Yuletide tags are out: Frederician version

Come join us in this crazy Frederick the Great fandom and learn more about all these crazy associated people, like the star-crossed and heartbreaking romance between Maria Theresia's daughter Maria Christina and her daughter-in-law Isabella, wow.

OK, so, there are FOURTEEN characters nominated:
Anna Karolina Orzelska (Frederician RPF)
Elisabeth Christine von Preußen | Elisabeth Christine Queen of Prussia (Frederician RPF)
Francesco Algarotti (Frederician RPF)
François-Marie Arouet | Voltaire (Frederician RPF)
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great (Frederician RPF)
Hans Hermann Von Katte (Frederician RPF)
Joseph II Holy Roman Emperor (Frederician RPF)
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria (Frederician RPF)
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf (Frederician RPF)
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith (Frederician RPF)
Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (Frederician RPF)
Stanisław August Poniatowski (Frederician RPF)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758) (Frederician RPF)
Yekatarina II Alekseyevna | Catherine the Great of Russia (Frederician RPF)

This means some fourth person kindly nominated Algarotti and -- I think? -- Stanislaw August Poniatowski! YAY! Thank you fourth person! Come be our friend! :D Yuletide is so great!

I am definitely requesting Maria Theresia, Wilhelmine, and Fritz (Put them in a room together. Shake. How big is the explosion?), and thinking about Elisabeth Christine, but maybe not this year.

I am also declaring this post another Frederician post, as the last one was getting out of hand. I think I'll still use that one as the overall index to these, though, to keep all the links in one place.

(seriously, every time I think the wild stories are done there is ANOTHER one)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only | Expand All

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Ah, man, Joseph. :/ Rough times.

I'd known about the du Barry/MA incident, but not in that much detail, and not with the MT backstory. Fascinating stuff!

Clearly, Heinrich and Franzl need to have a drink somewhere at some point.

AT THE SUMMIT! MT, Joseph, and Fritz are locked in a room together for a secret summit, while Franzl and Heinrich are sitting outside in the antechamber with a bottle of tokay, commiserating.

"You know, if it were up to me..."

"If it were up to me..."

*indistinct shouting on the other side of the wall*

"Here, have another drink."

"No, no. I know it's all my brother's fault. You're the wronged party."

"Oh, no question, but you're the one who has to live with him."

"...Better make it a double."

ETA: Meant to add:

FS: Just the pal to have among the German princes!
FS: Or not? For now, at least.

It's okay, Franzl. A lot of people were fooled. Even Fritz was fooled!

Voltaire in 1741: "Son, I am disappoint."

Edited Date: 2019-10-23 12:18 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

Alas if Joseph is there than Franzl is not, since Joseph only became Emperor after his father's death.

(Joseph: Um. Mom. I'm 23, just like you were when Granddad died. Also, unlike Dad, I am a Habsburg by blood. I'm just saying. Nobody would blame you for retiring!
MT: What is this thing "retiring" you speak of? Now what kind of mother would I be to let you carry this heavy burden I know so well alone?)

Seriously though, I'm somewhat frustrated that none of the books I've consulted so far are giving me a direct Franzl quote on that Grand Tour meeting with Fritz, and just are paraphrasing and summing up as "was charmed" and "liked". Because having a first impression without the benefit of hindsight would be awesome. (The first direct quote comes in the Prussian Ambassador's report on how FS received the letter in combination with the Silesia news.

(And then we get Fritz quotes along the lines of "Here I am, GENEROUSLY offering my protection to you and your girl for the tiny tiny fee of Silesia and I GET REJECTED! It's a cruel world, sucker, see you in Silesia if you dare.")

I suppose if Fritz thought anything during that encounter, it was "why does everybody get to go on a Grand Tour except me?" and at best "not bad looking, likes music, wouldn't survive Dad's treatment for a week".

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Alas if Joseph is there than Franzl is not, since Joseph only became Emperor after his father's death.

Does Joseph have to be Emperor, though? Can he just be a starry-eyed fanboy who wants to reconcile Mom and his hero by acting as intermediary?

MT: Fine, but I'm not letting your dad in the room or Fritz will keep pointedly ignoring me to talk to him, and also your dad might start trying to get along with him.
Joseph: ...I thought the point of this was that you and Fritz learn to see eye to eye?
MT: Oh, you sweet summer child.

Meanwhile, in the antechamber:
Franz: What's going on in there?
Heinrich: You don't want to know. I got kicked out in the first five minutes.

(I'm not telling you how to write your much more realistic and well-written secret summit! I'm just having fun outlining crackfic à la FW has aneurysm from Fritz's letters, since you keep giving me ideas and I'm having fun putting them together. :D)

From:

cahn

This is all GREAT and I am considering adding crackfic to my Yuletide requests :P

From:

selenak

:) Oh, I love crack fic, too, and in that spirit:

Franz (somewhat later, after he and Heinrich are half a bottle down at least): So, your brother. I'm just speculating, but could it be he'd be in a general better mood and perhaps less inclined to conquering our territory if he got laid on a regular basis?

