Wow. So, to recapitulate the order of events on the 19th:
Fritz: Lotte, be a dear and smuggle this super secret letter to my old teacher Duhan for me, you know, the one Dad banished. And don't tell anyone.
Charlotte: *departs with letter*
Fritz. Dear Wilhelmine, Charlotte's the worst, a chronic sibling backstabber who even badmouths her own husband to Mom and Dad to boot!
"Mirrors his surroundings" indeed. More seriously:
Which certainly suggests that he does know how to deal with her, possibly indeed trading on his future position? Huh.
I bet. I mean, Charlotte's not stupid, and she has to know that if she ratted Fritz out to Dad, she might get a pat on the back in the short term, but in the long term, she will have the next King hostile to her. And 1734 is one of those years when FW is in such bad health that everyone thinks he'll die. So it's not like she could assume Fritz' reign to be far, far into the future, with enough time to win his favor. She has to store favors now. Otoh, I also have no problem believing Charlotte kept badmouthing Wilhelmine and EC. Because Wilhelmine is competition (not socially right now; Charlotte has married a Duke of one of the major German duchies, Wilhelmine is Margravine in some Franconian backwater), but in terms of her being Fritz' favourite. As for EC, either this is so early in the marriage that it's still up to debate whether EC might become important to Fritz - especially since he has to fake being a good husband for now - , or it's just the Hohenzollern instinct to punch downwards, combined with smelling vulnerability (the way Dad does), because EC is an easy target.
I've recently read a biography of Anna Amalia (i.e. Charlotte's daughter, not her sister; Carl August's mother), and it does mention right at the start that Anna Amalia took one of Charlotte's jokes very serious, which was a Hohenzollern family joke. The chain went thusly:
FW (when one of his younger daughters was born): too many daughters, they can't all get husbands, "Aussschuß der Natur" (Waste of nature), should start to drown them like kittens.
Charlotte (in the letter announcing Anna Amalia's birth): Had another waste of nature product (this was her second daughter), am willing to drown her if my dear Papa promises to drown my sisters Ulrike and Amalie at the same time.
Anna Amalia's opening of her memoirs: Mom called me a waste of nature.
Biographer: No sense of humor.
I mean, yes, Charlotte was clearly joking, but I can see why Anna Amalia still minded that designation and didn't forget it. And let's not forget Charlotte's willingness to cut off her other daughter, EC the younger (first wife of FW2) immediately and forever instead of taking her back after the scandal when Fritz offers that first as an alternative to locking EC up, and telling FW2 the next time she sees him when visiting Brandenburg how ashamed she was for her daughter. Conclusion: Charlotte strikes one as the type to know on which side her bread was buttered, and with not much solidarity for the (female and/or weaker) family members who were endagering her position in the family pecking order in some way.
Back to Fritz: the Camas wenting from 1739 is fascinating, because Camas' primary loyalty should in theory be to FW, and it's Fritz "stealing of officers' loyalties" that formed a great part of what FW was ranting about in 1730. Though let's not forget, 1739 is when an increasing number of people seem to be willing to risk pissing FW off in order to gain Fritz' favor, see also the Tobacco College guys rising when he enters, and Pesne painting that ceiling. They seem to have been reasonably sure that his days were numbered (despite earlier mistakes in that regard).
Keylserlingk letters: so with you.
In any event: all those negative emotions towards FW didn't suddenly go away in May 1740 just because he died, so if Fritz censored himself completely because de mortuis nihil nisi bonum, it can't have been healthy. So let's home he vented every now and then in circumstances where no future memoirist was present.
(Or else it all went into his subconcious, producing dreams like the one from the 7 Years War where he's brought to Magdeburg and accused of not loving his father enough.)
Charlotte (in the letter announcing Anna Amalia's birth): Had another waste of nature product (this was her second daughter), am willing to drown her if my dear Papa promises to drown my sisters Ulrike and Amalie at the same time.
This family might be dysfunctional!
So let's home he vented every now and then in circumstances where no future memoirist was present.
Let's hope! I fear at that some point, maybe post Seven Years' War, he stopped being able to vent due to everyone having died off.
(Or else it all went into his subconcious, producing dreams like the one from the 7 Years War where he's brought to Magdeburg and accused of not loving his father enough.)
Definitely not mutually exclusive. :/ Let's hope he at least got some venting in between 1740 and 1756.
and Pesne painting that ceiling
Speaking of Pesne painting ceilings, I was googling it not long ago (I was looking for a visual of the ceiling that has a book with Voltaire's and Horace's names on facing pages--do any of you know where I can find a picture? I *know* I've seen it, I have a very clear mental image, but couldn't turn it up, and I didn't see it in Selena's picspams--maybe it wasn't Rheinsberg? It's driving me crazy)--anyway, I turned up this Menzel painting of Pesne painting:
It's entitled "Crown Prince Frederick Pays a Visit to the Painter Pesne on his Scaffold at Rheinsberg". (cahn, keep in mind that Menzel is 19th century, so this is an imaginative reconstruction.)
Menzel is gorgeous as always. I did not know this particular Fritz painting of his!
(Is the violinist supposed to be Benda?
the ceiling that has a book with Voltaire's and Horace's names on facing pages--do any of you know where I can find a picture?
I see two likely possibilities: it's either in Fritz' study room at Rheinsberg, which currently isn't open to the public (because it's too small; you're just allowed to take a quick glimpse across the barrier), or it's in the Sanssouci library room (which you're not allowed to enter even under no covid conditions), or in Fritz' suite in the New Palace which also is currently sealed off to the public. In any event, I did not see it and thus have to guess.
Let's hope he at least got some venting in between 1740 and 1756.
Let's hope. I choose to believe he vented to Fredersdorf, whom he knew would not tell a soul. After 1756, you're right that the people he trusted and who had known FW were gone. (I mean, Pöllnitz might have been the Hohenzollern go to guy for anecdotes, but sure as hell not the guy to rant about Dad at.) However, maybe he allowed himself to express some mixed feelings to later friends like George Keith or Luccesini? (I mean, if he told Lucchesini he loved someone "like Scorates did Alcibioades" shortly before the 7 Years War, he could have told him "a part of me is still angry at Dad". ) In any event, let's also recall the remarkable fact that Fritz made the emotionally healthy and eminently sensible decision to not join the sibling trip to Wusterhausen!
(I think that place must have been opened exactly two times once FW was dead - for the family trip and later in 1799 when Heinrich decded to spend some time there blend out the last twelve years. Unless Fritz rented it to hunting-minded aristos during his reign, which is also possible.
