cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 30

In which, despite the title, I would like to be told about the English Revolution, which is yet another casualty of my extremely poor history education :P :)

Also, this is probably the place to say that RMSE opened with three Fritz-fics, all of which I think are readable with minimum canon knowledge:

The Boy Who Lived - if you knew about the doomed escape-from-Prussia-that-didn't happen and tragic death of Fritz's boyfriend Hans Hermann von Katte, you may not have known about Peter Keith, the third young man who conspired to escape Prussia -- and the only one who actually did. This is his story. I think readable without canon knowledge except what I just said here.

Challenge Yourself to Relax - My gift, I posted about this before! Corporate AU with my problematic fave, Fritz' brother Heinrich, who's still Fritz's l'autre moi-meme even in corporate AU. Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with the corporate world and the dysfunctions thereof.

The Rise and Fall of the RendezvousWithFame Exchange - Fandom AU with BNF fanfic writer Voltaire, exchange mod Fritz, and the inevitable meltdown. (I wrote this one and am quite proud of the terrible physics-adjacent pun contained within.) Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with fandom and the dysfunctions thereof :P

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From:

selenak

Primary sources: some of the people involved, and C2 himself, who told diarist Samuel Pepys when returning to Britain on the journey across the channel, and Pepys noted it down in his diary.

So, when Dad C1 got executed, young C2 made one last attempt to retake the kingdom by allying with the Scots. He promptly got defeated by Cromwell at Worcester. (C2 learned lesson of the day: Cromwell is a way better general. If you ever want your kingdom back, it can't happen via conquest. C2 learned that lesson and waited till Cromwell was dead, his son sucked at the Protector job, and popular support for the Bring Back The Monarchy idea was overwhelming.) But back to the days when C2 was a young pub, who got defeated, and whose Dad had just been executed, meaning C2's future life span was less than assured. Also a £1000 reward was announced for information leading to Charles's capture.

C2: has about 60 people with him. (They'll be way less by the end, as a discreet number, this was not)

Lord Derby: So, there's this secret Catholic network. We should use that! I did myself more recently.

Gang of 60: *shows up at White Ladies*

Secret Catholic Pendrell brothers: Sure, we'll help! Anything for the martyr's son. But you need to switch outfits. Would you be okay with disguising yourself as a farm laborer?

C2: Will do, and also, we'll never make it if we remain together. Everyone, I appreciate your loyalty, but we need to split up. I'll go alone, aside from Lord Wilmot.

Lord Wilmot: *is famous for this and for being the father of the most infamous rake of the Restoration, Rochester*

C2 and Wilmot: *get their hair cut, - long hair being a sign of the nobility -, get put in farmer outfits, and get a crash class in how to talk none-posh*

Pendrell brothers: One big problem. As in, a huge problem. You, C2, are a man so tall that unborn FW's heart would beat faster and he'd conscript you immediately. There aren't many people your size in England, which makes you stand out. Also, your feet are accordingly large. And we don't have boots your size. Meanig you have wear shoes which are several sizes too small.

C2: An escaping uncrowned king's gotta do what an escaping uncrowned king's gotta do.

C2: *has bleeding and sore feet very quickly, but manages to keep going for three days before getting somewhere where it was possible to bind them and get other shoes*

In between:

Cromwell's soldiers: *show up in pursuit*

C2: *hiding in the woods*

Rain: *falls, which C2 later concluded was why the hiding worked*

Miller: Provides an old horse, so C2 has no longer to walk

Horse: *stumbles*

Pendrell brother: "No wonder, it bears the weight of three kingdoms on its back!"

