The Jewish War: Second half of Book 1

[cahn]

Last week: Some really interesting discussions on (among other things) Caesar Augustus, the temple in Egypt, and the destruction of the temple (in Jerusalem) as divine punishment and also free will.

This week: More Herod! Definitely went quite a bit faster than last week! Featuring lots and lots of family drama... the kind that includes a ton of bloodshed. I'll talk more about it in comments.

Next week: selenak can you give us a halfway point for Book 2? It looks a bit shorter but I'm also going to be crunched for time next week (and definitely won't be able to post until Sunday) so half a book is what it's going to have to be! ETA: Death of Emperor Claudius!

Comments

[selenak]

Mind you, I'm completely willing to believe Herod had been in ill health for some time (it would have contributed to his mood and paranoia) by the time of his death, but it's also a general literary trope then and now that evil tyrants have to do die either violently, or, if they do die of natural causes, off extremely painful illnesses with a suspicion of poison. I can understand the emotional need to believe that evil tyrants get punished SOMEHOW, but... given more recent centuries contain ample demonstrations of tyrants dying in bed without horrible pain beforehand, it does make one a tad sceptical whenever this occurs in ancient history.

BTW, this whole "tyrants must die a horribly painful death or else violently" trope makes me curious what to make of Alexander's death. Because on the one hand, he is THE role model for every conquest-minded monarch thereafter, the kingly pin-up of the ancient world. Some of the surviving historians - which, to remind you, are none of them contemporary, they write hundreds of years after the fact because none of the contemporary histories survive - are more critical than others, but he's still by and large presented as a heroic, positive figure, with any non-heroic traits in typical xenophobia being blamed on prolonged exposure to Persian cultural influence. On the other hand - his death as presented by ancient historians fits actually perfectly with the tyrant trope. It's prolonged and extremely painful, with some of the usual poison rumours, it comes after he's become increasingly isolated and prone to violent lashings out, and while in theory he leaves his Empire to a biological heir, in practice it splits apart almost immediately, and within the next two decades, his entire biological family will get wiped out by his own generals.

Alexander's death

[cahn]

huh, interesting! How does Plutarch treat the parallel between Alexander and whoever it is he's comparing Alexander to?

Re: Alexander's death

[selenak]

Wellllllll, the guy he's comparing Alexander to is one Caesar, Gaius Julius Caesar. Whose ending is one of the most famous deaths in history. Unfortunately, though, the direct comparison at the end of those lives has been lost. The editor of the edition with which you gifted me thinks:

"Whereas Alexander destroyed himself, Caesar is destroyed by forces outside himself which he cannot control Alexander is suspicious and harsh, seeing plot where they do not exists; Caesar is too forgiving of his former enemies and fails to take seriously warnings of a very real plot against his life. Alexander at the end of his life is increasingly superstitious; Caesar is dismissive of omens and warnings. In "Alexander" the pricise role, if any, played by the supernatural is left unclear. In "Caesar", on the other hand, Plutarch is unequivocal that the divine had a hand both in Caesar's murder and in the punishing of his murders."