Heinrich: I resent that theory, on the basis of me getting laid on a regular basis and still being a better - a good warrior. Also, I don't want to think about his sex life, thanks a lot. What is it with your family handing out sexual pointers whenever you visit foreign royalty?

Franz: I didn't say anything about you compensating, just him, relax. And, well, it's just a theory. If you live in a Vienna for long, there's something in the air that makes you speculate about other people's sex lives, what can I say.

Heinrich: Well. In fact. I may have sometimes wondered. But I'm not sacrificing any hot pages to test that theory!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Too good!

Heinrich *under his breath*: Is your son offering? Because when I was in the room, that's sure what it looked like.

From:

selenak

ROTFLOL.

At this point, Philippe d'Orleans' ghost makes a cameo appearance:

Monsieur: Grandson Franz, let me point out that I as well as my older brother never suffered from a shortage of les plaisirs d'amour, and was I not a successful campaigner, so much so that Louis got jealous? This being said, this handsome gentleman here has a point. *eyes Heinrich appreciatively* Young Joseph could do worse than lose his virginity in the service of diplomacy. After all, is this not his sisters' lot?

Franz: Just how much of this wine have we drunk? Never mind. His mother would kill me, Monsieur mon grandpère.

Heinrich: So your marital peace is more important than peace in Europe?

Franz: I could say the same thing about your hot page.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Heinrich: Look. If *I* don't get laid regularly, I'm going to strangle my brother, and then there will be civil war. You all have no idea what miracles of self-control go into my relationship with him. I NEED THAT PAGE!

Franz: Hmm, but does a civil war in Prussia benefit Austria?

Heinrich: Are you asking if my brother has a problem fighting on multiple fronts?

Franz: ...Never mind.

*a few drinks later*

Franz: So about getting Fritz laid...

From:

cahn

...I am now trying to figure out if I can somehow shove Franz-Heinrich crackfic into my Yuletide requests :P

(I have my letter up! here

From:

mildred_of_midgard

I saw! I went looking last night to see if you'd put crackfic in, and I did not see any crackfic! So we started writing it here. :P

In all seriousness, it's going to be an awesome Yuletide. Also Zenna Henderson, yay. <3

From:

cahn

ahahahaha this whole discussion, uh, may have made me add a prompt about that :P

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Too good!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Also, next year we clearly need to rope another nominator in so we can get more characters! (And hopefully more offerers!) Algarotti and Poniatowski were nice surprises, but Franz and Heinrich! The list keeps growing. :DD

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Incidentally, all this talk of diplomacy via sex reminds me of:

"[The French] were appalled to learn in mid-December [1745] that their Prussian ally was about to desert them once again. The French ambassador in Berlin, Valori, mounted a last-ditch attempt to frustrate the negotiations underway at Dresden by sending off his secretary, Claude Etienne Darget.

"Why would a mere secretary be entrusted with such an important mission? The probable explanation is that Darget had already caught Frederick's roving eye, making such an impression, indeed, that his transfer to Prussian service had been requested. As we shall see, Darget was to feature as the antihero of Frederick's homoerotic poem Palladium. Alas, Frederick knew how to keep sex and politics separate. In the detailed report of their encounter sent back to Valori, Darget had to register total failure, in his diplomatic mission at least."

Footnote: "Darget moved to become Frederick's librarian the following month, January 1746."

Alas, Heinrich might be right. Don't let that stop you, though, Habsburgs!

From:

cahn

omg, that is BEAUTIFUL. Way to go not "being a man-whore," Fritz, I guess :P

(Still cracks me up thinking about how Fritz would react if MT said the very same things about him)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Like I said, he was quite proud of not being a man-whore like *some* monarchs he could mention! :D :P Now, how he would react if someone else said this out loud using that language...is an exercise best left to the reader.

MT, you missed your chance!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

this handsome gentleman here has a point. *eyes Heinrich appreciatively*

Also, this. HILARIOUS.

From:

selenak

Philippe d‘Orleans would never let a little thing like death come between him and eyeing the gents.

Later that night, once an exhausted from verbal combat MT is alone with FS in their bedroom:

F: ...actually, Mitz, the more I think about this, the less crazy it sounds. I mean, Joseph wouldn‘t exactly be unwilling, would he, given how starry eyed he is about him, and trust me on this, a man with a wonderful Habsburg in their bed is not a man who wants to go world conquering!

MT: Your dead grandfather clearly is a terrible influence on you. I might have to call an exorcist.

F: But we do expect the girls to marry for the Empire, don‘t we? Far worse guys than, well, him.

MT: Emphasis on „marry“, Franzl. Never would I ever let a child of mine live in sin and lose their immortal soul, even for the Empire. *pauses* He‘s not likely to make an honest man out of Joseph, is he?

F: ...Are you thinking what I‘m thinking, Mitz?

