The Jewish War: First half of Book 2

[cahn]

Last week: Discussion on how Herod stacked up against various Roman emperors in terms of body count of his nearest and dearest; how Friedrich Wilhelm might hear the Josephus text; Herod throwing money around; Cleopatra!

This week: ...uhhhh there was a lot going on and I haven't actually finished the reading yet *ducks* -- I am doing that right now and I should most likely be able to comment tomorrow. (I don't anticipate this being a problem again for at least two more months, and most likely not then either; this was a confluence of various time sinks that doesn't usually happen all at the same time.) But I wanted to go ahead and get the post up because I know you guys have read it... (ETA: have finished the reading now :P :) )

Next week: finishing up Book 2!

Comments

Re: Graves' Claudius and the Republic

[selenak]

It does work in the novel and in the tv show, as I said, but even within the tv show, they add a scene where Claudius shortly before his death has a conversation with Britannicus where he explains he is not really a tool of Agrippina, he hates her and her son, but the Republic, etc., and Britannicus essentially says: But Dad, no one wants the Republic anymore, and Nero being given the chance to screw up won’t change that. (I.e. the tv show writers were lampshading the problem with this justification).

The other problem within the Graves version is that Claudius isn’t just willing to make Nero his heir over Britannicus so the monarchy will crash and burn, but marries his daughter Octavia to him (which neither Octavia nor Nero are keen on, in this or any other version), and this makes Claudius look far more ruthless towards people he claims to love (i.e. his kids) than the Graves version is supposed to be.

In terms of all the other fictional secret Republicans in movies and tv: most annoying when they’re living centuries later, the Emperor Marcus Aurelius being a case in point. There is absolutely zero indication Marcus Aurelius thought about the Republic at any point of his life, and given we have his “Meditations”, we actually know more about what Marcus Aurelius was thinking than we do of most other Emperors. Graves sells it with Claudius because Claudius never experienced the Republic himself, so can idealize it, and he comes off age when it’s not yet a given that the Principate of Augustus will remain something permanent; that only finalizes when the Senate first confirms Tiberius and then Caligula, whose reigns are anything but a reccomendation for the monarchy. But by the time Marcus Aurelius lives, there has been no other state system but the monarchy anywhere for centuries, and the big question is only “adopt or make my bio son the heir?” Not “Republic?”

Re: Graves' Claudius and the Republic

[cahn]

and Britannicus essentially says: But Dad, no one wants the Republic anymore, and Nero being given the chance to screw up won’t change that. (I.e. the tv show writers were lampshading the problem with this justification).

Heh.

But by the time Marcus Aurelius lives, there has been no other state system but the monarchy anywhere for centuries, and the big question is only “adopt or make my bio son the heir?” Not “Republic?”

Ah, I see, that makes sense!