I see two likely possibilities: it's either in Fritz' study room at Rheinsberg
That's what my memory told me, and Blanning confirms:
From his little library in the southern round tower Frederick could look out at lake and gardens on three sides without seeing another building. Immediately adjacent was his main library, followed by a study and a suite of eight further rooms occupying most of the south wing. On the ceiling of the tower room a painting entitled Tranquillity in the Study by the court painter Antoine Pesne depicted Minerva surrounded by personifications of the sciences, arts and literature, one of whom points to an open book in which are written the names of Frederick’s two favorite authors: Horace and Voltaire.
I know I've seen a picture of it! Holmes, I mean felis? :D I want to show cahn, and also it's driving me crazy.
I choose to believe he vented to Fredersdorf, whom he knew would not tell a soul.
I choose to agree!
However, maybe he allowed himself to express some mixed feelings to later friends like George Keith or Luccesini? (I mean, if he told Lucchesini he loved someone "like Scorates did Alcibioades" shortly before the 7 Years War, he could have told him "a part of me is still angry at Dad". )
I was hoping for George Keith, yeah. But if Catt is not totally fictionalizing this part and if he's representative (both doubtful!), what Fritz said was along the lines of, "Wow, growing up under Dad sucked, but also, great man, not as bad as it sounds, don't want you to think ill of the late King!" Which I almost believe just because that is soooo typical of abuse victims. And the diary definitely backs up the dreams of longing for FW's approval.
So...let's hope he got some informal therapy via in-person discussions with Fredersdorf and hopefully Wilhelmine.
I think that place must have been opened exactly two times once FW was dead
My vague, vague memories are telling me Fritz actually paid a visit to a family member for lunch early in his reign, but...ah, yes, MacDonogh this time. 1745, just after the treaty ending the Second Silesian War is concluded:
Frederick returned to his capital on 28 December. He stopped for lunch at the hated house of Wusterhausen, which he had given to William...Prince Henry went to join his brothers at Wusterhausen, and all three drove into town in an open phaeton.
Source, Bielfeld.
Checking Bielfeld, I don't actually see Wusterhausen mentioned by name. I see the open phaeton, and I see Henry going to meet Fritz somewhere south of Berlin for lunch. Which could be Wusterhausen but isn't necessarily. But Rödenbeck agrees: Der König kommt in Wusterhausen an, speist daselbst Mittags bei dem Prinzen von Preußen, und reis't nach Berlin ab.
Fritz: always surprising us, whether it's going to Wusterhausen, or electing not to go to Wusterhausen for the reunion!
Well, if I had had more time that day, I'd have bought a catalogue at least which presumably would have had the ceiling painting in question, even if we couldn't go into the room itself. Ah well, next time.
That's what I was wondering!
Practice your German, here's a description of the painting:
Anfang der sechziger Jahre bestellte der Berliner Chemiefabrikant Kahlbaum bei Menzel, in bemerkenswerter Mischung, vier Motive aus der Kronprinzenzeit Friedrichs II. und fünf Motive aus der Gegenwart, alles Gouachen. Die einzelnen Gegenstände waren zweifellos Menzels eigene Wahl. Während einer Kur in Rheinsberg 1860 hatte er das Schloß studieren können, das Kronprinz Friedrich für seine musische Hofhaltung hatte umbauen lassen. Dabei erhielt die Decke des Ballsaales ein Deckenbild von Antoine Pesne: »Apollo vertreibt die Finsternis« (1740) – eine Allegorie, die man in der Umgebung des Kronprinzen auf den baldigen Thronwechsel bezog. Mit großem Aufwand an bewegten Figuren, erzählerischen wie malerischen Pointen, Querblicken, Beleuchtungs- und perspektivischen Effekten schildert die kleine Komposition eine Episode während der Entstehung dieses Freskos. Wiewohl an sich belanglos, schlägt sie doch das im 19. Jahrhundert weitverbreitete Rahmenthema ›König und Künstler‹ an und berührt damit die Würde der Kunst. Man befindet sich, vom Boden abgelöst, ›bodenlos‹, in der Höhe des Malgerüstes und nimmt dennoch das Meiste aus der Untersicht wahr. Große, überlaufende Farbtöpfe stehen kipplig umher. Weil alle Künste zusammengehören, füllt der Hofmusiker Franz Benda den Raum verträumt mit seinem Bratschenspiel. Während ein Gehilfe die Palette reinigt, scherzt, eine Gerüststufe höher und fast schon mit dem Himmel des Freskos verschmelzend, Friedrichs Hofmaler Antoine Pesne mit seinem Modell. Neugierig hinaufblickend nähert sich Friedrich, dessen Erscheinen ein kräftiger Sonnenstrahl hervorhebt. Ihn begleitet der Baumeister des Schlosses, Georg Wenzeslaus von Knobelsdorff. Der Bildraum ist aufs reichste durch die Gerüstkonstruktionen perspektivisch verbaut, alle Figuren sind Abgründen nahe, am augenfälligsten der einsame Musiker, der einem Somnambulen gleicht. Die vornübergefallene Gliederpuppe scheint nicht nur auf den Sieg der Natur über akademische Künstlichkeit anzuspielen, sondern die Perspektive als solche zu parodieren. Die Mittelachse ist mit einer schweren pyramidalen Kombination aus Figur und Gegenständen besetzt. Darunter ist ein prächtig gedrechselter barocker Stuhl – unerwartet auf einem Malgerüst. Nur die wenigen Besucher von Menzels Atelier wußten damals: Es ist Menzels eigener Stuhl! Indem er ihn, was durchaus nicht naheliegt, dem Künstler des 18. Jahrhunderts zuordnet, identifiziert er sich mit ihm und wird selbst ›der Maler Friedrichs des Großen‹. Oder anders: Der Stuhl ist noch leer, es fehlt nur noch sein Besitzer, um das Bild eines Glücksmoments der Kunst zu vervollständigen. Dies zu legitimieren, mobilisiert Menzel allen Zauber und alle Subtilität seiner Malerei.
Bielfeld: wasn't that also the occasion where all the brothers take off to visit dying Duhan? Also, since I recently checked Ziebura, this bit:
He stopped for lunch at the hated house of Wusterhausen, which he had given to William
Is a bit deceptively phrased. Because as Ziebura reminded me, FW had been very specific about Wusterhausen:
- Fritz becomes King, it goes to AW - AW or AW's descendants become King, it goes to Heinrich - Heinrich dies without issue, it goes to Ferdinand - only if Ferdinand also dies without male heirs, it goes back to the crown
Meaning, Fritz wasn't "giving" as much as fulfilling FW's will. Otoh he did give AW Oranienburg, and that rather than Wusterhausen became AW's out-of-Berlin residence of choice, indicating that FW's favourite or not, they evidently didn't share a taste in palaces.
