Addresses for our envoys: that's very cool. Also, dash it, now I've returned all my books to the Stabi; the Manteuffel dissertation had both his Berlin addresses (i.e. the one he had as Saxon envoy and then later the one when he moved to Berlin as private citizen in 1733), so we could have checked whether the former is also Flemming's house. I do remember they were two different addresses, though.
LOL on all the different spellings for the English envoy.
Katte: has a good address he lives unter den Linden. Well, both his father and grandfather are loaded in cash. And Müller, gulp.
There's a Major Schenck and a Major Schack, no wonder Wilhelmine and Pollnitz got confused in their memoirs over who was responsible for carrying out Katte's execution.
I know that Suhm inherited Lynar's (the previous and subsequent Saxon envoy to Russia, he of the threesomes with Anna Leopoldovna and Mengden) house in St. Petersburg, the one that almost burned down twice. It would make sense if the envoys tended to gravitate toward or were assigned a specific dwelling.
LOL on all the different spellings for the English envoy.
Løvenørn has more! And Peter Ernst Carl Reinhardt, himself an envoy, is catching up in his own way. :D
ETA:
Katte: has a good address he lives unter den Linden. Well, both his father and grandfather are loaded in cash.
Speaking of Grandpa Wartensleben, in 1730, he's the governor of Berlin, and he lives "auf dem Friedrichs-Werder, in des Gouverneurs Hause." Kloosterhuis confirms that this is where Katte was born. I see Wartensleben's been governor since 1702. The Gouverneurs Haus is not to be confused with the later Gouverneurshaus, erected in 1721 and only used as a governor's house starting in 1732, so not the one listed on our 1748 map.
As for the corresponendence, I'll get around to it, but only after Easter. Ordering always takes a few days, and next week I'm off to spend the Easter Holidays with the APs. I don't want a parcel with Stabi books standing around unsupervised in the floor!
It would make sense if the envoys tended to gravitate toward or were assigned a specific dwelling.
Especially since it's there to have when the previous envoy moves out anyway, and also if you move to a new place, even if you bring some of your own servants and staff, you will inevitably also hire some locals. (For laundry, food delivery etc.) It's much more convenient to use already established connections than for you or your steward having to find the people in question in the first place.
Speaking of 1730: I briefly wondered where Doris Ritter lived to take those fatal chaperoned strolls with Fritz, but then I recalled she was in Potsdam, not Berlin. Checking wiki again, Doris Ritter's father Matthias was headmaster at the Potsdam grammar school and choirmaster at St. Nikolai, which is the same church where Gundling will be buried in April 1731.
...now I wonder whether Dad Ritter when his boss was one of the valiant five to take a stand against FW either tried to talk him out of it (what if he has you whipped, too?) or encouraged him (At least this time, show the bastard!).
Anyway, Doris living in Potsdam, not Berlin, means both the strolls and the shared music playing must have taken place there as well.
St. Nikolai, which is the same church where Gundling will be buried in April 1731
Nitpick time: He was buried in the Bornstedter church, beyond Sanssouci. The Nicolaikirche was just where the funeral service took place and it's the huge dome right next to the Town Palace.
Oh, and the Adresskalender is actually for Berlin and Potsdam both, but I don't see a Ritter in 1729 or 1730, so her father's position must not have been important enough to be included.
Right, burial and funeral service, different churches. Still, as Cantor of Nicolai, Matthias Ritter would presumably have a front row seat to his superior refusing to hold the funeral service if Gundling didn't get a real coffin. If, that is, he still had the job in 1731.
Wiki says they only moved to Potsdam in 1728 when he got the job(s), - they lived in Perleberg before that - , so perhaps that's why he didn't make the 1729 address book yet. In 1730, otoh, he lost his job at the school immediately in September when Doris was whipped. I do hope he wasn't fired at the church as well, but wiki doesn't say. So the family might have had to move again.
As for the corresponendence, I'll get around to it, but only after Easter. Ordering always takes a few days, and next week I'm off to spend the Easter Holidays with the APs. I don't want a parcel with Stabi books standing around unsupervised in the floor!
Understood and agreed! No rush, no one is *dying* to know what Manteuffel said to Wolff in their three volumes of correspondence. ;) I just wanted to let you know it's out there, because you've Pavlovianly conditioned me that if I bring your attention to a book that you have access to, I will find out what's in that book without any effort on my part. <3 Enjoy your holidays!
Mind you, the description doesn't just say "historisch-kritische Ausgabe", it also says the languages used are French, Latin and German. Which gives me the unholy idea that we're dealing with an edition that doesn't include translations for Manteuffel's written in French letters. And if he and Wolff intermittently write in Latin as well - yikes! Henri de Catt with his occasional Latin was tough enough!
I had the same thought! But at least you can read the German letters, plus there seems to be a "Regest" before each letter summarizing it, which should at least tell us which French (or Latin!) letters are of interest.
