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Date: 2022-07-17 05:51 am (UTC)these recent Ferdinand-Lehndorff interactions have totally got me wondering if they were friends with benefits too, mind you :P
Alas Ferdinand comes across as utterly straight. Before his marriage, he tries to imitate brother AW with the ladies (and then also crushes on Mina), then he falls in love and married, and it may be due to his shattered health/hypochondriac nature post 7 Years War, but no gossip ever has him cheat on her. (Some gossip claims the reverse, but interestingly enough not Lehndorff, despite not liking Mrs. Ferdinand. Also, there's no gossip as there was with Heinrich and Fritz to connect him with male favourites. And lastly, Lehndorff never swoons about him the way he does about Hotham and Heinrich.
FW 2 and the spiritualist sects: this really was a big thing, in the end to the degree that his very practical mistress, Wilhelmine Encke, decided to claim their dead son (they had a kid together who died as a child, which btw Lehndorff even mentions in this latest bunch of diaries, though without mentioning the mother, he's a snob in that he only mentions FW2's noble-born mistresses) was contacting her from beyond and faked spiritualist sessions where the kid gave her orders to countermand the Rosencreuzer bunch (who wanted to get rid of her and any other influence on FW2 that wasn't them). It worked, but it also worked against her because after FW2's death, it was one of the things FW3 used to claim she'd been in league with the Rosencreuzer (which she had not). Reminder, FW3 hated her and blamed her for his parents' marriage not working out, stripped her of her possessions and sent her to Glogau in Silesia in exile. Wilhelmine did find a young adorer marrying her (a pal of E.T.A. Hoffmann's, btw) there, but once Napoleon had kicked Prussian backsides, she petitioned L'Empereur for the return of her property and the clearing of her name, and what do you know but the French obliged.
Mrs Calderwood's take on Fritz' claim to fight MT to save all Protestants (save the Swedes, one presumes, who are fighting on MT's side): that he has cried out religion, as folks do fire when they want assistance; and that this has not been a sudden impulse of his, but that he has laid his scheme some time before, to make religion a handle to exequte what he intends.
Hats off to Mrs. Calderwood, she's very sharp and insightful indeed.
Huh. So what would the average Scotsperson and Englishperson have said? Would they have actually said the Queen of Hungary?
Well, Andrew Mitchell, Scot in English service, definitely calls her "the Queen of Hungary" in his 7 Years War era papers, except when it's time for the peace negotiations when she's back to being the Empress-Queen. (Which I presume she was before the Diplomatic Revolution when England was still allied with Austria.) Alas I can't recall a mention of her in Boswell's diaries, for Boswell who didn't work for the crown would be a better representative of how "civilian" Scots referred to her. But generally use of "the Queen of Hungary" signals you're Team Fritz, or allied to same.
(I'M also reminded of the Duc de Croy calling her "the Queen of Hungary" in his diaries right until the Diplomatic Revolution, after which point she's the Empress.)
Sidenote: during the long anarchy/Civil War when Maude the mother of later Henry II and her cousin Stephen fought for the English throne in the 12th century, you could also tell her admirers from her foes in the chronicles going by the title they used for Maude. If it was "the Empress" (which she had been in her first marriage, to HRE Henry V.), they were on her side, if it was "the Countess of Anjou" (after her second marriage to Geoffrey Plantaganet), they were Team Stephen.
Zweig at least made the case that there were a billion rumors about MA going around.
There were, but Lehndorff might have had another perspective through Heinrich's very recent visit to France. Where according to Lehndorff MA treated him first somewhat cooly (unsurprisingly, since she suspected him of being secretly there on a mission to wreck the French/Austrian alliance) but ultimately came around to him. My point is, while Heinrich had no reason to feel particularly fond of her, he did see her and her court up close and thus presumably had an opinion on whether she was simply spending too much money or whether she was another case of MESSALINA (tm). Oh, and of course, very recently before that, Lehndorff had met Lafayette, though since he quizzed him about American I doubt they talked about the French court as well.