(England, Scotland and France, if you're wondering. At this point, the British kings still called themselves "Kings of France". They'd keep doing that until Team Hannover got the crown and finally ditched that claim and the lily from the heralds)

Moseley Hall: C2 gets dry clothes and a meal, but Cromwell's soldiers arrive, so he has to hide in a "priest hole", one of those hiding places for Catholic priests first established when E1 reigned*

C2: *there meets also hiding Father Huddleston; when he finally converts to Catholicism on his deathbed, he will do so with said Father Huddleston as his admininstring priest, though how sincere that final conversion was is debated to this day*

C2: *adopts a new disguise, that of servant William Jackson who works for a lady named Jane Lane, who volunteered to bring him to Bristol*

C2 and Jane, riding on a horse together: *horse loses a shoe*

C2, in his diguise as a servant, takes the horse to a blacksmith:

C2, twelve years later, to Sam Pepys: ""As I was holding my horse's foot, I asked the smith what news. He told me that there was no news that he knew of, since the good news of the beating the rogues of the Scots. I asked him whether there was none of the English taken that joined with the Scots, He answered he did not hear if that rogue, Charles Stuart, were taken; but some of the others, he said, were taken. I told him that if that rogue were taken, he deserved to be hanged more than all the rest, for bringing in the Scots. Upon which he said I spoke like an honest man; and so we parted"

C2 and Jane Lane arrive at Long Marston where they stay at a relation of Jane's.

C2, posing as servant, gets put to work in the Kitchen.

Cook: You, wind up the jack! (Used to roast the meat in the fireplace)

C2: *has never done this before*

Cook: What kind of loser servant are you?

C2: I'm the son of people so poor that we hardly ever eat meat! That's why I've never used a roasting jack before!

Cook: *accepts that story*

Jane Lane and C2: *arrive at Bristol, stay at a family called the Nortons, who aren't told who C2 is*

The Nortons' butler: I'm an ex Royalist Soldier. You're totally C2, aren't you?

C2: I am.

Butler: I won't tell, and I'll check to see whether any ship leaves for France.

Next Ship for France: Won't leave for another month*

Wilmot: Okay, we can't stay here for another month.

C2: The daughter of my former nurse married a guy who lives about 40 miles from here, we could stay at here place.

They're about to leave, when:

Their hostess, Mrs. Norton: *goes into labor*

Mr. Norton: Jane Lane, as a woman, you'll surely stay and help my wife, won't you?

Jane: Err...

Pope the butler, the Jeeves of his time: *forges a letter from Jane's father saying he's seriously ill and she needs to come to him IMMEDIATELY+

Jane, C2 and Wilmot: *leave*

The gang arrives at Trent House, home of the daughter of C2's ex nurse and deflowerer.

Lord of the Manor: Good news! A tenant of mine sails for St. Malo next week! You and Wilmot can pose as merchants hunting down a debtor. But you need to switch women to escape with as cover; my niece Juliana volunteers*

Wilmot's horse: *loses a shoe*

Wilmot: *gets recognized by a Parliamentarian soldier at the blacksmith's*

Escape: is afoot again!

Wilmot and C2: stay overnight at the George Inn, Charmouth

50 Soldiers: Also arrive there.

Luckily for C2: A woman with them (the soldiers, that is) goes into labor

C2 and Wilmot: *make their escape in the commotion before anyone can recognize them (again)*

C2, Wilmot and Juliana: *go to Salisbury next; C2 also visits Stonehenge, because why not*

Wilmot: finds a Captain who agrees to take them to France on his coal boat for 80 pounds

Captain Tatersell, when he sees C2: WTF? That's C2! I want danger money! 200 pounds!

C2: Done.

Coal boat Surprise: Leaves with C2 and Wilmot, arrives safely in France.

Fritz: Some people have all the luck!

ETA: On his return to England in 1660, C2 granted a variety of annuities and gifts to some of the people who had aided him, including the Pendrell brothers and Jane Lane. Thomas Whitgreave and Richard Pendrell received annual pensions of £200, with £100 to be paid to the descendants of Richard Pendrell in perpetuity. The other Pendrell brothers received lesser pensions. Pensions to the Penderels (an alternate spelling of Pendrell) are still being paid to a number of descendants today. (Jane Lane doesn't have still living descendants.)

Edited Date: 2021-09-09 05:05 pm (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Honestly, I think the University of Selena should be given accreditation and allowed to confer degrees. :D

From:

cahn

RIGHT??

