18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 37

[cahn]

More diaries of our favorite 18th-century Prussian diary-keeper have been unearthed and have been synopsized!

January 18th: Blessed be thou to me! Under your light, my Prince Heinrich was born!

Comments

Heinrich

[mildred_of_midgard]

Another tidbit from Anisimov. He quotes from a letter from Catherine the Great, preparing for the arrival of Heinrich. She wrote to Field Marshal Saltykov*:

I should tell you one more thing: at first sight Prince Heinrich appears to be an extremely cold person, but you should disregard this coldness, since it will thaw.

I found this extremely interesting, in light of selenak telling us about all those authors (e.g. Koser, Klepper) inexplicably writing Heinrich as a cold fish, unemotional human clockwork.

BUT. There's still really no excuse, because an author is not someone meeting him for the first time and having only five minutes of data to go on, but someone with access to a lifetime of information like, say, anti-Fritz diatribes, country palaces for Kaphengst, constant fighting and making up again with Mara, a giant obelisk...Like Catherine says, the impression of coldness wears off.

Still, it makes me wonder if there are other primary sources out there describing Heinrich as extremely cold.

*Not the Saltykov who was her lover and the putative father of Paul, but the cousin who had handed Fritz his worst defeat at Kunersdorf.

Re: Heinrich

[selenak]

Still, it makes me wonder if there are other primary sources out there describing Heinrich as extremely cold.

Well, there's Fritz in the year after Marwitz, and Lehndorff whenever he's convinced it's over between them.... More seriously, I don't recall it from early envoy reports (say late 1740s/early 1750s), but then these are more likely to mention him in conjunction with AW, as in, "AW nice but not brilliant like Fritz, will listen to/get dominated by younger brother Heinrich", and don't talk about his temper (hot or cold). Post 7 Years War mentions depend on the author. Certainly and for good reasons are memoirist like Sophie von Voltz, who was friends with Mina, thought he was godawful and cold and she couldn't abide him. Otoh you have the Lafayette quote which you've found which could hardly be more complimentary. And from what I recall of the descriptions from his first visit to France, there's one by a salonnière which emphasizes that the first impression is off putting ugliness (i.e. the physical) but then once you talk to him you're struck by his conversation and intelligence and charmed etc. Gertrud Schmeling Mara certainly doesn't describe him as cold, but then, as Mrs. Mara, she wouldn't.

Mind you, I can well believe Heinrich was the type to come across as cold at first to strangers, since especially in the later half of his life, strangers are bound to start the conversation by telling him how wonderful Big Brother is. And let's not forget, even Lehndorff, arguably the person who felt most passionate about Heinrich on the planet, did not fall in love with him when they first met but about two years later. While young Lehndorff befriended the Divine Trio as a whole, I did have the impression the one he immediately took to was the approachable AW (and not just because AW was at this point the future monarch and thus befriending him seemed a smart thing to do for a young courtier). So maybe young Heinrich, too, was distant when talked to at first.

Re: Heinrich

[cahn]

Hmm, interesting! I suppose he and Fritz might have been similar in this respect as well? -- that is, if they decided they wanted to be charming when first meeting someone (or later), they could be very charming -- but if they didn't decide that, they might come across as... rather not charming. As opposed to AW, who seems to have been charming to everyone on first glance.

Re: Heinrich

[selenak]

I think it also has to do something with AW from early childhood onwards being treated as the mediator in the family, the one you adress when you want something from FW, and the child who manages to (mostly) keep a very volatile personality happy. All of the children would have been trained in behaving graciously in public at receptions and the like, that's par the course for royals, even if Dad violates these norms all the time, but AW had extra training in being a people pleaser, so to speak.

BTW, unless we find something else, and to answer Mildred's original question, my money is on Sophie von Voltz', nee Pannwitz' journals/memoirs as a primary cause for the Heinrich-the-cold-automaton image in Koser and Klepper, because before Lehndorff's diaries were pubished in the 20th century, hers were the go to source if you wanted a courtier's pov on three Prussian regimes.