... has any of you come across this one before? The subtitle reads "Ein Kammerhusar Friedrichs des Großen. Oelgemälde im Neuen Palais" and I have not been able to find out if it survived, if the title is accurate, who painted it or when (which could help narrow down both authenticity and possible suspects). I think I read somewhere that Fritz did indeed have some of them painted? Or was that an urban legend?
Speaking of Fritz having his favourites painted, in the same issue, there are these two dog paintings. The one on the right we've encountered before - "Solange wir zu zweit sind" claims it's Biche - but the one on the left was all new to me. He did have a whole gallery apparently!
Oh, and Mildred, re: the Horace/Voltaire book - I think I've seen a close up before as well, and since it isn't in any of the books I own (I did suspect Blanning actually, but nope), it must have been online somewhere. Strange.
I think I read somewhere that Fritz did indeed have some of them painted? Or was that an urban legend?
Not ringing a bell; we'll wait to see what the well-read selenak reports.
If so, the Potsdam Giants come to mind... ;)
He did have a whole gallery apparently!
Aww, nice! That must have been especially poignant after they died.
Oh, and Mildred, re: the Horace/Voltaire book - I think I've seen a close up before as well, and since it isn't in any of the books I own (I did suspect Blanning actually, but nope), it must have been online somewhere. Strange.,
Blanning was the first place I checked! He has good images, and he mentions the ceiling. But no. Strange that it's eluding two detectives...
I think I read somewhere that Fritz did indeed have some of them painted? Or was that an urban legend?
Haven't come across it yet, so I vote for confusion with Dad and his Potsdam Giants.
This said, I could always be wrong, and at any rate, one of my recently translated Glasow summaries mentions Fritz gave him a special splendid red uniform to wear (which given that it's singled out can't have been the standard uniform for chamber hussars, not least because the color is wrong). If he looked especially good in it and he was, as I suspect, the 1755/56 Alcibiades, then maybe?
Yeah, Glasow might have been why I was curious about the date of the painting... ;) Because it depicts quite the good-looking guy! Who actually reminds me of Fredersdorf a bit, the older snuff box portrait.
Aww, nice! That must have been especially poignant after they died.
Just to avoid a misunderstanding here: the Yearbook doesn't say he had one, that was my own reaction to the discovery that there was a second dog painting, because I'd previously commented "I'm kind of surprised we don't have a whole gallery of his favourites." when I found the Biche one. So I was basically talking to myself, but two paintings is all I know of. (For now!)
Aw, that's a really cool picture! I like it, imaginative or not :) (But glad you told me that so I wouldn't go around thinking that was exactly what everything looked like! clearly every painter needs random violinists in the background
now I'm imagining Heinrich hanging out playing violin just to annoy Fritz
LOL. Maybe Heinrich did. I do think the very successful Renaissance painters in their studiolos had some music, and also baroque superstars like Rubens might have, but don't hold me to it, I'm talking out of very distant memory here.
see also the Tobacco College guys rising when he enters
Which Camas was a part of, too! Fritz mentions it a couple of times and doesn't write to him there in 1737 explicitely because he thinks that might get Camas into trouble. Not so in 1739 apparently.
But that reminds me, Kloosterhuis published a new book about the Tobacco Parliament (a revised version of his chapter in this 2020 FW essay collection, which Gambitten mentioned some time back ), more exactly: about the Lisiewski painting from 1736/37 you linked last post. He unearthed a list of names in the state archive, which had been dismissed as not reliable before, but he thinks it might go back to Heinrich, who owned the painting in the end and talked about it to people (see also this book review). Camas is on the list of participants, but no Grumbkow or Dessauer, which is a bit strange, but who knows. (See the first link for the other people allegedly in the painting.)
producing dreams like the one from the 7 Years War where he's brought to Magdeburg and accused of not loving his father enough
I think during the War, he was also pretty close with d'Argens? I seem to remember that he might have made a couple of Dad-critical comments towards him, but I don't think that counts as venting. And no Fredersdorf anymore. :( Now I'm wondering what the "not feeling good enough" combined with the way the war was going did to his thoughts on FW...
Thank you for all the links. Inner nitpicker alert!
he thinks it might go back to Heinrich, who owned the painting in the end and talked about it to people (see also this book review).
Having read the article you linked, I don't know whether it's Kloosterhuis or the Welt journalist paraphrasing him, but: the claim Heinrich "lived often in Wusterhausen in his old age" - "often" is pushing it. He moved into some rooms in 1799 (when I see he gave the painting to FW3, presumably because he found it moving in) and did intend to spend more time there because it was much closer to Berlin than Rheinsberg, so if he could have moved in more regularly it would have spared him a long way to and thro. But in the end it was too cold, and the whole purpose of another residence in your old age was not to be freezing, so he mostly kept switching between Berlin (winter) and Rheinsberg in the summer. If I remember my Ziebura correctly, he spent some weeks at Wusterhausen in 1799 and some weeks in 1800 there, and then basically gave up. (He died in 1802, at Rheinsberg.) All this being said, he was the methodical type, he knew he probably did not have much more time left, and it would make sense if he'd made a list to identify the people on the painting. There weren't many people left who could have, after all.
2. First link for identification: I see Kloosterhuis doesn't devote a chapter to the hare sitting on the opposite end of the table, and whom he might symbolize. Would probably spoil the image of the Tobacco College as a Sehnsuchtsort and place of comradely relaxation, she says snarkily. No Seckendorff is explainable in 1737/1738 - he was busy fighting with the Turks and then getting locked up because Austria fared badly in that war, only to be freed by MT once she came on the throne. And Seckendorff Jr. the nephew wasn't a Tobbaco Parliament regular. For Grumbkow, I don't have an explanation.
I think during the War, he was also pretty close with d'Argens? I seem to remember that he might have made a couple of Dad-critical comments towards him, but I don't think that counts as venting.
He was pretty close with D'Argens during the war, that's true, but I think - and I might be wrong, of course - he deliberately focused on talking to him about literature (and possip such as Émilie's love life) in order to have an escape from war thoughts. Talking about his father wouldn't have been an escape. Then again, I've never read the D'Argens letters, so what do I know? D'Argens was the one to hear that incredibly telling "...je erais sans souci" remark, after all.
Fritz: Lotte, be a dear and smuggle this super secret letter to my old teacher Duhan for me, you know, the one Dad banished. And don't tell anyone.
