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cahnIn the last several months, as anyone who reads this DW knows, mildred_of_midgard and selenak and I have been part of this quite frankly amazing Frederick the Great fandom, and I sort of assumed that the two people in this fandom who actually knew anything, mildred and selenak, were going to write fics for Yuletide, and I (who know nothing except what they've told me in the last several months) was going to awesomely enjoy reading them. In fact, mildred wrote a Fredersdorf fic for selenak's prompt which I betaed, but then mildred's medical issues got bad enough to interfere with her writing fic (making the beta edits would have involved a substantial amount of rewrite), and she wrote a post lamenting she wasn't going to be able to produce any yuletide fic. Meanwhile, I had two fics that I was pretty sure were from selenak, and I thought it would be a shame for her to write us fic and for her not to get any :(
So then mildred and I had this (very paraphrased) conversation (mildred_of_midgard has her own account here, and she has promised to reproduce the actual conversation in comments to this post):
me: You know, we should really write something for selenak! Now that I've read what you wrote about Fredersdorf, I think I could take a stab at her Fredersdorf prompt, if you edited and otherwise helped me out with historical stuff and also if you don't mind it being way more about music than something you would write.
mildred: YES GOD YESand also oh you sweet summer child thinking you know enough to write this. [Mildred was far FAR nicer than this in real life.] For starters, here are 3500 words [really!] of things I know for a fact you don't know about Fredersdorf.
me: ...I was clearly overoptimistic. But I can work with this. Um, also, all the creativity-generating bits of my brain are already being used for my assignment, so can you also come up with an idea for the fic and also answer all my historical questions?
mildred: Sure! While I'm thinking about this, have 2k more words of historical grounding! Ok, and here are some ideas too. In fact, here's a whole plot for you!
me: Great! *writes 4k words of the plot*
mildred and me, more-or-less in unison: You did all the hard parts!
Then mildred fixed all my extensive historical errors and was fortunately able in between various medical woes to add various parts like the entire Wilhelmine subtheme and the entire last scene, and we deleted some of my words, and then I wrote some more paragraphs about music at her request and edited some of her stuff. I estimate that I probably ended up writing ~4.5k of the final fic, and mildred ended up writing ~ 2k of it (does that sound about right?) Of course that does not count the... I have no idea how much historical consultantcy stuff mildred ended up writing in the end, but I imagine it was significantly upwards of 10k :P And of course she wrote the detailed endnotes :D It also does not count all the words written in comments to the google document where we argued things like that Fredersdorf should be more zen than mildred wanted to write him and less zen than I wanted to write him :)
Although mildred and I mostly agreed on things, I had final veto power (and I did wield it a couple of times), so any remaining problems should be thought of as mine :) I'm very curious, though, as to how evident the collaboration was, and how evident the seams were, as I think mildred and I have very different writing styles, but it went through enough editing passes and discussion that I suspect much of the differences got at least somewhat smoothed out?
Counterpoint for Two Flutes
mildred_of_midgard and selenak and I have been part of this quite frankly amazing Frederick the Great fandom, and I sort of assumed that the two people in this fandom who actually knew anything, mildred and selenak, were going to write fics for Yuletide, and I (who know nothing except what they've told me in the last several months) was going to awesomely enjoy reading them. In fact, mildred wrote a Fredersdorf fic for selenak's prompt which I betaed, but then mildred's medical issues got bad enough to interfere with her writing fic (making the beta edits would have involved a substantial amount of rewrite), and she wrote a post lamenting she wasn't going to be able to produce any yuletide fic. Meanwhile, I had two fics that I was pretty sure were from selenak, and I thought it would be a shame for her to write us fic and for her not to get any :(So then mildred and I had this (very paraphrased) conversation (
mildred_of_midgard has her own account here, and she has promised to reproduce the actual conversation in comments to this post):me: You know, we should really write something for selenak! Now that I've read what you wrote about Fredersdorf, I think I could take a stab at her Fredersdorf prompt, if you edited and otherwise helped me out with historical stuff and also if you don't mind it being way more about music than something you would write.
mildred: YES GOD YES
me: ...I was clearly overoptimistic. But I can work with this. Um, also, all the creativity-generating bits of my brain are already being used for my assignment, so can you also come up with an idea for the fic and also answer all my historical questions?
mildred: Sure! While I'm thinking about this, have 2k more words of historical grounding! Ok, and here are some ideas too. In fact, here's a whole plot for you!
me: Great! *writes 4k words of the plot*
mildred and me, more-or-less in unison: You did all the hard parts!