From:

cahn

This is my absolute favorite and I am dying that two different things blew up this evening (nothing terrible, but I have to go attend to them instead of talking about this which I would MUCH rather do) and I will get to this hopefully soon but in the meantime let me just say here hastily that a) you are AMAZING and b) C2 comes out pretty great here :D

From:

selenak

Brushing up on the escape tale again, I found myself wondering why no one ever did a grand action movie based on it, because it does have every ingredient. I know Georgette Heyer wrote a novel focused on Jane Lane - "The Royal Escape" or something like that - and googling tells me independent from this there's a movie "The Moonraker" from 1958, but there the main character is a fictional guy who in yet another version of the Zorro/Scarlet Pimpernel/Bruce Wayne ploy is a foolish nobleman by day, daring highyway man by night and singlehandedly manages Charles' escape. But a film based on the escape without such a fictional character insert does not seem to exist.

From:

cahn

It really does seem like it has everything! IDK either why there's no action movie of this.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

It was my absolute favorite too, as you can tell by the fact that it was the one I picked to dash off a sentence in reply to in the middle of my super busy work day. Hoping to reply more fully today or this weekend!

Also hoping to pick up the Pfeiffer research that I intended to do last weekend but couldn't because sciatica. (I also owe Mobster Author comments on a fic she finished writing for me last weekend!) Towards that end, Selena, help me out: what does the "Anz" in "Allg. litt. Anz." stand for, where that's the title of a book, most likely a bibliographical dictionary?

let me just say here hastily that a) you are AMAZING and b) C2 comes out pretty great here :D

Let me also say this hastily!

ETA: And speaking of weekend plans, this weekend I'm spot-checking digitized books before throwing out the pages, next weekend I'm spot-checking digitized books, and the following weekend I should be done (fingers crossed) and will be scanning the books that I found needed to be rescanned. That means in two weeks I'll probably be scanning Trench Warfare (which arrived yesterday) for you,

cahn, and, depending on how time-consuming the other stuff I need to scan is, getting started on converting Wilhelmine's travel diary into a readable format for us. I have not forgotten!

Edited Date: 2021-09-10 01:26 pm (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

In case this got lost in the wall of text:

what does the "Anz" in "Allg. litt. Anz." stand for, where that's the title of a book, most likely a bibliographical dictionary?

Help an American detective out?

From:

selenak

Alas I can only guess. "Anzeige"? Allg. is allgemeine, and litt., literarische, but I haven't come across the shortening anz. before, and an up to date tips for new students (hasn't really changed since my time) on how to properly annotate doesn't contain it, either.

Re: FW awfulness reminder, and books

From:

mildred_of_midgard - Date: 2021-09-23 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: FW awfulness reminder, and books

From:

mildred_of_midgard - Date: 2021-09-22 08:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

mildred_of_midgard

So while I knew the general outlines of this part of history, I certainly didn't know this level of detail, so thank you for teaching us, and especially thank you for telling it in gripping narrative form!

One big problem. As in, a huge problem. You, C2, are a man so tall that unborn FW's heart would beat faster and he'd conscript you immediately.

I laughed SO hard.

Cook: You, wind up the jack! (Used to roast the meat in the fireplace)

C2: *has never done this before*

Cook: What kind of loser servant are you?

C2: I'm the son of people so poor that we hardly ever eat meat! That's why I've never used a roasting jack before!

Cook: *accepts that story*

This is greeeeat! And of course reminds me of Alfred the Great getting his ears boxed.

Mr. Norton: Jane Lane, as a woman, you'll surely stay and help my wife, won't you?

Jane: Err...

Pope the butler, the Jeeves of his time: *forges a letter from Jane's father saying he's seriously ill and she needs to come to him IMMEDIATELY+

Hahaha, good for 17th century Jeeves.

C2 also visits Stonehenge, because why not

Lol, omg, I was not expecting this!

Fritz: Some people have all the luck!