Charlotte: *departs with letter*
Fritz. Dear Wilhelmine, Charlotte's the worst, a chronic sibling backstabber who even badmouths her own husband to Mom and Dad to boot!
FRIIIIIITZ
I mean, yes, Charlotte was clearly joking, but I can see why Anna Amalia still minded that designation and didn't forget it.
Oh hey, I recognize that: the "joke" that is more insulting than funny but one gets called sensitive if one objects to it! (I was not, in fact, the one accused of being "sensitive," but it took me more years than I'm comfortable admitting to figure out what was wrong with the whole setup.)
Oh hey, I recognize that: the "joke" that is more insulting than funny but one gets called sensitive if one objects to it!
Oh yes, that mechanism rings very familiar. (Even before Rightwingers on both sides of the Atlantic perfected it, because isn't that behind the whole "snowflake" name calling by Republicans? Our bunch of Neonazis in parliament, the AFD, certainly does it all the time, first insult, then when called on it say that OF COURSE it was meant as a joke, why are people so over the top in their reactions etc etc.)
Anna Amalia was also the second daughter and her older sister was supposedly the brilliant one of her generation, to whom she was constantly compared. Well, in retrospect of course Anna Amalia had the last laugh in that she became the most famous of her generation of the entire family, brothers included, and no, that didn't just happen after her death. In the 1780s, Gleim, who had served in the 7 years War and written ultra patriotic "Fritz Forever!" poems then, wrote one addressed to Anna Amalia praising Weimar and ending on the verse "Berlin, you had your chance - Athens is here!", a judgment with whom posterity agreed for the years between Goethe's arrival and Schiller's death.
A bit more about Amalia the younger: she got married at 16, pregnant with Carl August at 17, pregnant again with her second son at 19 when her husband died, which made her (after some scheming of the most powerful minister to prevent it) regent of the duchy of Weimar. For which, of course, she had not been educated (she'd received a good education in terms of (French) literature and music, and heading a princely household, but not in governing, because woman. And the last will of her husband severely limited the kind of changes she could make during Carl August's minority (despite the fact reform was direly necessary). Then, no sooner had she started to settle into her role as Regent did Uncle Fritz want soldiers post haste because the 7 Years War was in full swing. Her mother Charlotte - whom she otherwise had a distant relationship with, her parent of choice was definitely her father - did help her then to bargain Fritz down to 150 soldiers though Amalia wasn't wrong when saying tiny Weimar couldn't even afford that many young and able men. Prussian recruiters showed up, Weimar men were told to go into hiding and not emerge until Prussian "recruiters" were gone again, and then were assured by their Duchess they wouldn't have to fear retaliations for showing up once more.
When Carl August achieved his majority and fell in love with Goethe befriended Goethe, there was much surprise that Anna Amalia, who had ended up in a state of near constant argument with Carl August's main (political, not cultural) governor during CA's teenage years (either out of maternal jealousy or political reasons or both, depending on whom you ask), didn't object to this, and then Weimar gossip went into overdrive because it was noted young Goethe didn't just flirt with Charlotte von Stein (whom he as subsequent events showed was seriously in love with) but with Annna Amalia as well, within the bounds of courtly behavior, of course, but he was a commoner. And "Maman", as the wife of her arch enemy the political governor nicknamed her, was only in her thirties, because she'd given birth to Carl August so young, so even by the standards of the 1700s, she wasn't yet thought of as an old, over the hill woman. She certainly did flirt back, within courtly behavior. (And set some of Goethe's minor plays written for the court to music later.)
Some years ago, a new tinhat theory emerged declaring that Charlotte von Stein was just the beard for a Goethe/Anna Amalia effair, and that the love letters and poems written during Goethe's first decade in Weimar were really adressed to her, which most biographers (including the one I've just read) make mincemeat of, not least because Goethe's love letters to Charlotte von Stein are very specifically talking to her, addressing matters like her son (called Fritz, btw, and partly raised in Goethe's house, though born long before he came to Weimar, so definitely not his son), and meetings and events at which Anna Amalia had not been present. Also, young Goethe on occasion could be reckless but definitely not suicidal, and one of the few things Carl August would NOT have forgiven him would be compromising his mother! And even Weimar gossip at the time, which was vicious (as poor Christiane later found out) doesn't claim an actual affair or even a mutual platonic relationship; it does claim Anna Amalia was jealous of Charlotte von Stein.
The biographer thinks that Anna Amalia undeniably had a soft spot for Goethe and might have enjoyed the flirting and courtoisie during the first few years with him more than with the other guys at court (for all that Carl August married quickly, his wife was overshadowed by his mother for the first twenty years or so), but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far), and that was as far as it went. Otoh, she did fall in love later when she went to Italy. Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Oh, and for context:
Goethe: after a decade in Weimar, takes off to Italy to rediscover himself as a poet and be free for the next two years.
Anna Amalia, after year 1: You know, his letters to Carl August make it sound like living in Italy is great. Maybe I should do that, too.
Weimar gossip: Clearly, she's pining for Goethe. Though competing with Italian beauties is even dumber than competing with Charlotte von Stein.
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
She did love it in Italy, though, and really enjoyed that she didn't just have the usual nobility and worthies to talk to, but also all the artists whom Goethe had befriended and connected her with via letters. She remained two years, too, with the main difference to most Germans travelling to Italy in the 18th century being that she liked Naples better than Rome (for the others, it was usually the other way around). Her circle in Naples didn't just include the scandalous Catholic bishop with whom she'd exchange love letters for the rest of their lives once she left Italy, but also Sir William Hamilton and Emma, and she and the bishop visited the evacations at Pompeji and Herculaneum as Wilhelmine had done with La Condamine. Like Wilhelmine, she only returned reluctantly and because her family was on the other side of the Alps. Just in time, though, because Napoleon was on his way to conquer Italy practically the moment she came back.
I swear I thought I had responded to this, because this is awesome. Like felis, everything I hear about Anna Amalia makes me like her more. She's the true hero of this family :D
It makes total sense that she would have liked flirting with Goethe but not any farther than that.
but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far)
WORD. GO ANNA AMALIA. I'm so glad she got to do some fun stuff!
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
Ha! Very smart of you, Goethe and Anna Amalia :)
Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Okay, this is super awesome. Anna Amalia is the best. I mean, I guess it's sort of a sad story in the sense that it has to remain UST, but if you can't get married to your true love, the next best is love letters to a scandalous Catholic bishop for the rest of your life, I feel :)
ETA: So, does your biographer have any excerpts from these love letters? Gossipy sensationalist inquiring minds want to know!
