Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 44

[cahn]

Not only are these posts still going, there is now (more) original research going on in them deciphering and translating letters in archives that apparently no one has bothered to look at before?? (Which has now conclusively exonerated Fritz's valet/chamberlain Fredersdorf from the charge that he was dismissed because of financial irregularities and died shortly thereafter "ashamed of his lost honor," as Wikipedia would have it. I'M JUST SAYING.)

Comments

Re: Peter's mother to Fritz

[mildred_of_midgard]

Yep, this all makes sense. And I can really see where this would reinforce the "dead lion, live dog" attitude Peter had, which is why he's so anxious to prove himself at first and then defensive in his memoirs.

FW predicted would rule Fritz, and FW didn‘t just predict this in 1730, he ranted about Fritz as late as early 1739 AT LEAST as we know from the letters between Fritz and Wilhelmine.

Do you know off the top of your head which letter? It would make good supporting evidence for this argument in the essay. If not, I can hunt through the letters myself when I'm updating the essay again.

I'm still surprised he makes Peter an *equerry*, i.e. a court position, and doesn't let him come to war. I would expect it to be the other way around if he really wanted to make a point about drinking the Kool-aid. Taking Peter to war wouldn't mean actually interacting with him or treating him as a favorite; he's only a lt. col., and the army is a big place with lots of room for officers who don't get to talk to the king face-to-face.

Re: Peter's mother to Fritz

[selenak]

Do you know off the top of your head which letter?

I don't, and have limited time, but just checking my old write-up of the Fritz and Wilhelmine correspondence, there's the early 1739 letter to Wilhelmine I translated here which doesn't mention favourites, but does mention FW in full rant mode ("For six weeks I was the object of the King's bitter jokes and the target of his anger. It is very unusual to attack people whose fear and respect deprive them of the freedom to defend themselves and to complain", imagine Heinrich, future FW2 and a great many others coughing like mad people here) and is mostly about how AW is totally on his side, is not a liar able of dissembling and is not a danger to him so any rumors Wilhelmine might have heard about AW replacing him in the succession are wrong; this kind of thing demonstrates that contrary to later 19th century propaganda which only quotes the "there stands one who'll avenge me" from FW about Fritz from the 1730s and presents the two as completely reconciled, it was touch and go a couple of times more, even if Fritz never again considered leaving. Now I dimly recall there was also an envoy report (Valory? It was his first year...) or two about FW ranting against Fritz during his 1739 crisis, and that might have included the favourite thing, something along the lines of "it'll all go to hell, I just know it", but like I said - I have limited time and can't research in earnest.

aking Peter to war wouldn't mean actually interacting with him or treating him as a favorite; he's only a lt. col., and the army is a big place with lots of room for officers who don't get to talk to the king face-to-face.

True, but as you yourself pointed out, if Peter recalls Fritz the way he was in 1730, so does Fritz recall Peter. Yes, in theory he knows Peter has served with the navy some years by now, but I wouldn't be surprised if what he recalls is the Peter of 1729 saying he hates the army and agrees with Fritz that uniform is a Leichenkittel, so in his mind, he's doing him a favour. Just because he was never as attached to Peter as Peter was to him doesn't mean he doesn't care at all.

Re: Peter's mother to Fritz

[mildred_of_midgard]

I have limited time and can't research in earnest.

Understood, that's why I said "off the top of your head." I'll keep an eye out for it, then.

I wouldn't be surprised if what he recalls is the Peter of 1729 saying he hates the army and agrees with Fritz that uniform is a Leichenkittel, so in his mind, he's doing him a favour.

Could be. That's definitely very similar to my original theory, but it's still slightly surprising to me. We'll see if the memoirs have any more bearing on this once I decipher them fully (slowly chipping away while getting constantly side-tracked with other things).