Then mildred fixed all my extensive historical errors and was fortunately able in between various medical woes to add various parts like the entire Wilhelmine subtheme and the entire last scene, and we deleted some of my words, and then I wrote some more paragraphs about music at her request and edited some of her stuff. I estimate that I probably ended up writing ~4.5k of the final fic, and mildred ended up writing ~ 2k of it (does that sound about right?) Of course that does not count the... I have no idea how much historical consultantcy stuff mildred ended up writing in the end, but I imagine it was significantly upwards of 10k :P And of course she wrote the detailed endnotes :D It also does not count all the words written in comments to the google document where we argued things like that Fredersdorf should be more zen than mildred wanted to write him and less zen than I wanted to write him :)
Although mildred and I mostly agreed on things, I had final veto power (and I did wield it a couple of times), so any remaining problems should be thought of as mine :) I'm very curious, though, as to how evident the collaboration was, and how evident the seams were, as I think mildred and I have very different writing styles, but it went through enough editing passes and discussion that I suspect much of the differences got at least somewhat smoothed out?
Counterpoint for Two Flutes
Re: The Suhm Letters: Franz Stephan
Date: 2020-01-12 09:02 am (UTC)Tangentially related, the Maria Theresia miniseries I told you and Cahn about many a month ago got a follow up this Christmas. Original two parter covered MT up to the end of the first Silesian War, second two parter goes until the end of the Second Silesian War. Is as faithful to history as the first installment, by which I mean not very. (Though I have to retrospectively apologize to the scriptwriters for believing they made that "young MT/Fritz as a potential marriage" thing in the first two parter out of the blue when they just invented who had actually come up with the idea and who supported it.) Somewhat frustratingly, they keep inventing marriage drama for MT and FS, and this installment's most baffling invention is that in order to come up with money for his beloved's army, Franzl secretly through free mason intermediaries sells army equipment to Fritz (who has the money to pay for it). I kept waiting for the material to be at least faulty or something, but no, the scriptwriters actually seem to think this was a viable scheme to make some cash through which the Austrian army can be funded. They never bother to explain why on earth if Franz Stephan can get his hands on all the textiles and gunpowder he can't equip the Austrian army with it directly. They also present MT as being in the wrong at being upset about this when eventually she finds out. You think?
In general, "Maria Theresia", parts 3 and 4, does the "woman hardens her heart in order to make it through critical situation, almost drives everyone who loves her away from her and loses her way ethically as well, then gets shock realisation that leads to reconciliation all around and readjustment of way" storyline I'm none too keen on for female characters even when they're fictional. In this case: MT, estranged from FS and soon everyone else, listens to her confessor and invents the chastity commission - so far so somewhat historically plausible at least - then when being ultra depressed and believing she's lost Franzl for good has a one night stand with a soldier while visiting the troops, at which point she realises it's possible to have sex with person a while still loving person b and we're all flawed and repents her earlier harshness. Then she's pregnant (so I take it Mimi in this 'verse is the product of a one night stand), and her Jesuit confessor, unhappy that the chastity commission is about to be dissolved and that he's lost his old on her, realises it can't be FS's and is about to make a big public accusation when Franzl, who knows symptoms of pregnancy by now, comes through and joyfully declares they're expecting again, which shuts the Jesuit up and ends this round of marital drama with reconciliation all around. Also the newly equipped Austrians beat the French and end that part of the war for good.
Another use of a tidbit of history is in their decision to include Austrian Trenck. (Prussian Trenck doesn't show up and doesn't get mentioned, either. I should add the only Prussians we ever see are the ambassadors, and also the scriptwriters use FW's penchant for tall guys and ascribe the Potsdam Giants to Fritz in the court gossip.) He's introduced as a scoundrel with military talent offering his services, MT against everyone's advice accepts (it's part of the hardening her heart storyline) , Austrian Trenck makes good on his promise to her to conquer Bavaria. Poor historical Field Marshal Traun who drove Fritz out of Bohemia does not exist in this series, it's Austrian Trenck and his pandurs who finally turn the military tide. However, soon reports of war crimes come in. MT refuses to believe them as the key witness against Trenck is his immediate subordinate who'd get his position if Austrian Trenck is condemned, but later on, a raped-by-Pandurs girl who is also a child shows up which does it and Trenck gets arrested, put on trial and condemned though MT because she still owes him for singlehandedly turning the tide insists he doesn't get the death penalty but life in prison. He then decides to die and writes her a final letter that they get each other and he's sorry about letting his men rape the kid but not about anything else because he's lived his life to the fulll in her service, and isn't sorry to let it go now. Like I said, this is all a part of the "OMG what have I done/become?" storyline, in this case the "if I'm twin souls of a war criminal, what does that make me?" section.
