The Jewish War: Second half of Book 4

[cahn]

Last week: Mass suicide (canonical), Constantinople (not present in canon), pro-surrender factions, the translation of "bandits/terrorists/troublemakers" (apparently "lestes" in Greek). Anyone familiar with the Talmud want to weigh in about the question of marrying a raped-by-a-Roman woman in Jewish society?

This week: Jerusalem continues to be torn apart by various factions. Simon son of Gioras makes his appearance. The Year of the Four Emperors happens, with Vespasian finally making his bid for emperor.

Next week: Half of book 5? To where? From selenak: until the tale of Kastor duping Titus has concluded: “…for they believed nothing but that their opponents had thrown themselves into the fire."

Comments

[selenak]

Hervey certainly wasn't anyone's tragic victim (safe for the general endangerment of living as a bisexual man in the 18th century with a preference for the gay side - though he did have notoriously a mistress when he really did not have to, since he was a) married, b) in a long term affair with Stephen Fox and c) having his circa two to three years relationship with Fritz of Wales which ended with a bad breakup involving said mistress). But remember, he may be a privileged noble, but around that time we also have the mass executions of gay men in the Netherlands. So for Pope to basically say "You, Hervey, aren't just a shallow bastard without any depth but also neither man nor a woman because you're doing it with both, and what's more, I'm comparing you with a real life eunuch to cast some extra shade on your potency" isn't a joking matter. Pope also alluded to Hervey's then much mocked preference for joghurt and milk in the verse (he had an uneasy stomach), and to his androgynous looks with the Sporus comparison.


BTW, if Hervey resembled anyone in Nero's circle, personality-wise, I'd pick Petronius Arbiter, the writer and Dandy who wrote one of the earliest novels in literature featuring the famous satirical banquet of Trimalchio (a superrich and super tasteless freedman who may or may not also be a satire on Nero himself) and who in the end invevitably had to kill himself when Nero got extra paranoid and insulted)

[cenozoicsynapsid]

Just to clarify the syntax here, Petronius had to kill himself. Trimalchio, while uncomfortably obsessed with having a lavish funeral, does not die in the book. Petronius supposedly committed a slow suicide by bleeding himself to death, banqueting and conversing with his friends the entire time. Not quite the grisliest of the historical stories we've covered, but it's up there.

[selenak]

Dying is an art. I do it exceptionally well...

(Inevitable Sylvia Plath quote is inevitable on this topic.)

While we're talking about Nero-caused suicides, I dimly recall Seneca's took eons as well, with him supposedly covering all the bases by first opening his arteries, then drinking Socrates-style poison, and finally going for death by Sauna.

I note Otho, deciding to committ suicide rather than engage in more pointless battles he's going to lose costing soldlier's lives, does this much faster and more efficiently.

[cahn]

(Inevitable Sylvia Plath quote is inevitable on this topic.)

That is indeed the perfect quote for this!

Wow, that does seem rather overkill, so to speak, by Seneca. Heh on Otho being more efficient...

[cahn]

Ha, thank you! I would have thought it was Trimalchio. Wow, that's a suicide with a sort of panache.