Fritz: Lotte, be a dear and smuggle this super secret letter to my old teacher Duhan for me, you know, the one Dad banished. And don't tell anyone.
Charlotte: *departs with letter*
Fritz. Dear Wilhelmine, Charlotte's the worst, a chronic sibling backstabber who even badmouths her own husband to Mom and Dad to boot!
FRIIIIIITZ
I mean, yes, Charlotte was clearly joking, but I can see why Anna Amalia still minded that designation and didn't forget it.
Oh hey, I recognize that: the "joke" that is more insulting than funny but one gets called sensitive if one objects to it! (I was not, in fact, the one accused of being "sensitive," but it took me more years than I'm comfortable admitting to figure out what was wrong with the whole setup.)
Oh hey, I recognize that: the "joke" that is more insulting than funny but one gets called sensitive if one objects to it!
Oh yes, that mechanism rings very familiar. (Even before Rightwingers on both sides of the Atlantic perfected it, because isn't that behind the whole "snowflake" name calling by Republicans? Our bunch of Neonazis in parliament, the AFD, certainly does it all the time, first insult, then when called on it say that OF COURSE it was meant as a joke, why are people so over the top in their reactions etc etc.)
Anna Amalia was also the second daughter and her older sister was supposedly the brilliant one of her generation, to whom she was constantly compared. Well, in retrospect of course Anna Amalia had the last laugh in that she became the most famous of her generation of the entire family, brothers included, and no, that didn't just happen after her death. In the 1780s, Gleim, who had served in the 7 years War and written ultra patriotic "Fritz Forever!" poems then, wrote one addressed to Anna Amalia praising Weimar and ending on the verse "Berlin, you had your chance - Athens is here!", a judgment with whom posterity agreed for the years between Goethe's arrival and Schiller's death.
A bit more about Amalia the younger: she got married at 16, pregnant with Carl August at 17, pregnant again with her second son at 19 when her husband died, which made her (after some scheming of the most powerful minister to prevent it) regent of the duchy of Weimar. For which, of course, she had not been educated (she'd received a good education in terms of (French) literature and music, and heading a princely household, but not in governing, because woman. And the last will of her husband severely limited the kind of changes she could make during Carl August's minority (despite the fact reform was direly necessary). Then, no sooner had she started to settle into her role as Regent did Uncle Fritz want soldiers post haste because the 7 Years War was in full swing. Her mother Charlotte - whom she otherwise had a distant relationship with, her parent of choice was definitely her father - did help her then to bargain Fritz down to 150 soldiers though Amalia wasn't wrong when saying tiny Weimar couldn't even afford that many young and able men. Prussian recruiters showed up, Weimar men were told to go into hiding and not emerge until Prussian "recruiters" were gone again, and then were assured by their Duchess they wouldn't have to fear retaliations for showing up once more.
When Carl August achieved his majority and fell in love with Goethe befriended Goethe, there was much surprise that Anna Amalia, who had ended up in a state of near constant argument with Carl August's main (political, not cultural) governor during CA's teenage years (either out of maternal jealousy or political reasons or both, depending on whom you ask), didn't object to this, and then Weimar gossip went into overdrive because it was noted young Goethe didn't just flirt with Charlotte von Stein (whom he as subsequent events showed was seriously in love with) but with Annna Amalia as well, within the bounds of courtly behavior, of course, but he was a commoner. And "Maman", as the wife of her arch enemy the political governor nicknamed her, was only in her thirties, because she'd given birth to Carl August so young, so even by the standards of the 1700s, she wasn't yet thought of as an old, over the hill woman. She certainly did flirt back, within courtly behavior. (And set some of Goethe's minor plays written for the court to music later.)
Some years ago, a new tinhat theory emerged declaring that Charlotte von Stein was just the beard for a Goethe/Anna Amalia effair, and that the love letters and poems written during Goethe's first decade in Weimar were really adressed to her, which most biographers (including the one I've just read) make mincemeat of, not least because Goethe's love letters to Charlotte von Stein are very specifically talking to her, addressing matters like her son (called Fritz, btw, and partly raised in Goethe's house, though born long before he came to Weimar, so definitely not his son), and meetings and events at which Anna Amalia had not been present. Also, young Goethe on occasion could be reckless but definitely not suicidal, and one of the few things Carl August would NOT have forgiven him would be compromising his mother! And even Weimar gossip at the time, which was vicious (as poor Christiane later found out) doesn't claim an actual affair or even a mutual platonic relationship; it does claim Anna Amalia was jealous of Charlotte von Stein.
The biographer thinks that Anna Amalia undeniably had a soft spot for Goethe and might have enjoyed the flirting and courtoisie during the first few years with him more than with the other guys at court (for all that Carl August married quickly, his wife was overshadowed by his mother for the first twenty years or so), but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far), and that was as far as it went. Otoh, she did fall in love later when she went to Italy. Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Oh, and for context:
Goethe: after a decade in Weimar, takes off to Italy to rediscover himself as a poet and be free for the next two years.