ETA: Also, I like your use of "unholy." I'm going to start referring to Fraktur as unholy. :P
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Jägerhof
Date: 2021-03-25 05:19 pm (UTC)LOL on all the different spellings for the English envoy.
Katte: has a good address he lives unter den Linden. Well, both his father and grandfather are loaded in cash. And Müller, gulp.
There's a Major Schenck and a Major Schack, no wonder Wilhelmine and Pollnitz got confused in their memoirs over who was responsible for carrying out Katte's execution.
They didn't have the Berlin address book!
Re: Jägerhof
Date: 2021-03-25 10:50 pm (UTC)Curses! Is it perhaps in the preview?
I know that Suhm inherited Lynar's (the previous and subsequent Saxon envoy to Russia, he of the threesomes with Anna Leopoldovna and Mengden) house in St. Petersburg, the one that almost burned down twice. It would make sense if the envoys tended to gravitate toward or were assigned a specific dwelling.
ETA: Speaking of Manteuffel, though, looking for the preview led me to this: Briefwechsel zwischen Christian Wolff und Ernst Christoph von Manteuffel, 1738-1748. 3 volume historical critical edition, totally in the Munich Stabi.
They didn't have the Berlin address book!
Clearly!
LOL on all the different spellings for the English envoy.
Løvenørn has more! And Peter Ernst Carl Reinhardt, himself an envoy, is catching up in his own way. :D
ETA:
Katte: has a good address he lives unter den Linden. Well, both his father and grandfather are loaded in cash.
Speaking of Grandpa Wartensleben, in 1730, he's the governor of Berlin, and he lives "auf dem Friedrichs-Werder, in des Gouverneurs Hause." Kloosterhuis confirms that this is where Katte was born. I see Wartensleben's been governor since 1702. The Gouverneurs Haus is not to be confused with the later Gouverneurshaus, erected in 1721 and only used as a governor's house starting in 1732, so not the one listed on our 1748 map.
1730 map, please! :D ;)
Nothing to do with Jägerhof at all
Date: 2021-03-26 06:26 am (UTC)As for the corresponendence, I'll get around to it, but only after Easter. Ordering always takes a few days, and next week I'm off to spend the Easter Holidays with the APs. I don't want a parcel with Stabi books standing around unsupervised in the floor!
It would make sense if the envoys tended to gravitate toward or were assigned a specific dwelling.
Especially since it's there to have when the previous envoy moves out anyway, and also if you move to a new place, even if you bring some of your own servants and staff, you will inevitably also hire some locals. (For laundry, food delivery etc.) It's much more convenient to use already established connections than for you or your steward having to find the people in question in the first place.
Speaking of 1730: I briefly wondered where Doris Ritter lived to take those fatal chaperoned strolls with Fritz, but then I recalled she was in Potsdam, not Berlin. Checking wiki again, Doris Ritter's father Matthias was headmaster at the Potsdam grammar school and choirmaster at St. Nikolai, which is the same church where Gundling will be buried in April 1731.
...now I wonder whether Dad Ritter when his boss was one of the valiant five to take a stand against FW either tried to talk him out of it (what if he has you whipped, too?) or encouraged him (At least this time, show the bastard!).
Anyway, Doris living in Potsdam, not Berlin, means both the strolls and the shared music playing must have taken place there as well.
Re: Nothing to do with Jägerhof at all
Date: 2021-03-26 10:35 am (UTC)Nitpick time: He was buried in the Bornstedter church, beyond Sanssouci. The Nicolaikirche was just where the funeral service took place and it's the huge dome right next to the Town Palace.
Oh, and the Adresskalender is actually for Berlin and Potsdam both, but I don't see a Ritter in 1729 or 1730, so her father's position must not have been important enough to be included.
Re: Nothing to do with Jägerhof at all
Date: 2021-03-26 04:45 pm (UTC)Wiki says they only moved to Potsdam in 1728 when he got the job(s), - they lived in Perleberg before that - , so perhaps that's why he didn't make the 1729 address book yet. In 1730, otoh, he lost his job at the school immediately in September when Doris was whipped. I do hope he wasn't fired at the church as well, but wiki doesn't say. So the family might have had to move again.
Re: Nothing to do with Jägerhof at all
Date: 2021-03-26 05:26 pm (UTC)Understood and agreed! No rush, no one is *dying* to know what Manteuffel said to Wolff in their three volumes of correspondence. ;) I just wanted to let you know it's out there, because you've Pavlovianly conditioned me that if I bring your attention to a book that you have access to, I will find out what's in that book without any effort on my part. <3 Enjoy your holidays!
Re: Nothing to do with Jägerhof at all
Date: 2021-03-27 06:49 am (UTC)Re: Nothing to do with Jägerhof at all
Date: 2021-03-27 01:16 pm (UTC)ETA: Also, I like your use of "unholy." I'm going to start referring to Fraktur as unholy. :P