Lastly, here's a question for salon: what do we think Fritz' motives for denying Lehndorff's spring of 1756 request to emigrate with Charles Hotham Jr. were:
a) If I didn't get to London with my lover, NO ONE gets to go to London with their lover.
b) I don't want Fredersdorf to have to go hunting for another chamberlain for my wife, especially now that he's sick and I have a war upcoming
c) He's known Hotham for how many months? A guy who first shows bad judgment by swooning over my brother Heinrich and then wants to spend the rest of his life for a man he hardly knows clearly can't be trusted to make his own decisions, so I'm making them for him.
(Let's not forget that Lehndorff isn't married yet at this point.)
Lehndorff replies
Date: 2022-07-17 06:04 am (UTC)I think Heinrich really wrote it just for emotional release, and either later destroyed it himself, or it was confiscated by Hohenzollern censorship after his death. Totally fits with my Unwritten Letters present!
It does! :D
But Mildred, naturally he's in heaven, sees the error of his Voltaire loving ways and hangs out with the greats of German literature instead. We know because various pamphlets tell us so!
Selena, this was hilarious and I kept laughing every time I reread this comment, even BEFORE Cahn came along and took it from hilarious to downright hysterical.
Caaaaahn! I may be a nonreligious American now, but I was raised mainstream American Christian, and I know this song well from my childhood. I'M DYING. :'DDDDD
Wow, Amalie. I didn't realize she had an eye removed!
I think a distorted version of this shows up in Thiébault; didn't he claim she plucked her eyes out for love of Trenck? Or was that one of the later writers?
I don't remember this at all! I'm also not seeing it when searching through salon, though salon is BIG so I may be missing it.
Because I've still got a very thin grasp of chronology -- one day I'll get it straight! -- I always assume now that it's probably someone else with the same name because EVERYONE HAS THE SAME NAME, ahem :P
But they also have three or four different names each, so I spend a lot of time thinking people are different people when they are the same, and equal time thinking people are the same (*cough* Friedrich von Marschall) when they are different!
It's a pity I'm unlikely to become famous, because future salongoers would not have this problem: I have a highly unusual first name, even more unusual last name, and unique combination!
(Still agree with Selena that Melchior Guy-Dickens is just asking for fanfic. ;))
Ah, I didn't realize that was what that meant, thank you!
Oh good, glad it helped! The idea of French gardens was to highlight how, just as Louis XIV dominated France and France dominated Europe, he also dominated nature. (This is why the fountain failures were especially galling, and why Louis XIV was so offended after visiting his minister Fouquet and finding he had a better garden than Louis did!)
I saw quite a few English gardens before I saw any French gardens, and I was shocked the first time I came across a French garden! I'm with Amalie, English gardens are nicer :) (I realize you're saying it was also the style, but also!)
I agree! Haha, though Googling tells me that what I thought was my first disappointing in-person French garden (Hofgarten in Munich) was actually based on the Italian Renaissance garden style, which influenced the French formal garden style but was not the same. Clearly I don't know my garden styles very well!
The Munich English Garden is super great, though, and I was a fan. <3
Re: Lehndorff replies
Date: 2022-07-17 10:35 am (UTC)Selena, this was hilarious and I kept laughing every time I reread this comment, even BEFORE Cahn came along and took it from hilarious to downright hysterical.
I'm chortling on my side of the Atlantic, too, at the reading of the filk. Also because, let's face it, spending eternity with no Voltaire and German writing writers would be Fritz' idea of hell...
Re: French gardens, here's the ultimate Italian-French combo, not Versailles but the Renaissance gardens of Villandry (one of the Loire chateaus):
Which I found very pretty indeed, but yes, I prefer the English style, too. For some photos of the Munich English Garden in autumnm, see here.
Incidentally, FW2 changing the garden style at Sanssouci from French to English may or may not have been just for aesthetic reasons, of course....
Re: Lehndorff replies
Date: 2022-07-17 12:03 pm (UTC)So true. I maintain that no matter where they ended up, though, Voltaire and Fritz would find a way to correspond. I choose to believe.
Also, do the German greats really *want* to hang out with Fritz in the afterlife? That sounds like a case of "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it" to me. ;)
Which I found very pretty indeed, but yes, I prefer the English style, too.