MT: Well, I had intended for Joseph to marry the Parma girl, it‘s true, but something tells me she‘ll get over the disappointment. If the King converts and swears to love and honor my oldest son in front of God and men, I would not gainsay God‘s plan for peace in Europe.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

me: *screams*

Our crackfic has a Fritz/Joseph same-sex marriage proposal!

"Tu felix Austria nube" indeed!

He's not likely to make an honest man out of Joseph, is he?

I'm dying here, really.

From:

selenak

Well, is he???? MT has gone as far as she possibly can with this idea, Fritz. And no, she won't accept any younger Hohenzollern siblings for her boy. No one less than the King would do! Joseph is the future Emperor, after all.

(And already King of Germany; Franz and he did go through the relevant ceremony in Frankfurt which would ensure that Joseph after his father's death would automatically become Emperor instead of having to go through vote gathering all over again. So he's already outranking Fritz, technically speaking.)

(In medieval times, it went thusly in the Holy Roman Empire: the princes electors voted you King of Germany, you got crowned as same, and then the Pope made you Emperor, unless you were one of those kings he was busy arguing with. Emperors who wanted to ensure there was not too much bother about the succession had the princes electors vote their oldest sons as Kings of Germany while they, the Emperors, were still alive and well. In the sunset days of the HRE, people usually didn't bother anymore, but after all the trouble with her own succession, MT wasn't taking any chances. She had Joseph made King in his father's lifetime.)

Edited Date: 2019-10-30 03:52 pm (UTC)

From:

cahn

...But WAIT

Would MT actually marry the future emperor to Fritz and risk Fritz being the power behind the throne of the Emperor? Seems like she might balk at that. Also how does religion work? I guess since bio kids are off the table, it's not quite so important that either of them convert?

And now how does Fritz react when MT comes back to him after the summit and is all "So, you know, we didn't get anything done yesterday, but here's an alternate proposal, hear me out..." Does this alliance work for him?

(lol how much do I love that we're having a discussion about Fritz and Joseph getting married, and realizing it might actually work out better than Fritz and MT getting married)

From:

selenak

I'll leave Fritz' reaction (and Heinrich's!) to Mildred.

Fritz being the power behind the throne of the Emperor is a serious obstacle, but MT knows her son. He's stubborn, he's argumentative, he'll insist on imposing his own ideas on his olders and betters, she just knows this will happen. Also, he might be star struck by Fritz know and thus prone to do what Fritz wants for a while, but you know, the last person in a mutual admiration society with Fritz was Voltaire, and close contact cured that one as the whole of Europe knows. She intends to live and rule for more years to come, so her gamble is: physical proximity to Fritz will reduce Joseph's crush to manageable size.

As for the succession, well, she has already some grandkids of both genders. At least one can be married to one of Fritz' nieces or nephews. But it must be a Catholic.

Edited Date: 2019-10-30 05:49 pm (UTC)

From:

cahn

Oh, I missed that you'd (MT had) already mentioned he would have to convert, lol.

Not that Fritz would have any problem with that, so we're good :D

From:

selenak

Okay, I feel we have to to have illustrations here:

Arch Duke Joseph as a kid some years before this potential meeting:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Martin_van_Meytens_003.jpg/800px-Martin_van_Meytens_003.jpg

Joseph crowned as Holy Roman Emperor (he hated those robes and thought they looked ridiculous, but that was what he looked like, well, how portraitists rendered him, in his early 20s, so not so different from how he'd looked at 18, just before marrying Isabella):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Ritratto_di_Giuseppe_II_d%27Asburgo.jpg

And that's the most famous portrait and the one used to style Jeffrey Jones as Joseph in "Amadeus" after:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/HGM_Hickel_Portr%C3%A4t_Kaiser_Joseph_II.jpg

Oh, and remember that splendidly baroque tomb where MT and FS are buried together, looking at each other? Joseph is buried in front of his parents, in a simple copper casket (according to his own wishes):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Wien_-_Kapuzinergruft%2C_Maria-Theresia-Gruft_%282%29.JPG/800px-Wien_-_Kapuzinergruft%2C_Maria-Theresia-Gruft_%282%29.JPG

For you,

cahn, as an addendum - the original bill for Mozart's Cosi Fan Tutte, which Joseph had comissioned and which premiered in the Hofburg, or, as Joseph had renamed it (Leopold changed it back), the "Deutsches National Theater":

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Cosi_fan_tutte_-_first_performance.jpg

Illustrations

From:

cahn - Date: 2019-11-01 04:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Oh, boy, the RP pressure is on! :D Well, I have some ideas, but I need to let them marinate first. I guess I'm the one who got us into this :P, but it escalated quickly from snide remark, sotto voce, to marriage proposal between two major European powers!

Voltaire is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I imagined how a Fritz/Joseph relationship would play out. Joseph was less all-out crazy than Voltaire, but he had a definite mind of his own, and I don't see that going very well. Also, Fritz doesn't have the strong feelings for Joseph that he has for Voltaire, so he might be even less inclined to look for (what he considers) the good when they start to clash.

...This is gonna be fun.