Anna Amalia, after year 1: You know, his letters to Carl August make it sound like living in Italy is great. Maybe I should do that, too.
Weimar gossip: Clearly, she's pining for Goethe. Though competing with Italian beauties is even dumber than competing with Charlotte von Stein.
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
She did love it in Italy, though, and really enjoyed that she didn't just have the usual nobility and worthies to talk to, but also all the artists whom Goethe had befriended and connected her with via letters. She remained two years, too, with the main difference to most Germans travelling to Italy in the 18th century being that she liked Naples better than Rome (for the others, it was usually the other way around). Her circle in Naples didn't just include the scandalous Catholic bishop with whom she'd exchange love letters for the rest of their lives once she left Italy, but also Sir William Hamilton and Emma, and she and the bishop visited the evacations at Pompeji and Herculaneum as Wilhelmine had done with La Condamine. Like Wilhelmine, she only returned reluctantly and because her family was on the other side of the Alps. Just in time, though, because Napoleon was on his way to conquer Italy practically the moment she came back.
I swear I thought I had responded to this, because this is awesome. Like felis, everything I hear about Anna Amalia makes me like her more. She's the true hero of this family :D
It makes total sense that she would have liked flirting with Goethe but not any farther than that.
but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far)
WORD. GO ANNA AMALIA. I'm so glad she got to do some fun stuff!
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
Ha! Very smart of you, Goethe and Anna Amalia :)
Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Okay, this is super awesome. Anna Amalia is the best. I mean, I guess it's sort of a sad story in the sense that it has to remain UST, but if you can't get married to your true love, the next best is love letters to a scandalous Catholic bishop for the rest of your life, I feel :)
ETA: So, does your biographer have any excerpts from these love letters? Gossipy sensationalist inquiring minds want to know!
She did, but the biography is back at the library, since I ordered new books. (You can only take up to six at a time in covid-life.) If the libraries are more open again in May, I'll see what I can do. :)
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timeasmymeasure
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 05:23 am (UTC)Charlotte: *departs with letter*
Fritz. Dear Wilhelmine, Charlotte's the worst, a chronic sibling backstabber who even badmouths her own husband to Mom and Dad to boot!
FRIIIIIITZ
I mean, yes, Charlotte was clearly joking, but I can see why Anna Amalia still minded that designation and didn't forget it.
Oh hey, I recognize that: the "joke" that is more insulting than funny but one gets called sensitive if one objects to it! (I was not, in fact, the one accused of being "sensitive," but it took me more years than I'm comfortable admitting to figure out what was wrong with the whole setup.)
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 07:47 am (UTC)Oh yes, that mechanism rings very familiar. (Even before Rightwingers on both sides of the Atlantic perfected it, because isn't that behind the whole "snowflake" name calling by Republicans? Our bunch of Neonazis in parliament, the AFD, certainly does it all the time, first insult, then when called on it say that OF COURSE it was meant as a joke, why are people so over the top in their reactions etc etc.)
Anna Amalia was also the second daughter and her older sister was supposedly the brilliant one of her generation, to whom she was constantly compared. Well, in retrospect of course Anna Amalia had the last laugh in that she became the most famous of her generation of the entire family, brothers included, and no, that didn't just happen after her death. In the 1780s, Gleim, who had served in the 7 years War and written ultra patriotic "Fritz Forever!" poems then, wrote one addressed to Anna Amalia praising Weimar and ending on the verse "Berlin, you had your chance - Athens is here!", a judgment with whom posterity agreed for the years between Goethe's arrival and Schiller's death.
A bit more about Amalia the younger: she got married at 16, pregnant with Carl August at 17, pregnant again with her second son at 19 when her husband died, which made her (after some scheming of the most powerful minister to prevent it) regent of the duchy of Weimar. For which, of course, she had not been educated (she'd received a good education in terms of (French) literature and music, and heading a princely household, but not in governing, because woman. And the last will of her husband severely limited the kind of changes she could make during Carl August's minority (despite the fact reform was direly necessary). Then, no sooner had she started to settle into her role as Regent did Uncle Fritz want soldiers post haste because the 7 Years War was in full swing. Her mother Charlotte - whom she otherwise had a distant relationship with, her parent of choice was definitely her father - did help her then to bargain Fritz down to 150 soldiers though Amalia wasn't wrong when saying tiny Weimar couldn't even afford that many young and able men. Prussian recruiters showed up, Weimar men were told to go into hiding and not emerge until Prussian "recruiters" were gone again, and then were assured by their Duchess they wouldn't have to fear retaliations for showing up once more.
