piety.

Mildred: Hahaha, well, THAT'S gonna change! :D

For example:

...two relics that Ledebur had formerly described as the alpha and omega of his collection: the box containing Frederick's umbilical cord and the cloth that wiped the sweat of death off his brow. In his "Wanderung" of 1833, Ledebur had described these "gems" as prompting a “moving empathy" in the viewer. Later, they would again elicit rapturous emotions from visitors to the Hohenzollern Museum.

In contrast, poor Heinrich gets short shrift:

In some cases, the objects were not even given the veneer of art or heirloom by the royal sellers. In 1804, Prince Heinrich's entire estate (furniture, bed sheets, and all) was auctioned off unceremoniously to the highest bidder, with the objects' prices set according to their practical value, not their symbolic import as having belonged to Frederick the Great's brother.

If I come across more fun anecdotes in my occasional dipping in, I'll pass them on!

Re: Royal souvenirs

[selenak]

Speaking as someone who has spent the last few months reading a lot about the 1848 Revolution: FW4 was a reactionary jerk of the first order who once he got the upper hand again thought nothing of literally showing the sole Jewish members of the Prussian parliament coming to him his backside and tell him to kiss his ass, you may well believe he wasn't polite to Zuckwer.


the box containing Frederick's umbilical cord and the cloth that wiped the sweat of death off his brow.

...okay, Fritz-as-Jesus is something I haven't seen even from 19th century fans. Seriously, this is straight of a medieval relics playbook, complete with the fact these are bound to be forgeries, because come on, why should anyone keep the umbilical cord when Fritz was born? (Especially since the two male kids born before him both died as babies, and there was no guarantee this would not happen again.)

Heinrich's possessions being all auctioned off to the highest bidder I knew about, because that actually turned out to be a great benefit for posterity - there was a very detailed list including each item, how it looked like and where it had been placed in Rheinsberg, so when Rheinsberg got finally restored after having served as a sanatorium in the GDR, that was a primary source for the restauration. (Which is why with the exception of two rooms - Fritz' study and the big room with the "rising of the sun/son" painting - Rheinsberg looks like it did in Heinrich's time today.)

Fritz as foreign minister

[mildred_of_midgard]

So remember when I was surprised that Fritz repaid the Russian loans he got via Suhm so very quickly after his accession? Turns out he did the same with the British loans, and here's why:

The new tone of Prussian diplomacy was immediately evident in the repayment of loans made by Britain. While crown prince at the end of the 1730s...[Frederick's] uncle, Britain's George II, had -- albeit grudgingly -- forwarded substantial sums to Berlin: around £12,500 seems to have been sent to the crown prince in the final eighteen months of Frederick William I's life. London's motive was political rather than charitable: the king and his ministers hoped that, upon his own accession, Frederick would be grateful and that this gratitude would be apparent in an improvement in Anglo-Prussian relations, which had been distant and at times acrimonious during the 1730s. The expectation of British ministers was clearly that these 'loans' would not be redeemed, although they were expected to yield a diplomatic dividend. To their surprise, and to the consternation of Britain's representative in Berlin, Guy Dickens, they were repaid in full and apparently in cash less than a fortnight after Frederick's accession.

I did not realize the loans were made in hopes they *wouldn't* be paid back, and the prompt payback was making a point. That also explains why it took so long in comparison for Prince Liechtenstein (into the 1770s, as I recall); Fritz wasn't worried about him having too much influence on Prussian diplomacy.

I got this from H.M. Scott's "Prussia's royal foreign minister: Frederick the Greatand the administration of Prussian diplomacy", an essay in Royal and Republican Sovereignty in Early Modern Europe: Essays in Memory of Ragnhild Hatton (the book where I learned that Isabel de Madariaga can take a dry-seeming topic and make it an interesting read).

