Frederick the Great discussion post 15

[cahn]

...I have nothing clever to say here, just really pleased this is still going :)
rheinsberg

Comments

Re: A Marwitz question for the Rheinsberg salon

[mildred_of_midgard]

Good question! In fact, it's such an important topic to our gossipy sensationalist selves that we've discussed it at least three times. :D Most recently last week, but since we were on that occasion repeating a previous conversation precisely because I had forgotten about it in the several-month-long inundation of Fritzian information, missing it is quite understandable.

Short answer: no one knows. We've tried and tried to find out, but no luck.

Otherwise praiseworthy Heinrich biographer Ziebura asserts as fact that they're the same person, but selenak and I don't buy it, and we certainly don't agree it can be responsibly stated as fact. What is known of famous Marwitz's life contradicts what Lehndorff tells us about page Marwitz, assuming Lehndorff is reliable. (Actually, Lehndorff's 1907 editor also says they're the same person, but we still don't believe it. We think people just can't resist making the identification.)

Furthermore, Ziebura packs some other dicey claims into her same paragraph, namely:

- Marwitz was Heinrich's first love. Maybe! But, evidence?

- Marwitz couldn't have had gonorrhea or been cheating on Heinrich, because he had such a respectable military career later!

Me and selenak: You forgot about Seydlitz! Much more military prowess, famed general, honored by Heinrich on the same obelisk, total womanizer, died of advanced syphilis! The one (sexual morals) has nothing to do with the other (military performance and courage).

I should add that in that Marwitz fic selenak wrote you, she managed to write the entire thing without once giving him a first name (that isn't a pseudonym), precisely because we don't have a first name for him, nor do we know where he fits into the family tree. I thought that was clever. Also impressively scholarly for a fanfic. ;)

Two points on the castle-sacking:

- German wiki tells me that there's been a recent scholarly claim that this story is largely apocryphal. I haven't examined the documentary evidence and couldn't say one way or the other, just putting that out there.

- Either way, I don't think it would have been Heinrich ordering the sacking. Heinrich and Fritz were at odds as to how you treat civilians (well, and soldiers, too), with Heinrich way toning down the war crimes relative to Fritz. If I'm recalling correctly, Fritz once put someone else in charge of getting "contributions" out of the Saxon population, because Heinrich wasn't being ruthless enough.