She did, but the biography is back at the library, since I ordered new books. (You can only take up to six at a time in covid-life.) If the libraries are more open again in May, I'll see what I can do. :)
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timeasmymeasure
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-23 11:57 am (UTC)Wow. So, to recapitulate the order of events on the 19th:
Fritz: Lotte, be a dear and smuggle this super secret letter to my old teacher Duhan for me, you know, the one Dad banished. And don't tell anyone.
Charlotte: *departs with letter*
Fritz. Dear Wilhelmine, Charlotte's the worst, a chronic sibling backstabber who even badmouths her own husband to Mom and Dad to boot!
"Mirrors his surroundings" indeed. More seriously:
Which certainly suggests that he does know how to deal with her, possibly indeed trading on his future position? Huh.
I bet. I mean, Charlotte's not stupid, and she has to know that if she ratted Fritz out to Dad, she might get a pat on the back in the short term, but in the long term, she will have the next King hostile to her. And 1734 is one of those years when FW is in such bad health that everyone thinks he'll die. So it's not like she could assume Fritz' reign to be far, far into the future, with enough time to win his favor. She has to store favors now. Otoh, I also have no problem believing Charlotte kept badmouthing Wilhelmine and EC. Because Wilhelmine is competition (not socially right now; Charlotte has married a Duke of one of the major German duchies, Wilhelmine is Margravine in some Franconian backwater), but in terms of her being Fritz' favourite. As for EC, either this is so early in the marriage that it's still up to debate whether EC might become important to Fritz - especially since he has to fake being a good husband for now - , or it's just the Hohenzollern instinct to punch downwards, combined with smelling vulnerability (the way Dad does), because EC is an easy target.
I've recently read a biography of Anna Amalia (i.e. Charlotte's daughter, not her sister; Carl August's mother), and it does mention right at the start that Anna Amalia took one of Charlotte's jokes very serious, which was a Hohenzollern family joke. The chain went thusly:
FW (when one of his younger daughters was born): too many daughters, they can't all get husbands, "Aussschuß der Natur" (Waste of nature), should start to drown them like kittens.
Charlotte (in the letter announcing Anna Amalia's birth): Had another waste of nature product (this was her second daughter), am willing to drown her if my dear Papa promises to drown my sisters Ulrike and Amalie at the same time.
Anna Amalia's opening of her memoirs: Mom called me a waste of nature.
Biographer: No sense of humor.
I mean, yes, Charlotte was clearly joking, but I can see why Anna Amalia still minded that designation and didn't forget it. And let's not forget Charlotte's willingness to cut off her other daughter, EC the younger (first wife of FW2) immediately and forever instead of taking her back after the scandal when Fritz offers that first as an alternative to locking EC up, and telling FW2 the next time she sees him when visiting Brandenburg how ashamed she was for her daughter. Conclusion: Charlotte strikes one as the type to know on which side her bread was buttered, and with not much solidarity for the (female and/or weaker) family members who were endagering her position in the family pecking order in some way.
Back to Fritz: the Camas wenting from 1739 is fascinating, because Camas' primary loyalty should in theory be to FW, and it's Fritz "stealing of officers' loyalties" that formed a great part of what FW was ranting about in 1730. Though let's not forget, 1739 is when an increasing number of people seem to be willing to risk pissing FW off in order to gain Fritz' favor, see also the Tobacco College guys rising when he enters, and Pesne painting that ceiling. They seem to have been reasonably sure that his days were numbered (despite earlier mistakes in that regard).
Keylserlingk letters: so with you.
In any event: all those negative emotions towards FW didn't suddenly go away in May 1740 just because he died, so if Fritz censored himself completely because de mortuis nihil nisi bonum, it can't have been healthy. So let's home he vented every now and then in circumstances where no future memoirist was present.
(Or else it all went into his subconcious, producing dreams like the one from the 7 Years War where he's brought to Magdeburg and accused of not loving his father enough.)
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 12:18 am (UTC)This family might be dysfunctional!
Charlotte (in the letter announcing Anna Amalia's birth): Had another waste of nature product (this was her second daughter), am willing to drown her if my dear Papa promises to drown my sisters Ulrike and Amalie at the same time.
This family might be dysfunctional!
So let's home he vented every now and then in circumstances where no future memoirist was present.
Let's hope! I fear at that some point, maybe post Seven Years' War, he stopped being able to vent due to everyone having died off.
(Or else it all went into his subconcious, producing dreams like the one from the 7 Years War where he's brought to Magdeburg and accused of not loving his father enough.)
Definitely not mutually exclusive. :/ Let's hope he at least got some venting in between 1740 and 1756.
and Pesne painting that ceiling
Speaking of Pesne painting ceilings, I was googling it not long ago (I was looking for a visual of the ceiling that has a book with Voltaire's and Horace's names on facing pages--do any of you know where I can find a picture? I *know* I've seen it, I have a very clear mental image, but couldn't turn it up, and I didn't see it in Selena's picspams--maybe it wasn't Rheinsberg? It's driving me crazy)--anyway, I turned up this Menzel painting of Pesne painting:
It's entitled "Crown Prince Frederick Pays a Visit to the Painter Pesne on his Scaffold at Rheinsberg". (
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 06:31 am (UTC)(Is the violinist supposed to be Benda?
the ceiling that has a book with Voltaire's and Horace's names on facing pages--do any of you know where I can find a picture?
I see two likely possibilities: it's either in Fritz' study room at Rheinsberg, which currently isn't open to the public (because it's too small; you're just allowed to take a quick glimpse across the barrier), or it's in the Sanssouci library room (which you're not allowed to enter even under no covid conditions), or in Fritz' suite in the New Palace which also is currently sealed off to the public. In any event, I did not see it and thus have to guess.
Let's hope he at least got some venting in between 1740 and 1756.
Let's hope. I choose to believe he vented to Fredersdorf, whom he knew would not tell a soul. After 1756, you're right that the people he trusted and who had known FW were gone. (I mean, Pöllnitz might have been the Hohenzollern go to guy for anecdotes, but sure as hell not the guy to rant about Dad at.) However, maybe he allowed himself to express some mixed feelings to later friends like George Keith or Luccesini? (I mean, if he told Lucchesini he loved someone "like Scorates did Alcibioades" shortly before the 7 Years War, he could have told him "a part of me is still angry at Dad". ) In any event, let's also recall the remarkable fact that Fritz made the emotionally healthy and eminently sensible decision to not join the sibling trip to Wusterhausen!
(I think that place must have been opened exactly two times once FW was dead - for the family trip and later in 1799 when Heinrich decded to spend some time there
blend out the last twelve years. Unless Fritz rented it to hunting-minded aristos during his reign, which is also possible.Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 12:42 pm (UTC)That's what I was wondering!