When Carl August achieved his majority and
fell in love with Goethebefriended Goethe, there was much surprise that Anna Amalia, who had ended up in a state of near constant argument with Carl August's main (political, not cultural) governor during CA's teenage years (either out of maternal jealousy or political reasons or both, depending on whom you ask), didn't object to this, and then Weimar gossip went into overdrive because it was noted young Goethe didn't just flirt with Charlotte von Stein (whom he as subsequent events showed was seriously in love with) but with Annna Amalia as well, within the bounds of courtly behavior, of course, but he was a commoner. And "Maman", as the wife of her arch enemy the political governor nicknamed her, was only in her thirties, because she'd given birth to Carl August so young, so even by the standards of the 1700s, she wasn't yet thought of as an old, over the hill woman. She certainly did flirt back, within courtly behavior. (And set some of Goethe's minor plays written for the court to music later.)Some years ago, a new tinhat theory emerged declaring that Charlotte von Stein was just the beard for a Goethe/Anna Amalia effair, and that the love letters and poems written during Goethe's first decade in Weimar were really adressed to her, which most biographers (including the one I've just read) make mincemeat of, not least because Goethe's love letters to Charlotte von Stein are very specifically talking to her, addressing matters like her son (called Fritz, btw, and partly raised in Goethe's house, though born long before he came to Weimar, so definitely not his son), and meetings and events at which Anna Amalia had not been present. Also, young Goethe on occasion could be reckless but definitely not suicidal, and one of the few things Carl August would NOT have forgiven him would be compromising his mother! And even Weimar gossip at the time, which was vicious (as poor Christiane later found out) doesn't claim an actual affair or even a mutual platonic relationship; it does claim Anna Amalia was jealous of Charlotte von Stein.
The biographer thinks that Anna Amalia undeniably had a soft spot for Goethe and might have enjoyed the flirting and courtoisie during the first few years with him more than with the other guys at court (for all that Carl August married quickly, his wife was overshadowed by his mother for the first twenty years or so), but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far), and that was as far as it went. Otoh, she did fall in love later when she went to Italy. Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Oh, and for context:
Goethe: after a decade in Weimar, takes off to Italy to rediscover himself as a poet and be free for the next two years.
Anna Amalia, after year 1: You know, his letters to Carl August make it sound like living in Italy is great. Maybe I should do that, too.
Weimar gossip: Clearly, she's pining for Goethe. Though competing with Italian beauties is even dumber than competing with Charlotte von Stein.
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
She did love it in Italy, though, and really enjoyed that she didn't just have the usual nobility and worthies to talk to, but also all the artists whom Goethe had befriended and connected her with via letters. She remained two years, too, with the main difference to most Germans travelling to Italy in the 18th century being that she liked Naples better than Rome (for the others, it was usually the other way around). Her circle in Naples didn't just include the scandalous Catholic bishop with whom she'd exchange love letters for the rest of their lives once she left Italy, but also Sir William Hamilton and Emma, and she and the bishop visited the evacations at Pompeji and Herculaneum as Wilhelmine had done with La Condamine. Like Wilhelmine, she only returned reluctantly and because her family was on the other side of the Alps. Just in time, though, because Napoleon was on his way to conquer Italy practically the moment she came back.
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 02:53 pm (UTC)Oh, and does scandalous Catholic bishop have a name? I'm curious. :D
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 04:20 pm (UTC)ETA: also, enjoy. :) (Lego Anna Amalia is neat!)
Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-03-26 05:46 pm (UTC)Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-04-07 05:30 am (UTC)It makes total sense that she would have liked flirting with Goethe but not any farther than that.
but then she treated being free of the regency like the first time she was able to enjoy her life anyway (no wonder, given her life so far)
WORD. GO ANNA AMALIA. I'm so glad she got to do some fun stuff!
Goethe: I really like you and will work out a complete travel plan with the addresses of all my new friends for you. *couches the next in a much more diplomatic form, but what it boils down to is*: But please don't start your journey until I'm leaving. The whole point of me being in Italy is being free of all things Weimar.
Anna Amalia: *starts her journey only when Goethe is on his journey back*
Ha! Very smart of you, Goethe and Anna Amalia :)
Whom did she fall in love with? With a Catholic bishop who had scandalized the Vatican by openly campaigning against celibacy, not in a having-affairs-on-the-side way but in a "celibacy is an outdated custom and we need to reform the church and get rid of it!" pamphlet writing way.
Okay, this is super awesome. Anna Amalia is the best. I mean, I guess it's sort of a sad story in the sense that it has to remain UST, but if you can't get married to your true love, the next best is love letters to a scandalous Catholic bishop for the rest of your life, I feel :)
ETA: So, does your biographer have any excerpts from these love letters?
Gossipy sensationalistinquiring minds want to know!Re: More on Hohenzollern family life
Date: 2021-04-07 04:58 pm (UTC)