:(((

So I probably won't be able to reply in detail to the other posts, because German + 18C reading + my own post backlog (omg), but as always, I read and I learn and I admire! <3 (And as always, I'm grateful to

cahn for the indispensible contribution of asking all the questions I never knew I always wanted answered. :D)

From:

selenak

Re: C2's height, to be more precise and less funny, he was 6' 2" tall (1.88 metres), at a time when average male height in England was 5' 6". He also had inherited Mediterrenean coloring from the maternal side of the family, i.e. he didn't just have black hair, he also had skin coloring that was described as "swarthy" by contemporaries and "olive-skinned" by novelists, also something less than usual in England at this point in history. All of which was noted in the "Wanted!" descriptions given, so him posing as a servant really must have been a life saver.

Since you are a fan of maps. Today, Charles' convoluted 40 days escape route makes for a popular hiking trip, and a website detailing it has a map:

Some more detailed accounts of Charles' escape online: See here and here.

Slight parallels to the Alfred story: LOL, yes. Conclusion: don't hire escaping royals to do the cooking! If you do write your Fritz escapes AU, keep him far from the kitchen.

Stonehenge: Yeah, I know. When I read "Though sleeping at Heale, Charles spent his days at Stonehenge, returning to the house each evening after dark", I knew I had to include this touristy escapade. I mean, I sympathize. Stonehenge is quite something! And he may have been aware he'd never get the chance again, even if he regained his throne. (Salisbury: not a typical place to visit for Kings on progress.) But still.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Re: C2's height, to be more precise and less funny, he was 6' 2" tall (1.88 metres), at a time when average male height in England was 5' 6".

Which, to be more precise and less funny, is just over the 6' cutoff for the Potsdam Giants, so while FW would definitely have kidnapped him, C2 wouldn't have stood out in the crowd of giants.

I am a fan of maps, thank you!

Slight parallels to the Alfred story: LOL, yes. Conclusion: don't hire escaping royals to do the cooking! If you do write your Fritz escapes AU, keep him far from the kitchen.

A shame Louis XV never had to escape! He was, as we learned, the monarch who took up cooking as his hobby and learned, among other things, to make omelettes.

From:

cahn

(C2 learned lesson of the day: Cromwell is a way better general. If you ever want your kingdom back, it can't happen via conquest. C2 learned that lesson and waited till Cromwell was dead, his son sucked at the Protector job, and popular support for the Bring Back The Monarchy idea was overwhelming.)

I mean, I like the competent! :D

One big problem. As in, a huge problem. You, C2, are a man so tall that unborn FW's heart would beat faster and he'd conscript you immediately.

LOOOOOL

C2: *has bleeding and sore feet very quickly, but manages to keep going for three days before getting somewhere where it was possible to bind them and get other shoes*

AND he's persistent. This escape attempt, as you say below, really does have everything!!

England, Scotland and France, if you're wondering.

Yes I was, thank you!

so he has to hide in a "priest hole", one of those hiding places for Catholic priests first established when E1 reigned*

Ohhhhhh! I've read (presumably period) books where priest holes were a thing, but I never knew how they came about or why they were called priest holes!

*there meets also hiding Father Huddleston; when he finally converts to Catholicism on his deathbed, he will do so with said Father Huddleston as his admininstring priest, though how sincere that final conversion was is debated to this day*

OKAY I need more detail here!! Why did he convert?? Was it his mom again?? Why would it or wouldn't have been sincere??

"I told him that if that rogue were taken, he deserved to be hanged more than all the rest, for bringing in the Scots. Upon which he said I spoke like an honest man; and so we parted"

I think this is my favorite part of the BEST ESCAPE STORY, honestly. Charles! Also I absolutely adore that the "disguise person who stands out as servant to hide them because no one ever looks twice at servants" trope, which I love, is here and that it WORKS :D

Cook: What kind of loser servant are you?

C2: I'm the son of people so poor that we hardly ever eat meat! That's why I've never used a roasting jack before!

LOLOLOL omg Charles is the best (okay maybe this is my favorite?? who knows)

Pope the butler, the Jeeves of his time: *forges a letter from Jane's father saying he's seriously ill and she needs to come to him IMMEDIATELY+

no wait THIS is my favorite, omg. Oh, I can't decide. But this is SO COOL.

