Yuletide tags are out: Frederician version

[cahn]

Come join us in this crazy Frederick the Great fandom and learn more about all these crazy associated people, like the star-crossed and heartbreaking romance between Maria Theresia's daughter Maria Christina and her daughter-in-law Isabella, wow.

OK, so, there are FOURTEEN characters nominated:
Anna Karolina Orzelska (Frederician RPF)
Elisabeth Christine von Preußen | Elisabeth Christine Queen of Prussia (Frederician RPF)
Francesco Algarotti (Frederician RPF)
François-Marie Arouet | Voltaire (Frederician RPF)
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great (Frederician RPF)
Hans Hermann Von Katte (Frederician RPF)
Joseph II Holy Roman Emperor (Frederician RPF)
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria (Frederician RPF)
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf (Frederician RPF)
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith (Frederician RPF)
Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (Frederician RPF)
Stanisław August Poniatowski (Frederician RPF)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758) (Frederician RPF)
Yekatarina II Alekseyevna | Catherine the Great of Russia (Frederician RPF)

This means some fourth person kindly nominated Algarotti and -- I think? -- Stanislaw August Poniatowski! YAY! Thank you fourth person! Come be our friend! :D Yuletide is so great!

I am definitely requesting Maria Theresia, Wilhelmine, and Fritz (Put them in a room together. Shake. How big is the explosion?), and thinking about Elisabeth Christine, but maybe not this year.

I am also declaring this post another Frederician post, as the last one was getting out of hand. I think I'll still use that one as the overall index to these, though, to keep all the links in one place.

(seriously, every time I think the wild stories are done there is ANOTHER one)

Comments

MT marriage AU

[mildred_of_midgard]

Haha, oh, lol, Carlyle, you never fail to provide entertaining gems even while being infuriatingly unreadable.

So, you know Muller, the pastor at Küstrin? His son got interviewed fifty years later. Carlyle quotes the son:

"'My Father used to say, he found an excellent knowledge and conviction of the truths of religion in the Crown-Prince. [Insert evidence of how devout Fritz was at that point in his life.] Whoever considers this fine knowledge of religion, and reflects on the peculiar character and genius of the young Herr, which was ever struggling towards light and clearness (for at that time he had not become indifferent to religion, he often prayed with my Father on his knees),— will find that it was morally impossible this young Prince could have thought [as some foolish persons have asserted] of throwing himself into the arms of Papal Superstition [seeking help at Vienna, marrying an Austrian Archduchess, and I know not what] or allow the intrigues of Catholic Priests to'— Oh no, Herr Muller, nobody but very foolish persons could imagine such a thing of this young Herr."

So apparently, the marriage project was well enough known that half a century later, some guy who wasn't even there was still trying to convince people Fritz WOULD NEVER.

Me: *is pretty sure Fritz would*

Also: is Carlyle being sarcastic in that last sentence or not? I can't tell without reading him more extensively, and I don't want to read him more extensively. I only cherry-pick from the Fritz bio because it has a gazillion volumes' worth of data.

Re: MT marriage AU

[selenak]

I can't tell, either; as a late 19th century cranky Scot, he's both likely to have thought "as if Fritz, hero and defender of Protestants everywhere in Europe, would!" and "of course Fritz, masterful tactician and faker if needs must, would, you naive Son Of Muller!"

But yeah, I'm with you: he would have if he could have. Meanwhile, here's how I imagine things went down in Potsdam:

Grumpkow: Your Majesty, the crown prince is now very devout, praying with Pastor Muller.

FW: Good.

G: He's sworn off the English marriage project.

FW: He'd better.

G:...and wants to marry an Austrian arch duchess, convert to Catholicism and move to Vienna.

FW: WTF?!!!!!

G: Just a suggestion, maybe allow him to play the flute again? Just as an alternative to Catholicism, of course.

Meanwhile, in a dispatch to Vienna:

Seckendorff to Prince Eugene: Things are still bonkers here, crown prince just proposed to arch duchess, plz ignore!

Eugene to Seckendorff: WTF????

Re: MT marriage AU

[cahn]

Just a suggestion, maybe allow him to play the flute again? Just as an alternative to Catholicism, of course.

LOL FOREVER. FW, there are worse things than the flute! Well, things you think are worse, anyway.

Re: MT marriage AU

[selenak]

I checked up Wilhelmine's travel correspondance again, and it turns out not just did the Margrave make his imprompto trip to Bayreuth and back to Italy to deny there was any Popery going on with him and Wihelmine but Fritz wrote to her: "By the way, sis, rumor has reached me that, etc., and I know it's stupid, but could you please pass through Geneva on your way back and visit Calvin's birthplace or something like that?" Whereupon Wilhelmine replies that yes, this was really stupid, but, and now I'm actually quoting again, "for you, I will make my salamaleikums in Geneva".

Which tells you that free thinkers or not, Fritz and Wilhelmine were aware that the Hohenzollern must never appear to be anything but Protestants in public. (Also that Wilhelmine in 1754 was either via the 10001 Nights (she must have read the French translation) or through other means aware enough of (at least some of)Islam to make the "my salamaleikums" joke.

Re: MT marriage AU

[cahn]

Also this tells me that Wilhelmine is awesome :D Wow, though, that's an awesome bit of correspondence.

but how are we gonna get Fritz to convert to marry Joseph

Re: MT marriage AU

[mildred_of_midgard]

Well, see, that's my sticking point too, and a large part of why the RP has stalled on Fritz's reaction. Fritz would personally do a nominal conversion in a heartbeat if it meant moving out of Prussia and getting away from Dad and give up a kingdom that's not even his yet, but ~1761 (when I imagine this summit taking place) he's not a private figure any more, and he's too good at realpolitik to throw away his kingdom once it's his.

...Maybe he trolls MT for a while but keeps his options open with other fanboy too (per my joke at the end of that first letter to Peter)? On the grounds that:

1) Irrational fanboy can be expected to be a lot more pliable than rational fanboy.
2) Irrational fanboy is a Protestant turned really-bad-Orthodox.

(Seriously, one of the reasons Catherine was more popular than her husband was that she was willing to play along with being a sincere convert as long as it was in her interests to do so, whereas Peter made it clear he didn't take his Orthodoxy very seriously. Note that she was also much more committed to and successful at becoming fluent in Russian.)

What do you think, guys? How long can Fritz drag out the fight for his hand in marriage? What does Catherine think of all this? (What does EC think of all this?)

Re: MT marriage AU

[selenak]

Well, having written further on the crack fic, let me add that there would be this precedent: Secret or promised conversion a la Charles II (Stuart) ("I'll make it public on my death bed, or any minute now; meanwhile, Louis, keep sending over money"). In practical terms, no one would convert, but MT would have an embarrasment weapon if Fritz ever invades her territory again - Charles had to promise in writing; mind you, Fritz could cry forgery and invade anyway, which she knows he's capable of, but still, it would be something.

Anyway, she's now done her best to troll Fritz into wanting to troll her back by having designs on her son.