cahn | Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 39

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Last post, along with the usual 18th-century suspects, included the Ottonians; changing ideas of conception and women's sexual pleasure; Isabella of Parma (the one who fell in love, and vice versa, with her husband's sister); Henry IV and Bertha (and Henry's second wife divorcing him for "unspeakable sexual acts"). (Okay, Isabella of Parma was 18th century.)

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From:

cahn

with Ottavio claiming he'd had her in the wedding night and Margaret scornfully saying he only wet himself, which he never forgave her for.

this is still hilarious to me, ngl

But the guy who concerns us now is Ottavio's father and the Pope's son, Pier Luigi.

Uhhhh I blame the discussion of Pope Joan in the previous post, but for a second I misparsed that as [Ottavio's father's and the Pope's] son and did a double take :)

Essentially: raping a young bishop to death.

Me: WHAT

If I canne not obteyne by fayre meanes, I intende to use your helpe, and have it by force.

Wow, that is... something else! (Definitely sounds like the villain in a melodrama rather than a real person. As you and mildred say.)

So if I were a member of the jury, I might not think there's enough to convict, but I would have still my doubts Pier Luigi didn't do something that people noticed. Not a gang rape or a gang beating with ensueing rape, maybe, but he could have made a pass?

...sounds reasonable!

From:

selenak

this is still hilarious to me, ngl

Oh, same here. I mean, it's slightly unfair of me re: teenage Ottavio, who I'm sure was under a lot of pressure from his family and was shamed afterwards for, err, not performing, given his father (whether or not his father was a bishop rapist, he certainly had lots of sex with both genders). But because of the social rules of the day, first teenage and then adult Ottavia was given complete power over his wife, and so my sympathies will always be with Margaret first.

(And I'm really glad she won Grandfather Pope's sympathies, which allowed her to be first lady of Rome socially, learn a lot and be talked into sleeping with Ottavia seven years later, as opposed to being forced to have sex with him as her wifely duty right then and there, which I'm sure would have been Pier Luigi's idea of how to solve the Ottavio/Margaret problem.)