C2 also visits Stonehenge, because why not*

HAHAHAHA okay sure C2, why not

Fritz: Some people have all the luck!

Oh Fritz, I hate to break it to you, but... it wasn't just luck (although yeah, a lot of luck too). Though I guess C2 was older and more mature -- *checks dates* *blinks* Huh, C2 was only 19 or 20 when all this happened? Well, he certainly had a very different life (and escape trajectory).

C2 granted a variety of annuities and gifts to some of the people who had aided him, including the Pendrell brothers and Jane Lane

Please tell me that Pope the butler got something!

From:

selenak

Alas I don't know whether Pope the Butler got something, since he's not listed by name in the accounts I looked up (my copy of Frasers C2 biography is in Munich, and I'm in Bamberg), but I expect so - C2 was a generous guy and seems to have tried to reward all the people who helped him.

Priest holes have their own wiki entry, complete with the one Charles was hidden in. (The one at Boscobel House, since there are photos of three examples.) (BTW, Father Huddleston gave him his place (there wasn't room for more than one person in them), which with the Puritans newly victorious really was very noble and potentially self sacrificial.

OKAY I need more detail here!! Why did he convert?? Was it his mom again?? Why would it or wouldn't have been sincere??

No, Mom had nothing to do with it, and not just because she was long since dead. Major reasons for the debate:

1) Like many a king not FW or Fritz, Charles had a cash flow problem, especially after the triple blows of having lost a war with the Dutch, the Plague and the Great Fire of London on the one hand, and being a big spender on the other hand. (Not just on mistresses. He also was a major supporter of the sciences and art. But cheap, this was not.) And remember, Parliament held the strings of the royal purse. Which had been one of the many factors in the Civil War. However, just on the other side of the channel was cousin Louis XIV. The ultra Catholic, absolute, and having no compunction to spend money (as his subjects would find out) on whatever he wanted. Also, Charles' favourite sister Minette, married to Louis' brother Philippe the Gay to their mutual misery, was kind of C2's unofficial ambassador at Versailles. (There were official English envoys, of course, but Minette has the one entrusted with the very very secret thing about to unfold.) So Minette brokered the Treaty of Dover, the official part of which was a mutual aid and assistance contract where Charles promised to side with Louis against the Dutch. (Whom he'd been warring with unsuccesfully before but then had reconciled with, not least because his nephew William of Orange (the most famous to hold that name, the future King of England) had come of age and was rapidly turning into a thorn in Louis' side (as in, no more willing to let Louis run rampant over the Netherlands than his regents had been). The unofficial, secret part of the Treaty of Dover was that in exchange of a considerable yearly pension from Louis, Charles promised to convert to Catholicism "if the state of the Kingdom permitted it" and if the expected uproar would happen would accept Louis' troops to help quell said uproar in England. As it happened, Charles converted about five minutes before he died, after years and years of cash from Louis without converting or making the slightest move to do so, thereby technically fulfilling his promise but as to whether he meant it... BTW, since his subjects couldn't be sure he'd do this, of course had this treaty been known to the public there'd been Civil War, Part II. It was an incredible risky thing to do. (And a reason why this additional clause to the Treaty of Dover was so super secret, not just on the English but also on the French side. Minette and Louis knew, but Philippe did not. (And did majorly resent his wife being sent on diplomatic missions to England anyway.)) However, it did pay off for Charles, not just in terms of having more cash, but having more independence from Parliament.

2.) The story of Charles' death bed conversion was told by brother James the Ultra Catholic fanatic. According to James, he brought Father Huddleston to Charles saying "Sire, this good man once saved your life. He now comes to save your soul", Charles expresses the wish to die the Catholic Faith, Father Huddleston hears his confession and provides Extreme Unction, Charles dies. (Father Huddleston remained with Charles' widow Catherine till his own death.) In James' account, this was an utterly sincere conversion. But then, James both as a hardcore Catholic himself and as a monarch had every reason in the world to present it as such, not as something which had anything to do with the Treaty of Dover. (Let's not forget, cousin Louis XIV was alive and well and would outlive both brothers.)