They've recast MT for these two installments from the young actress who'd played her as a teenager and in her 20s, and picked an actress who is actually allowed to be heavier and look like in her early 30s MT, but all the other actors are the same as in part one, including MT's mother and FS, so it looks like MT is the only one who aged (and gained weight) between installments, which is weird. (Uneasy lies the head who wears a crown?) Basically: continues to be soap opera styel history, though not boring, either. I'm still boggled they're trying to sell me on "trading army equipment to the Prussians" as a good financial decision, though.
Re: The Suhm Letters: Franz Stephan
Date: 2020-01-12 09:29 pm (UTC)You have retrospectively apologized in the best possible way: writing excellent fic!
Franzl secretly through free mason intermediaries sells army equipment to Fritz (who has the money to pay for it)believing she's lost Franzl for good has a one night stand with a soldier while visiting the troops, at which point she realises it's possible to have sex with person a while still loving person b
I repeat, WHAAAT???
This is a hell of an OOC AU. Who are you and what have you done with FS and MT???
ascribe the Potsdam Giants to Fritz
I mean, it's plausible insofar as cahn and I definitely used "not quite accurate gossip" as a strategy in our Fredersdorf fic, but you mean the Fritz who immediately disbanded the regiment because he thought it was such a ridiculous expense? Or, as Voltaire put it, "The King, his son, who loved handsome men, and not gigantic..."
I'm still boggled they're trying to sell me on "trading army equipment to the Prussians" as a good financial decision, though.
That's so weird. It only makes sense if FS is an amoral war profiteer hedging his bets and trying to get on Fritz's good side in the event the Prussians sack Vienna. I have news for you, FS: gratitude for favors rendered is not Fritz's strong point.
Also, FS having dealings with the freemasons, is that as implausible as I think? What with the pope having banned Catholics from becoming freemasons or having dealings with them just 2 years earlier? I mean, I'm quibbling over the least questionable of his decisions here, but still.
Re: The Suhm Letters: Franz Stephan
Date: 2020-01-13 06:57 am (UTC)The idea of FS using the freemasons to secretly trade equipment to Prussia , the profit of which goes into supplying the Austrian army, and that this whole thing isn’t presented as amoral war profiteering but a clever scheme to get the Austrian army better equipped is still absolutely nuts,and as ooc as MT having a one night stand and rethinking her atititude to human sexuality and marital fidelity. She is presented as shocked when FS tells her he’s a freemason but that comes a second before he confesses to the supplying Fritz with army material, so the later gets the outburst. Which she’s presented as being in the wrong to be upset about. Like I said: the scriptwriter’s logic is not earth logic.
Re: The Suhm Letters: Franz Stephan
Date: 2020-01-13 09:49 pm (UTC)Absolutely nuts and not earth logic, I agree.
Re: The Suhm Letters: Franz Stephan
Date: 2020-01-14 08:51 pm (UTC)what
again, I am glad you watched this to report the crazymaking back so we don't have to :)
Maria Theresia WOULD NEVER
Date: 2020-01-14 08:50 pm (UTC)"woman hardens her heart in order to make it through critical situation, almost drives everyone who loves her away from her and loses her way ethically as well, then gets shock realisation that leads to reconciliation all around and readjustment of way"
MARIA THERESIA???? Come on, if you HAVE to do this storyline then you do you, but with MT????
has a one night stand with a soldier while visiting the troops
I am simultaneously completely appalled by this and also hilariously remembering how much trouble we had convincing MT to have an affair with Franzl already in the MT/Fritz AU because MT WOULD NEVER. (Well, I mean, we concluded there was a possibility with gay husband + long-term love of her life as lover + desperate unhappiness, but even then it was not a sure thing.)
Re: Maria Theresia WOULD NEVER
Date: 2020-01-15 09:58 am (UTC)https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wie_der_Mond_%C3%BCber_Feuer_und_Blut