Scott's a Fritz fan, noticeable by the standards of modern Brits, although nothing by the standards of 19th century Germans, of course. What I found most interesting about his article was that I'm apparently used to revisionist history in modern works, because when I read him saying that the traditional view has always been that Fritz dominated Prussia's foreign policy with an iron fist to the exclusion of his ministers, I was expecting an article introducing nuance by showing how much his ministers actually contributed.

Nope! The opposite. His "revisionism" is challenging the view that this only started in the late months of 1740, when the Silesian invasion was being planned, by presenting evidence that all the ministers were kept in the dark starting in June, just days after Fritz's accession. He quotes tons of primary sources to the effect of "And then this happened, and the diplomats had no idea what was going," and "By this date, Podewils was already a glorified messenger," and so forth. It was kind of darkly hilarious.

He has some details I didn't know, like the fact that Fritz's announcement that Prussian diplomats were to correspond with their superiors in French, not German, dates to the second day of Fritz's reign. The news may not have made it to minor provincial nobility in Poberow by August, but apparently the rule started soon! There were exceptions, though:

This was, however, far from universally enforced in Prussian diplomacy. Throughout Frederick's reign, favoured individuals (often from a military background) who knew little or no French were allowed to correspond in German, which seems also to have been extensively used - logically enough for policy in the Reich. See, for one example, the 'Instructions' for Friedrich Sebastian Wunibald Graf von Waldburg-Zeil, who went on a mission to George II when he was at Hanover: these were drawn up in German, dated 10 June 1740, and are in GStPK, Rep. 96.31A.

Also of interest, one advantage of staying in Potsdam instead of Berlin was the ability to send messengers to and from foreign courts without having the message intercepted by ministers and diplomats in Berlin. Now, as Scott points out, it was normal for monarchs to carry on secret correspondence with their diplomats--we all know about Le Secret du Roi, Louis XV's secret diplomacy that sometimes worked at cross-purposes to his official diplomacy--but apparently the difference with Fritz was both the scale at which it operated, and the fact that he rubbed your face in it. You'd see a messenger going by on a horse and be like, "Well, there goes another message to/from Fritz directly. Wonder what it says." :D

It was facilitated by the private courier service which was manned by soldiers (Feldjäger/chasseurs ), operated from Potsdam...and could carry despatches directly and speedily to their destination: without, of course, passing through the Prussian capital.

Then some details on Eichel, who was, apparently, "one of only two people, other than the king, who knew the details of Prussia's state finances and the location of cash reserves in the various funds at the royal disposal."

Mitchell was apparently the *only* diplomat who ever got through to see him. Even his successors, Ludwig Ernst Heinrich Cöper and Theodor Stephan Laspeyres, "were largely hidden from view and always remained mysterious figures. It is revealing that, almost a year after Eichel's death, French diplomats were still ignorant of the very names of his successors."

The footnote reading, "The verdict of Walther Hubatsch, that Podewils 'did not succeed in controlling the youthful Frederick II as he would like to have done' is an understatement of heroic proportions" kind of sums up the whole article.

Re: Fritz as foreign minister

[cahn]

London's motive was political rather than charitable: the king and his ministers hoped that, upon his own accession, Frederick would be grateful and that this gratitude would be apparent in an improvement in Anglo-Prussian relations, which had been distant and at times acrimonious during the 1730s. The expectation of British ministers was clearly that these 'loans' would not be redeemed, although they were expected to yield a diplomatic dividend. To their surprise, and to the consternation of Britain's representative in Berlin, Guy Dickens, they were repaid in full and apparently in cash less than a fortnight after Frederick's accession.

Ohhhh wow! This is why I'm not a politician. Or a king :P

it was normal for monarchs to carry on secret correspondence with their diplomats--we all know about Le Secret du Roi, Louis XV's secret diplomacy that sometimes worked at cross-purposes to his official diplomacy--but apparently the difference with Fritz was both the scale at which it operated, and the fact that he rubbed your face in it. You'd see a messenger going by on a horse and be like, "Well, there goes another message to/from Fritz directly. Wonder what it says." :D

HAHAHAHA. Gosh, Fritz.