3.) This said, C2 sincerely respected and was grateful to Huddleston, and all the Catholics who'd risked life and limb to help him, and even after a life time of being the one family member who really was meh personally about religion (either variation) could have felt the wish to convert as he was dying.

4.) Though we're talking about a man who still quipped on his deathbed. In addition to the aforementioned "be good to Portsmouth, and let not poor Nelly starve", there's also, to the rest of the people who like James were surrounding his death bed: He had been, he said, an unconscionable time dying but he hoped that they would excuse it.

Young Fritz and young Charles weren't that much apart in age, true, though in fairness the circumstances of their respective escapes or non-escapes were truly very, very different. Fritz didn't have a small but loyal network of underground Catholics coming to his aide, and he never made it far enough to be aided anyway. Otoh, Fritz wasn't on the run after a lost battle in a country where he was on top of the "WANTED!" list, and he had months to prepare, whereas Charles had to improvise after losing the battle.

Edited Date: 2021-09-11 09:17 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

Oh woooow. Yeah, I... am finding myself more admiring Charles' political acumen here than moved by the sincerity of his faith :P (Not that he couldn't have been sincere, like you say! Though as you also say, one could still have some sincerity and yet... be cynical enough to do it at the time that would give one the very least trouble :) )

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Young Fritz and young Charles weren't that much apart in age, true, though in fairness the circumstances of their respective escapes or non-escapes were truly very, very different. Fritz didn't have a small but loyal network of underground Catholics coming to his aide, and he never made it far enough to be aided anyway. Otoh, Fritz wasn't on the run after a lost battle in a country where he was on top of the "WANTED!" list, and he had months to prepare, whereas Charles had to improvise after losing the battle.

Agreed. The biggest difference is that Fritz was never out of FW's direct power--even the remnants of a beaten army gives you a head start over your pursuers that Fritz never had. Who was actually *lucky* was Peter Keith, stationed in Wesel, far away from FW, when this happened.

Similar to Charles II's escape story in this respect--lost a battle, had to flee the country, had a network of Catholic supporters, hunted by the enemy, had narrow escapes, is his great-nephew, one hundred years later, in Scotland. Like C2 and unlike Fritz, great-nephew made it.

Great-nephew,

cahn, is Charles Edward Stuart, grandson of C2's younger brother James II, often called by romanticizers of the past Bonnie Prince Charlie. "Bonnie" because he was good-looking and charismatic when he was young. I'll abbreviate him BPC because the opportunity to have a non-confusing, unique name in our fandom is too good to be passed up!

So after James II lost his throne to William and Mary in the Glorious Revolution, *he* had to flee overseas (are you seeing a Stuart theme here?). He, his son, and then his grandson BPC kept trying to get the British throne back with foreign (Catholic) support, meaning some combination of France, Spain, and the Pope, depending on whose interest they could get on a given year.

After the War of the Spanish Succession forced France to recognize the Hanoverian succession and kick out the Stuarts, they went to live in Rome, the last place that would actually have them. (They were kind of a huge political liability; being nice to them would piss off powerful Britain, and not one of them inspired great confidence that they could actually pull off a successful revolution.) Foreign support usually consisted of "Well, we're at war with Britain already for other reasons, so let's stage an invasion of Britain to attempt a Stuart revolution. Not because we think there's more than a very slim chance, but because an invasion at home will force the British to pull troops off the Continent, which will help us in our wars! Stuarts, what Stuarts?

So in 1745, France is at war with Britain because of the War of the Austrian Succession. BPC has appeared in France to bug Louis XV. "Can I have money and troops and ships to land me in Scotland, can I can I can I?"

To summarize the complicated developments that ensued, the final response was, "You can have a ship to take you there, and then if it looks like you're actually going to win, we'll send you more money. Have fun storming the castle!"

Literally everyone: "BPC, this is not the stuff of which successful rebellions are made. Stay where you are, get a pension from Louis, get your head out of the clouds and stop dreaming about how you're going to make your dad King of England."

BPC: "No, it'll be great, it's my destiny, what could go wrong! Divine right of kings FTW!"