Then again: Fontane wrote in the 19th century, and his Rheinsberg section from "Wanderungen in der Mark Brandenburg" doesn't come up with Heinrich-the-cold-fish, on the contrary, it can be summed up with: Heinrich was great, with the major misfortune of his life being that he had Fritz' gifts but was fourteen years younger, he's just been lacking historical fiction to make him properly popular until now", and he imagines a potential historical novel showing the arrival of Heinrich's favourite nephew Louis on a visit and Heinrich beaming at him, plus, of course, he gives us the whole saga of Heinrich's last boyfriend the Comte, and while he doesn't use the word "boyfriend", the "last beam of the setting sun warming Heinrich" phrasing is as explicit as you can geet as a 19th century Prussian writer under censorship. Now, maybe this is because young Fontane had the chance to interview the Comtesse in her old age as an excentric Rokoko cat lady making it into the stuffy 19th century, i.e he could talk to someone who actually had known Heinrich personally. But it proves both images must have existed, i.e. cold fish and otherwise.

Re: Heinrich

[cahn]

That makes sense! (And wow, yes to that extra training in keeping a volatile personality happy.) But also I could see there being some a priori element to their character as well. (Says the person who has one child who was able to act much more intrinsically charmingly than the other as even a very small child...)

That's a great point about Fontane <3

and he imagines a potential historical novel showing the arrival of Heinrich's favourite nephew Louis on a visit and Heinrich beaming at him

I love this idea!

the "last beam of the setting sun warming Heinrich" phrasing is as explicit as you can geet as a 19th century Prussian writer under censorship.

Aww, I remembered this phrasing, but not where it had come from. That's so sweet, it's making me smile :D

Re: Heinrich

[mildred_of_midgard]

The Marwitz letters are exactly what I was thinking, except I was thinking, "But not that, since that's obviously biased,"...but of course in the 19th century they'd completely take it at face value!

Remind me, could Koser have seen that letter? (I know Preuss didn't publish it and archival access was limited, but I forget what Koser did and didn't have access to.) Because I could totally imagine him going, "Well, Der Einzige said Heinrich was cold, and he would know!" without thinking that MAYBE Der Einzige was in need of some therapy.

But I had forgotten about Sophie von Voß saying Heinrich was cold. Understandable!

Mind you, I can well believe Heinrich was the type to come across as cold at first to strangers, since especially in the later half of his life, strangers are bound to start the conversation by telling him how wonderful Big Brother is.

Ahahaha, zomg, you're right.

But one thing I was thinking: 1770 is the first time Catherine's seen Heinrich since the 1740s, right? So she's either going on a very old memory, or, more likely, is going on things she's heard from other people (her own envoys? Prussian envoys in Russia?) that corroborate her memory.

So maybe young Heinrich, too, was distant when talked to at first.

Yes, could be! And good point about Lehndorff.

Re: Heinrich

[selenak]

Whether or not Koser has read the Marwitz letters, Fritz accusing Heinrich of coldness towards himself actually isn't in them, he does that later in those letters after Heinrich has asked to go on the Grand Tour, err, travel to inspect foreign fortresses for the army, and Fritz says no and then says Heinrich hasn't talked to him in six months despite living in the same palace, and NOW he wants stuff, and also, "if this is love it must be metaphysical" and that Heinrich should just own they both "share the same coldness". And those letters are in Trier, so Koser definitely knew them.

(Whereas in the Marwitz letters, Fritz makes fun of Heinrich having too much emotion - towards Marwitz, that is.)

1770 is the first time Catherine's seen Heinrich since the 1740s, right? So she's either going on a very old memory, or, more likely, is going on things she's heard from other people (her own envoys? Prussian envoys in Russia?) that corroborate her memory.

Probably both (i.e. more recent envoy reports and her own 1740s memories), though it's worth pointing out more recently her Hamburg friend and pen pal met Heinrich in the 1760s when Heinrich was making his Netherlands trip, and on that occasion they both talked so warmly of Sophie that the pen pal suggests to Catherine she can't help but wonder what would have happened if Heinrich had married her. Otoh Heinrich being nice to Catherine's pen pal and them both embarking on a Sophie nostalgia hour are special circumstances that would not apply to Saltykow meeting him.

Re: Heinrich

[mildred_of_midgard]

Fritz says no and then says Heinrich hasn't talked to him in six months despite living in the same palace, and NOW he wants stuff, and also, "if this is love it must be metaphysical" and that Heinrich should just own they both "share the same coldness".

