The Jewish War: First half of Book 2

[cahn]

Last week: Discussion on how Herod stacked up against various Roman emperors in terms of body count of his nearest and dearest; how Friedrich Wilhelm might hear the Josephus text; Herod throwing money around; Cleopatra!

This week: ...uhhhh there was a lot going on and I haven't actually finished the reading yet *ducks* -- I am doing that right now and I should most likely be able to comment tomorrow. (I don't anticipate this being a problem again for at least two more months, and most likely not then either; this was a confluence of various time sinks that doesn't usually happen all at the same time.) But I wanted to go ahead and get the post up because I know you guys have read it... (ETA: have finished the reading now :P :) )

Next week: finishing up Book 2!

Comments

Praetorians

[cahn]

Enter the DEFINITELY NOT AN ARMY Praetorians, the only military guys allowed to carry weapons within Rome.

Ahhhh wow! okay!

It's the Praetorians who after Caligula's assassination pick Claudius as his successor.

Ohhhh. Why?

In the subsequent decades and especially once the Third Century Crisis starts and Emperors start to drop like flies as general after general tries his luck, the city of Rome loses is importance other than the symbolic one entirely, it's no longer the seat of government, and so what some guys playing soldiers within it think doesn't matter anymore.

Oh wow, okay!

I really appreciate all these writeups. I feel like with each one of them I'm getting a sliiiiightly better sense of what's going on with Rome (when you wrote your fic for Mildred I really had no idea :) )

Re: Praetorians

[selenak]

The Praetorians & Claudius: for starters, he was the only male adult of the family left. (And the other male was little Nero, whose mother Agrippina was currently in exile on an island. Kid!Nero was living with one of his paternal aunts.) The Praetorians wanted to get paid. If the Senate picked a non-Julian-Claudian as Princeps or went back to a Republic of sorts (in retrospect, the assassination of Caligula was probably the last time this could have happened, though then we'd still be back to the same old problems of the late Republic), the Praetorians might get dissolved instead of paid. The scene where they drag Claudius from literally behind a curtain where he was hiding when all hell broke loose (unsuprisingly so, given that not just his nephew Gaius Caligula but also Caligula's wife Caesonia and toddler daughter got killed and it must have looked like a free for all slaughter) and present him to the Senate as the new Princeps is one of the great blackly comical set pieces in Suetonius. Claudius then became the first Emperor to do what all the subsequent Emperors had to do, which was to significantly raise the pay of the Praetorians, all of them, not just the boss, on the occasion of his accession to the throne.

(This said: Emma Southon is sideeying the "poor old Claudius didn't want to be Emperor and got dragged from behind a curtain" story and speculates that he might have been in communication with the Praetorians before nephew Caligula got assassinated. If so, there was no proof, so it's pure speculation.)

In I, Claudius he does get dragged from behind the curtain, and it's bleakly ironic that he would have been on board with the return of the Republic thing if only the Senators had told him ahead of time, but as it is he doesn't want to get killed by the Praetorians and so becomes Emperor. The scene where he goes from being seen as Claudius the idiot to taking control of the Senate, revealing he's faked his "harmless fool" persona (in addition to the very real physical handicaps) in order to remain alive in his murderous family, is a wonderful acting showcase for Derek Jacobi, of course. Long before the tv show was made, there was an attempt by Alexander Korda to film I, Claudius as an epic movie, but alas it fell apart due to a combination of finances and sick leading lady (Merle Oberon as Messalina). But he did get to film the scene where Claudius, played by Charles Laughton, sheds his Poor Uncle Claudius persona and takes control of the senate as well, and Laughton is fantastic in it, and makes one deeply regret the movie never was finished. You can watch the scene here.

Re: Praetorians

[cahn]

the Praetorians might get dissolved instead of paid

Ohhhhh. That makes a lot of sense.

The scene where they drag Claudius from literally behind a curtain where he was hiding when all hell broke loose

Ahhhh -- this is maybe the only thing I remember from Graves! I really need to read it again.

and it's bleakly ironic that he would have been on board with the return of the Republic thing if only the Senators had told him ahead of time, but as it is he doesn't want to get killed by the Praetorians and so becomes Emperor.

This I didn't remember :) (And, idk, maybe didn't even pick up on at the time -- I was pretty young when I read it.)

But he did get to film the scene where Claudius, played by Charles Laughton, sheds his Poor Uncle Claudius persona and takes control of the senate as well, and Laughton is fantastic in it, and makes one deeply regret the movie never was finished.

Thank you for the link! That was indeed quite impressive.