BPC: *invades Scotland with 7 friends*

Local Scots: *OMG, you promised French support! Go home, go home!"

BPC: "Sir, I am come home." (Famous quote.)

Through a small miracle, he actually manages to raise an army and start the most successful Jacobite Rebellion of them all, the Forty-Five aka the 45. Oh, "Jacobite" = "supporters of James", because "Jacobus" is the Latin for James.

But after some initial success, the Jacobites end up losing the Battle of Culloden, in April of 1746. This is the last land battle to be fought on the island of Great Britain.

Opposite BPC is the Duke of Cumberland, favorite son of G2 and Caroline of Ansbach, the one they really wanted to make their heir over Fritz of Wales.

The battle turns into a slaughter. The British adopt a take-no-prisoner attitude even after the battle: wounded and surrendering Jacobites are killed on sight. The army occupies the Highlands and imposes martial law. Various high-ranked members of the army are taken prisoner, transported to London, and publicly executed. Parliament passes various laws to oppress the culture of the Scottish Highlands: no wearing kilts, for example. William, Duke of Cumberland, earns the nickname "Butcher Billy," and is hated by Scots to this day.

So now BPC is fleeing for his life. He goes into hiding in the Highlands, and he isn't betrayed despite the occupying army, the price on his head, the fact that Jacobite resistance is effectively over at this point; BPC, despite his delusions to the contrary, will never have enough support to raise an army again.

It was an eventful escape, but it's been 20 years since I studied it and none of my Jacobite books made it through the book cullings of my several moves since then, so the only things I remember are:

1. Cluny's Cage, a cave/hole in the ground where he hid out in the mountains with Cluny of MacPherson, who was also being hunted by the Hanoverians.

2. Flora MacDonald, who went down in history as one of the most romantic figures of the rebellion. She risked her neck helping smuggle BPC in a boat over to the Isle of Skye, where BPC could be picked up by a ship that would take him to safety in France.

The most entertaining part of this episode is that BPC was disguised as Flora's lady's maid and going by the name of Betty Burke. Yes, this escape attempt has disguises via cross-dressing.

BPC made it to safety, having spent about 5 months on the run from Hanoverian supporters. He then faded into a lifetime of alcoholism and obscurity on the Continent.

Flora, who was imprisoned and interrogated by the Brits, but later released unharmed, eventually migrated to the American colonies. During the revolution, like many survivors of the Forty-Five who had seen what happens when you stand up to the British government, she was on the Tory side. Oops. So after being on the losing side of this war, she had to move back to Scotland.

3. BPC saying goodbye to Flora was immortalized in art, and is now a popular image to put on shortbread containers. If you've ever seen this, that's BPC and Flora MacDonald. And next time you're in a grocery store, you can look for this bit of 18th century history.

(No, they didn't have an affair. He did have an affair with another, very obscure and known only to students of the Jacobite rebellions, woman while in Scotland, but not Flora.)

4. Lots and lots of popular culture romanticizing the rebellion. "The Skye Boat Song" aka "Over the Sea to Skye" is one of the most well-known pieces of music to come out of his escape. (I typed "attempt" out of sheer muscle memory, lol, poor Fritz.)

(Watch me resist the urge to tell you the whole '45. :P I may at some point, but rn too many other things to do.)

From:

selenak

Admiring footnotes to this write up for

cahn:

1.) This is the period around which a lot of successful fiction featuring noble Scots and dastardly Englishmen is centred, notably Outlander. Also two flashback episodes from Highlander: The TV Series.

2.) The one and only time I did research at the Scottish National Library (about a 19th century painter whose diaries were stored there), I had next to me in the reading room a middle aged guy who looked like he was a biker - jeans, white haired pony tail, tattoos - and whom did he research? Flora MacDonald!

3.) Can't be sure, because my Boswell diaries are in Munich and I am in Bamberg, but I think he and Dr. Johnson met Flora MacDonald on that one and only Scotland & Hebrides trip Boswell talked Johnson into.