Ah, okay, you're right. Then yes, I suspect Koser was buying the argument! I mean, I still remember the 19th century historian arguing, "Well, Fritz liked Winterfeldt, so obviously he was the most competent general of their age after Fritz, and anyone who didn't like Winterfeldt (AW, Heinrich) was just jealous."

Re: Heinrich

[selenak]

Going back to my first write up of the Fritz-Heinrich-correspondance, I thought the actual quotes are worth repeating, because they are so... Fritz:

We have nothing to reproach each other with, we have the same coldness towards each other; and since you want it so, I'm happy. It is only my intercession for your love affairs which sometimes softens you towards me, when you need it. Besides, the little friendship that you show me on all occasions does not excite me to make new efforts of tenderness in favor of a brother who has so little return for me. This is all I have to say to you this time, assuring you that I am, my dear brother, etc.

And because this is the year for thick, thick sarcasm, the next letter offers more of same:

If you love me, your friendship must be metaphysical, for I have never seen people like that loved, without looking at them, without speaking to them, without giving them the slightest sign of affection. Happy are the people you love, I want to believe it. If you put me in that number, I can assure you that I live in a deep ignorance of the feelings you have for me. I only know your distance, your lukewarmness, and the most perfect indifference that ever was.

Culminating in the next salvo:

Surely I did not expect to receive a letter from you; but for six whole months that you find it appropriate to sulk with me, that you live in the same house without seeing me and talking to me that unless propriety absolutely prevents you from dispensing with it, nothing should surprise me more. I was even less prepared for the project you are forming.

Oh, and going back to that old entry also reminded me of this lolsob worthy gem right at the start, demonstrating already Fritz in full roleplay mode:

Always continue to apply yourself to reason correctly and to do your duty well. and

It is with sorrow that I have just learned that you are starting to go idle, preferring entertainment to studies. If you want to please me, you will apply yourself more diligently to the business of reading, which will be infinitely more useful to you than anything else.

Note I'm not saying "in FW roleplay mode". At this point, I think he's also channelling Wilhelmine and the way she got him to read books. And of course he does succeed - certainly the education and knowledge Lafayette admired would not have happened otherwise - but he also sets a theme.

Of course, now I imagine Koser reading this and being filled with compassion for the poor Einziger, having to deal with a heartless brat...

Re: Heinrich

[mildred_of_midgard]

Coldness, distance, lukewarmness, indifference...yeah, I could see Koser drawing conclusions after reading that and doing the write-up of Heinrich's personality that he did. I mean, it's not like Fritz would *deserve* this kind of behavior!

Re: Heinrich

[cahn]

Ahahaha, when I read your above comment I was all "ooh, remind me about that metaphysical love quote, because that sounds awesomely Fritz" and you have anticipated me! If you love me, your friendship must be metaphysical -- FRITZ.

But yeah, I can imagine Koser being horrified at Heinrich there!

Re: Heinrich

[selenak]

Meanwhile, Ferdinand always showed Fritz friendship. :) (That also will never be not hilarious.) Somehow, however, this estimation from the Einzigen König or rather from his early 1750s last will didn't make it into Koser's description of the siblings.

Re: Heinrich

[mildred_of_midgard]

I can't imagine why not. :P

Re: Heinrich

[selenak]

re: Koser, I seem to recall the remark about Heinrich's coldness is in a context where he says that Wilhelmine and Heinrich were the people closest to Fritz during the 7 Years War (until her death, obviously) and that Heinrich was dutiful, if made of "coarser" material than the other two and in his cold automaton way not able to have passionate sibling feelings. This irresistably reminds me of Fritz working himself into a frenzy of anxiety before Wilhelmine's death and pleading to Heinrich to give him good news about her because no one is as close as siblings who grew up with each other and he needs to hear she's fine... which is all very touching until you recall Heinrich gets that letter a few months after AW's death and the "take it like a stoic" consolation letter from Fritz on the subject.

Aaanyway. Frederician fandom really is like any other fandom, where only the emotions of your character(s) of choice are real.

Re: Heinrich

[mildred_of_midgard]

Let's not forgot when Voltaire was devastated over Émilie's death, and Fritz wrote that he was being so over-the-top that he must be exaggerating. Fast forward almost ten years, and it's all, "All Europe must grieve Wilhelmine with me!"

Re: Heinrich

[cahn]

(That also will never be not hilarious.)

YES. I have to figure out how to work this into my conversation more :)