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[personal profile] cahn
Not only are these posts still going, there is now (more) original research going on in them deciphering and translating letters in archives that apparently no one has bothered to look at before?? (Which has now conclusively exonerated Fritz's valet/chamberlain Fredersdorf from the charge that he was dismissed because of financial irregularities and died shortly thereafter "ashamed of his lost honor," as Wikipedia would have it. I'M JUST SAYING.)

Re: Peter's mother to Fritz - Translation

Date: 2023-06-28 03:13 pm (UTC)
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
I still think it‘s possible she invented the story of Executed!Peter rumors as a way to remind Fritz of his existence (and of her own, since she does ask for a job with EC).

I still think it's possible too! And I'm glad you proposed that reading, because my unironic self would not have gotten that.

One thing I‘m pretty certain about, though, is that there was no genuine rumor about executed!Peter making the rounds in 1740, simply because I doubt many people outside his immediate family and social circle from 1730 recalled his existence.

The rounds in Europe? No. The rounds in Poberow? It's a small town/village, he's nobility, he grew up there, his mother (and other family?) still live there, I'm sure the locals have *nothing* better to do than gossip about him. I don't know what the population was in in 1740, but Wikipedia tells me it's currently 179, and my impression of extremely small towns/villages is that gossip is eternal. I doubt Vigilantia remembers the local shopkeeper's third son, but I believe the shopkeeper remembers the third son of the lord and lady of the manor!

Furthermore, I *think*--tell me if I'm wrong--you're taking the apparent dislike of the neighbors towards her as a completely separate thing from the lawsuits? I think the most likely source of the lawsuit has to do with the neighbors. Yeah, maybe there's some inheritance dispute in some remote locale that the neighbors may have heard of but are indifferent toward the outcome of, but I strongly suspect there's bad blood because of the way Vigilantia/the Keiths have been acting: either suing the neighbors or behaving in a way that led one of them to sue her.

Remember, the Kattes had lawsuits going in both Königsberg and Brandenberg, the two places where they lived, and Hans Heinrich was very unpopular with the neighbors in Königsberg. And that lawsuit dragged on for years (I still think it's a hell of a coincidence that it ended the same year as the fraternal duel, and that makes me wonder if a bunch of money was at stake thanks to a favorable outcome of the lawsuit).

All of which is to say,

If I were a neigbour of Vigilantia in 1740 and would only know her son fled into exile because of his involvement with Fritz in 1730, I wouldn‘t persecute her, I would seek her favor

Unless you or someone you're siding with had been suing her for the last few years; then it might get personal. I mean, not you personally, we've established that many of the people we meet in salon are not as decent as you, which sometimes makes their motives baffling. ;) But other people. The lawsuits, if they involve locals, actually make this whole story way more plausible to me.

the more likely rumor to develop would be „omg, the other guy from 1730 is surely going to be called back now, no, it‘s already happened and Fritz has promised him his own cabinet job!“, not „remember the other guy from 1730? He just got executed in England!“

True, but much like Fritz/EC, where some people thought his accession was going to end in good things for her and others thought was going to end in divorce, and that was people who had *met* them both and were paid to find out information, rumors can fly in both directions!

…which is why I still favour the explanation she made the entire story up so she has a tactful and not appearing to be reminding him of old debts way of reminding Fritz of old debts (to Peter).

And I still think that this is a fantastically non-confrontational way of doing exactly that, which is the main reason I think it might be true. I'm just not convinced that the reason it's plausible is because that alternative is implausible, when the alternative is that her neighbors in Poberow remember the noble boy who grew up there and briefly made international news, aren't experts on British execution techniques, and are really cheesed off at the family in regards to some lawsuits.

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