4.) C2 didn't have an affair with Jane Lane, either, as far as anyone knows. (And we do have some affectionate and respectful letters from him to her from later in life indicating the nature of their relationship.) However, I bet that as with BPC and Flora MacDonald, this didn't stop anyone bent on imagining romance in fiction, due to the very romantic circumstances.

5.) Reminder of karma waiting for Butcher Billy (who at first got the national hero treatment in England: old Händel even composed a song praising him for saving Britain) in the 7 Years War: faced not with underarmed Highlanders but with professional French soldiers, he fared terribly and even gave up Hannover itself to Voltaire's old schoolmate Richelieu-not-that-one. Caroline was dead by then, but G2 was incensed, William stopped being his fave and was never forgiven for this. Nor did he get a command again. They were on non-speaking terms when G2 died.

6.) Given the complete repression of Scottish culture post 1745, including the kilt order, it's an irony that what led to the lasting love affair between British Royals and Scotland and the general popularity of Highlanders in Britain (they sure as hell weren't in the 18th century, I quoted to you the Boswell diary entry where he witnesses a London theatere crowd booing and hissing "No Scots!" at some Highlander soldiers freshly returned from defending English rule in the American Colonies) was a) Sir Walter Scott's novels, and b) Sir Walter Scott stage managing G4's trip to Scotland and even getting him to wear a kilt. G4, the former Prince Regent, was probably the most loathed Hannover king of all, but that still was a huge booster.

From:

From:

cahn - Date: 2021-09-18 04:29 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

cahn

Thank you for this!! This is... making sense of a lot of things that have come up in other contexts but which I didn't have the context to appreciate, like the Butcher of Cumberland. And the Jacobites! And I'd wondered what relation Bonnie Prince Charlie was to all these Charleses :)

and not one of them inspired great confidence that they could actually pull off a successful revolution

...I can see why!

The most entertaining part of this episode is that BPC was disguised as Flora's lady's maid and going by the name of Betty Burke. Yes, this escape attempt has disguises via cross-dressing.

okay this is AWESOME!

If you've ever seen this, that's BPC and Flora MacDonald.

Oh! I think I have seen this! But maybe when I was a kid? (We don't usually buy shortbread, but I think my mom sometimes did.)

(Watch me resist the urge to tell you the whole '45. :P I may at some point, but rn too many other things to do.)

Lol. Well, I have invited

luzula over to this thread...

From:

luzula

It was an eventful escape, but it's been 20 years since I studied it and none of my Jacobite books made it through the book cullings of my several moves since then

If you ever want to return to the topic, I greatly recommend Fight for a Throne: the Jacobite '45 Reconsidered by Christopher Duffy. I never paid that much attention to the details of BPC:s escape itself, though I remember reading some of them in The Lyon in Mourning, but I definitely do have the urge to tell

From:

selenak - Date: 2021-09-17 07:16 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

luzula

I am greatly enjoying this whole post, thanks for writing all this up! : D

However:
England, Scotland and France, if you're wondering. At this point, the British kings still called themselves "Kings of France". They'd keep doing that until Team Hannover got the crown and finally ditched that claim and the lily from the heralds

For fic research, I got the British Army Museum to photograph an 18th century captain's commission for me; it's from 1757 and definitely says "George the Second, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain, France and Ireland..." So it seems they hadn't given up the claim.

(Also it very charmingly calls the captain "our trusty and welbeloved NN". I wish my employment contract said that.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

For fic research, I got the British Army Museum to photograph an 18th century captain's commission for me; it's from 1757 and definitely says "George the Second, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain, France and Ireland..." So it seems they hadn't given up the claim.

I had always learned that it was the first decade of the 19th century (can't remember which year) when they gave it up, when Great Britain plus Ireland formally became the United Kingdom, and Wikipedia is backing my memory:

In 1800, the Act of Union joined the Kingdom of Great Britain with the Kingdom of Ireland to a new United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. George III chose this opportunity to drop his claim to the now defunct French throne, whereupon the fleurs-de-lis, part of the coat of arms of all claimant Kings of France since the time of Edward III, was also removed from the British royal arms. Britain recognised the French Republic by the Treaty of Amiens of 1802.