I see two likely possibilities: it's either in Fritz' study room at Rheinsberg
That's what my memory told me, and Blanning confirms:
From his little library in the southern round tower Frederick could look out at lake and gardens on three sides without seeing another building. Immediately adjacent was his main library, followed by a study and a suite of eight further rooms occupying most of the south wing. On the ceiling of the tower room a painting entitled Tranquillity in the Study by the court painter Antoine Pesne depicted Minerva surrounded by personifications of the sciences, arts and literature, one of whom points to an open book in which are written the names of Frederick’s two favorite authors: Horace and Voltaire.
I know I've seen a picture of it! Holmes, I mean
I choose to believe he vented to Fredersdorf, whom he knew would not tell a soul.
I choose to agree!
However, maybe he allowed himself to express some mixed feelings to later friends like George Keith or Luccesini? (I mean, if he told Lucchesini he loved someone "like Scorates did Alcibioades" shortly before the 7 Years War, he could have told him "a part of me is still angry at Dad". )
I was hoping for George Keith, yeah. But if Catt is not totally fictionalizing this part and if he's representative (both doubtful!), what Fritz said was along the lines of, "Wow, growing up under Dad sucked, but also, great man, not as bad as it sounds, don't want you to think ill of the late King!" Which I almost believe just because that is soooo typical of abuse victims. And the diary definitely backs up the dreams of longing for FW's approval.
So...let's hope he got some informal therapy via in-person discussions with Fredersdorf and hopefully Wilhelmine.
I think that place must have been opened exactly two times once FW was dead
My vague, vague memories are telling me Fritz actually paid a visit to a family member for lunch early in his reign, but...ah, yes, MacDonogh this time. 1745, just after the treaty ending the Second Silesian War is concluded:
Frederick returned to his capital on 28 December. He stopped for lunch at the hated house of Wusterhausen, which he had given to William...Prince Henry went to join his brothers at Wusterhausen, and all three drove into town in an open phaeton.
Source, Bielfeld.
Checking Bielfeld, I don't actually see Wusterhausen mentioned by name. I see the open phaeton, and I see Henry going to meet Fritz somewhere south of Berlin for lunch. Which could be Wusterhausen but isn't necessarily. But Rödenbeck agrees: Der König kommt in Wusterhausen an, speist daselbst Mittags bei dem Prinzen von Preußen, und reis't nach Berlin ab.
Fritz: always surprising us, whether it's going to Wusterhausen, or electing not to go to Wusterhausen for the reunion!
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 01:08 pm (UTC)That's what I was wondering!
Practice your German, here's a description of the painting:
Anfang der sechziger Jahre bestellte der Berliner Chemiefabrikant Kahlbaum bei Menzel, in bemerkenswerter Mischung, vier Motive aus der Kronprinzenzeit Friedrichs II. und fünf Motive aus der Gegenwart, alles Gouachen. Die einzelnen Gegenstände waren zweifellos Menzels eigene Wahl. Während einer Kur in Rheinsberg 1860 hatte er das Schloß studieren können, das Kronprinz Friedrich für seine musische Hofhaltung hatte umbauen lassen. Dabei erhielt die Decke des Ballsaales ein Deckenbild von Antoine Pesne: »Apollo vertreibt die Finsternis« (1740) – eine Allegorie, die man in der Umgebung des Kronprinzen auf den baldigen Thronwechsel bezog.
Mit großem Aufwand an bewegten Figuren, erzählerischen wie malerischen Pointen, Querblicken, Beleuchtungs- und perspektivischen Effekten schildert die kleine Komposition eine Episode während der Entstehung dieses Freskos. Wiewohl an sich belanglos, schlägt sie doch das im 19. Jahrhundert weitverbreitete Rahmenthema ›König und Künstler‹ an und berührt damit die Würde der Kunst. Man befindet sich, vom Boden abgelöst, ›bodenlos‹, in der Höhe des Malgerüstes und nimmt dennoch das Meiste aus der Untersicht wahr. Große, überlaufende Farbtöpfe stehen kipplig umher. Weil alle Künste zusammengehören, füllt der Hofmusiker Franz Benda den Raum verträumt mit seinem Bratschenspiel. Während ein Gehilfe die Palette reinigt, scherzt, eine Gerüststufe höher und fast schon mit dem Himmel des Freskos verschmelzend, Friedrichs Hofmaler Antoine Pesne mit seinem Modell. Neugierig hinaufblickend nähert sich Friedrich, dessen Erscheinen ein kräftiger Sonnenstrahl hervorhebt. Ihn begleitet der Baumeister des Schlosses, Georg Wenzeslaus von Knobelsdorff.
Der Bildraum ist aufs reichste durch die Gerüstkonstruktionen perspektivisch verbaut, alle Figuren sind Abgründen nahe, am augenfälligsten der einsame Musiker, der einem Somnambulen gleicht. Die vornübergefallene Gliederpuppe scheint nicht nur auf den Sieg der Natur über akademische Künstlichkeit anzuspielen, sondern die Perspektive als solche zu parodieren. Die Mittelachse ist mit einer schweren pyramidalen Kombination aus Figur und Gegenständen besetzt. Darunter ist ein prächtig gedrechselter barocker Stuhl – unerwartet auf einem Malgerüst. Nur die wenigen Besucher von Menzels Atelier wußten damals: Es ist Menzels eigener Stuhl! Indem er ihn, was durchaus nicht naheliegt, dem Künstler des 18. Jahrhunderts zuordnet, identifiziert er sich mit ihm und wird selbst ›der Maler Friedrichs des Großen‹. Oder anders: Der Stuhl ist noch leer, es fehlt nur noch sein Besitzer, um das Bild eines Glücksmoments der Kunst zu vervollständigen. Dies zu legitimieren, mobilisiert Menzel allen Zauber und alle Subtilität seiner Malerei.
Bielfeld: wasn't that also the occasion where all the brothers take off to visit dying Duhan? Also, since I recently checked Ziebura, this bit:
He stopped for lunch at the hated house of Wusterhausen, which he had given to William
Is a bit deceptively phrased. Because as Ziebura reminded me, FW had been very specific about Wusterhausen:
- Fritz becomes King, it goes to AW
- AW or AW's descendants become King, it goes to Heinrich
- Heinrich dies without issue, it goes to Ferdinand
- only if Ferdinand also dies without male heirs, it goes back to the crown
Meaning, Fritz wasn't "giving" as much as fulfilling FW's will. Otoh he did give AW Oranienburg, and that rather than Wusterhausen became AW's out-of-Berlin residence of choice, indicating that FW's favourite or not, they evidently didn't share a taste in palaces.
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 01:19 pm (UTC)And that is one lovely Menzel painting! Hadn't seen that before.
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 01:24 pm (UTC)I know I've seen an up-close and readable version of the Horace and Voltaire names, but alas. If anyone runs across it, link me!
I found the Menzel painting totally by accident and had to share it!
Speaking of Paintings...
Date: 2021-03-25 02:24 pm (UTC)Speaking of Fritz having his favourites painted, in the same issue, there are these two dog paintings. The one on the right we've encountered before - "Solange wir zu zweit sind" claims it's Biche - but the one on the left was all new to me. He did have a whole gallery apparently!
Oh, and Mildred, re: the Horace/Voltaire book - I think I've seen a close up before as well, and since it isn't in any of the books I own (I did suspect Blanning actually, but nope), it must have been online somewhere. Strange.
Re: Speaking of Paintings...
Date: 2021-03-25 10:32 pm (UTC)I think I read somewhere that Fritz did indeed have some of them painted? Or was that an urban legend?
Not ringing a bell; we'll wait to see what the well-read
If so, the Potsdam Giants come to mind... ;)
He did have a whole gallery apparently!
Aww, nice! That must have been especially poignant after they died.
Oh, and Mildred, re: the Horace/Voltaire book - I think I've seen a close up before as well, and since it isn't in any of the books I own (I did suspect Blanning actually, but nope), it must have been online somewhere. Strange.,
Blanning was the first place I checked! He has good images, and he mentions the ceiling. But no. Strange that it's eluding two detectives...
Ah well, I'm sure it'll turn up one day.
Re: Speaking of Paintings...
Date: 2021-03-26 05:45 am (UTC)Haven't come across it yet, so I vote for confusion with Dad and his Potsdam Giants.
This said, I could always be wrong, and at any rate, one of my recently translated Glasow summaries mentions Fritz gave him a special splendid red uniform to wear (which given that it's singled out can't have been the standard uniform for chamber hussars, not least because the color is wrong). If he looked especially good in it and he was, as I suspect, the 1755/56 Alcibiades, then maybe?
Re: Speaking of Paintings...
Date: 2021-03-26 09:57 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of Paintings... and Dogs
Date: 2021-03-26 06:58 pm (UTC)Aww, nice! That must have been especially poignant after they died.
Just to avoid a misunderstanding here: the Yearbook doesn't say he had one, that was my own reaction to the discovery that there was a second dog painting, because I'd previously commented "I'm kind of surprised we don't have a whole gallery of his favourites." when I found the Biche one. So I was basically talking to myself, but two paintings is all I know of. (For now!)
Re: Speaking of Paintings... and Dogs
Date: 2021-03-26 07:01 pm (UTC)Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 05:25 am (UTC)clearly every painter needs random violinists in the backgroundnow I'm imagining Heinrich hanging out playing violin just to annoy FritzRe: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 07:50 am (UTC)Maybe Heinrich did. I do think the very successful Renaissance painters in their studiolos had some music, and also baroque superstars like Rubens might have, but don't hold me to it, I'm talking out of very distant memory here.Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 05:59 pm (UTC)Which Camas was a part of, too! Fritz mentions it a couple of times and doesn't write to him there in 1737 explicitely because he thinks that might get Camas into trouble. Not so in 1739 apparently.
But that reminds me, Kloosterhuis published a new book about the Tobacco Parliament (a revised version of his chapter in this 2020 FW essay collection, which Gambitten mentioned some time back ), more exactly: about the Lisiewski painting from 1736/37 you linked last post. He unearthed a list of names in the state archive, which had been dismissed as not reliable before, but he thinks it might go back to Heinrich, who owned the painting in the end and talked about it to people (see also this book review). Camas is on the list of participants, but no Grumbkow or Dessauer, which is a bit strange, but who knows. (See the first link for the other people allegedly in the painting.)
producing dreams like the one from the 7 Years War where he's brought to Magdeburg and accused of not loving his father enough
I think during the War, he was also pretty close with d'Argens? I seem to remember that he might have made a couple of Dad-critical comments towards him, but I don't think that counts as venting. And no Fredersdorf anymore. :( Now I'm wondering what the "not feeling good enough" combined with the way the war was going did to his thoughts on FW...
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-24 06:32 pm (UTC)he thinks it might go back to Heinrich, who owned the painting in the end and talked about it to people (see also this book review).
Having read the article you linked, I don't know whether it's Kloosterhuis or the Welt journalist paraphrasing him, but: the claim Heinrich "lived often in Wusterhausen in his old age" - "often" is pushing it. He moved into some rooms in 1799 (when I see he gave the painting to FW3, presumably because he found it moving in) and did intend to spend more time there because it was much closer to Berlin than Rheinsberg, so if he could have moved in more regularly it would have spared him a long way to and thro. But in the end it was too cold, and the whole purpose of another residence in your old age was not to be freezing, so he mostly kept switching between Berlin (winter) and Rheinsberg in the summer. If I remember my Ziebura correctly, he spent some weeks at Wusterhausen in 1799 and some weeks in 1800 there, and then basically gave up. (He died in 1802, at Rheinsberg.) All this being said, he was the methodical type, he knew he probably did not have much more time left, and it would make sense if he'd made a list to identify the people on the painting. There weren't many people left who could have, after all.
2. First link for identification: I see Kloosterhuis doesn't devote a chapter to the hare sitting on the opposite end of the table, and whom he might symbolize. Would probably spoil the image of the Tobacco College as a Sehnsuchtsort and place of comradely relaxation, she says snarkily. No Seckendorff is explainable in 1737/1738 - he was busy fighting with the Turks and then getting locked up because Austria fared badly in that war, only to be freed by MT once she came on the throne. And Seckendorff Jr. the nephew wasn't a Tobbaco Parliament regular. For Grumbkow, I don't have an explanation.
I think during the War, he was also pretty close with d'Argens? I seem to remember that he might have made a couple of Dad-critical comments towards him, but I don't think that counts as venting.
He was pretty close with D'Argens during the war, that's true, but I think - and I might be wrong, of course - he deliberately focused on talking to him about literature (and possip such as Émilie's love life) in order to have an escape from war thoughts. Talking about his father wouldn't have been an escape. Then again, I've never read the D'Argens letters, so what do I know? D'Argens was the one to hear that incredibly telling "...je erais sans souci" remark, after all.
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 05:23 am (UTC)Charlotte: *departs with letter*
Fritz. Dear Wilhelmine, Charlotte's the worst, a chronic sibling backstabber who even badmouths her own husband to Mom and Dad to boot!
FRIIIIIITZ
I mean, yes, Charlotte was clearly joking, but I can see why Anna Amalia still minded that designation and didn't forget it.
Oh hey, I recognize that: the "joke" that is more insulting than funny but one gets called sensitive if one objects to it! (I was not, in fact, the one accused of being "sensitive," but it took me more years than I'm comfortable admitting to figure out what was wrong with the whole setup.)
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 07:47 am (UTC)Oh yes, that mechanism rings very familiar. (Even before Rightwingers on both sides of the Atlantic perfected it, because isn't that behind the whole "snowflake" name calling by Republicans? Our bunch of Neonazis in parliament, the AFD, certainly does it all the time, first insult, then when called on it say that OF COURSE it was meant as a joke, why are people so over the top in their reactions etc etc.)
Anna Amalia was also the second daughter and her older sister was supposedly the brilliant one of her generation, to whom she was constantly compared. Well, in retrospect of course Anna Amalia had the last laugh in that she became the most famous of her generation of the entire family, brothers included, and no, that didn't just happen after her death. In the 1780s, Gleim, who had served in the 7 years War and written ultra patriotic "Fritz Forever!" poems then, wrote one addressed to Anna Amalia praising Weimar and ending on the verse "Berlin, you had your chance - Athens is here!", a judgment with whom posterity agreed for the years between Goethe's arrival and Schiller's death.
A bit more about Amalia the younger: she got married at 16, pregnant with Carl August at 17, pregnant again with her second son at 19 when her husband died, which made her (after some scheming of the most powerful minister to prevent it) regent of the duchy of Weimar. For which, of course, she had not been educated (she'd received a good education in terms of (French) literature and music, and heading a princely household, but not in governing, because woman. And the last will of her husband severely limited the kind of changes she could make during Carl August's minority (despite the fact reform was direly necessary). Then, no sooner had she started to settle into her role as Regent did Uncle Fritz want soldiers post haste because the 7 Years War was in full swing. Her mother Charlotte - whom she otherwise had a distant relationship with, her parent of choice was definitely her father - did help her then to bargain Fritz down to 150 soldiers though Amalia wasn't wrong when saying tiny Weimar couldn't even afford that many young and able men. Prussian recruiters showed up, Weimar men were told to go into hiding and not emerge until Prussian "recruiters" were gone again, and then were assured by their Duchess they wouldn't have to fear retaliations for showing up once more.
When Carl August achieved his majority and
fell in love with Goethebefriended Goethe, there was much surprise that Anna Amalia, who had ended up in a state of near constant argument with Carl August's main (political, not cultural) governor during CA's teenage years (either out of maternal jealousy or political reasons or both, depending on whom you ask), didn't object to this, and then Weimar gossip went into overdrive because it was noted young Goethe didn't just flirt with Charlotte von Stein (whom he as subsequent events showed was seriously in love with) but with Annna Amalia as well, within the bounds of courtly behavior, of course, but he was a commoner. And "Maman", as the wife of her arch enemy the political governor nicknamed her, was only in her thirties, because she'd given birth to Carl August so young, so even by the standards of the 1700s, she wasn't yet thought of as an old, over the hill woman. She certainly did flirt back, within courtly behavior. (And set some of Goethe's minor plays written for the court to music later.)Some years ago, a new tinhat theory emerged declaring that Charlotte von Stein was just the beard for a Goethe/Anna Amalia effair, and that the love letters and poems written during Goethe's first decade in Weimar were really adressed to her, which most biographers (including the one I've just read) make mincemeat of, not least because Goethe's love letters to Charlotte von Stein are very specifically talking to her, addressing matters like her son (called Fritz, btw, and partly raised in Goethe's house, though born long before he came to Weimar, so definitely not his son), and meetings and events at which Anna Amalia had not been present. Also, young Goethe on occasion could be reckless but definitely not suicidal, and one of the few things Carl August would NOT have forgiven him would be compromising his mother! And even Weimar gossip at the time, which was vicious (as poor Christiane later found out) doesn't claim an actual affair or even a mutual platonic relationship; it does claim Anna Amalia was jealous of Charlotte von Stein.
The biographer thinks that Anna Amalia undeniably had a soft spot for Goethe and might have enjoyed the flirting and courtoisie during the first few years with him more than with the other guys at court (for all that Carl August married quickly, his wife was overshadowed by his mother for the first twenty years or so), but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far), and that was as far as it went. Otoh, she did fall in love later when she went to Italy. Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Oh, and for context:
Goethe: after a decade in Weimar, takes off to Italy to rediscover himself as a poet and be free for the next two years.
Anna Amalia, after year 1: You know, his letters to Carl August make it sound like living in Italy is great. Maybe I should do that, too.
Weimar gossip: Clearly, she's pining for Goethe. Though competing with Italian beauties is even dumber than competing with Charlotte von Stein.
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
She did love it in Italy, though, and really enjoyed that she didn't just have the usual nobility and worthies to talk to, but also all the artists whom Goethe had befriended and connected her with via letters. She remained two years, too, with the main difference to most Germans travelling to Italy in the 18th century being that she liked Naples better than Rome (for the others, it was usually the other way around). Her circle in Naples didn't just include the scandalous Catholic bishop with whom she'd exchange love letters for the rest of their lives once she left Italy, but also Sir William Hamilton and Emma, and she and the bishop visited the evacations at Pompeji and Herculaneum as Wilhelmine had done with La Condamine. Like Wilhelmine, she only returned reluctantly and because her family was on the other side of the Alps. Just in time, though, because Napoleon was on his way to conquer Italy practically the moment she came back.
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 02:53 pm (UTC)Oh, and does scandalous Catholic bishop have a name? I'm curious. :D
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 04:20 pm (UTC)ETA: also, enjoy. :) (Lego Anna Amalia is neat!)
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 05:46 pm (UTC)Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-04-07 05:30 am (UTC)It makes total sense that she would have liked flirting with Goethe but not any farther than that.
but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far)
WORD. GO ANNA AMALIA. I'm so glad she got to do some fun stuff!
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
Ha! Very smart of you, Goethe and Anna Amalia :)
Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Okay, this is super awesome. Anna Amalia is the best. I mean, I guess it's sort of a sad story in the sense that it has to remain UST, but if you can't get married to your true love, the next best is love letters to a scandalous Catholic bishop for the rest of your life, I feel :)
ETA: So, does your biographer have any excerpts from these love letters?
Gossipy sensationalistinquiring minds want to know!Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-04-07 04:58 pm (UTC)