Yes, exactly! My reaction to the Hofgarten and later such gardens was: "It's extremely pretty, but it doesn't speak to me."
no subject
Date: 2022-07-17 12:12 pm (UTC)I think Horowski spends some time on it too. If I end up rereading that chapter, I'll try to do a write-up for you,
Lastly, here's a question for salon: what do we think Fritz' motives for denying Lehndorff's spring of 1756 request to emigrate with Charles Hotham Jr. were:
a) If I didn't get to London with my lover, NO ONE gets to go to London with their lover.
b) I don't want Fredersdorf to have to go hunting for another chamberlain for my wife, especially now that he's sick and I have a war upcoming
c) He's known Hotham for how many months? A guy who first shows bad judgment by swooning over my brother Heinrich and then wants to spend the rest of his life for a man he hardly knows clearly can't be trusted to make his own decisions, so I'm making them for him.
I think (a) may have been operating at a subconscious level, (b) was likely a practical consideration, but I think the way (a) manifested at the conscious level was to be rationalized as "If *I* can stay and do my duty to the state, Lehndorff can damn well stay and do his duty!"
That's my headcanon.
I was going to say last post, I'm glad at least Fredersdorf got to go to Paris. For his sake, of course, and also because it was probably the next best thing to getting to go himself for Fritz.
And
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Date: 2022-07-18 07:35 am (UTC)Selena: thanks for the links to the Lehndorff write-ups, I'll check them out! I don't know much about Heinrich's personality, but perhaps, even if Lehndorff was too intense for him and he had to keep him at a distance sometimes, maybe Lehndorff was also good at giving Heinrich emotional support? And his constancy might have been an ego-boost, too.
In pagan times, they would have made him a god, in our time, all who know him build altars to him in their hearts.
OMG. I have never been so deep in love that I was lost to the truth that, to other people, my crush was just an ordinary person.
Could Lehndorff not just have...quit his job and gone to London with his lover? But I guess if he did that he would be in disfavor and not have been able to come back to court?
Oh, and here's another bit from the Mrs Calderwood journal:
I saw the Countess of Coventry at Ranelagh. I think she is a pert, stinking-like [haughty] husy, going about with her face up to the sky, that she might see from under her hat, which she had pulled quite over her nose that nobody might see her face. She was in dishabile and very shabby drest, but was painted over her very jaw-bones.
This is Maria Gunning whom I wrote about in a previous comment! Her sister is Elizabeth Gunning who was married to two Dukes and turned down a third one because he didn't want her to associate with her sister. Anyway, the interesting thing about the quote is that Maria Gunning likely died from using too much make-up, and this (judgy) quote does show that she is wearing an unusual amount of make-up.
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Date: 2022-07-18 07:50 am (UTC)He could not! Not legally, anyway! Nobles and royals had to have their monarch's permission to travel abroad, much less to move. It took Heinrich forever just to get permission from Fritz to travel abroad, and he had to use a certain amount of sleight-of-hand to make it happen.
Yes, you *could* try to illegally emigrate, and people did (some even succeeded), but just like illegal immigration today, there were consequences if you tried and failed. (Fritz tried and failed when he was 18. He got locked up in prison and had to watch his bff/lover's head get cut off for helping him.) And even if you tried and succeeded, there might be consequences for your family left behind, or for anyone who was suspected of being in the know.
It's one of those things we take for granted now, but, for that matter, consider how "easy" it was to defect from Soviet Russia to the west in the twentieth century. Not just a matter of quitting your job and not being able to go back.
Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-18 08:05 am (UTC)I don't for sure, but from what I've read (having never been there!), Versailles was built on a hill (which limited the ability to expand--Colbert is supposed to have protested), and rooms with a view over the garden were at a premium, so it might have been designed to look good from the palace.
I also know that people took advantage of the high hedges to have secret rendezvous, since privacy was Not A Thing in the palace, but I don't know if that was part of the design intent or just a side effect that came in handy later.
Good question!
that he has cried out religion, as folks do fire when they want assistance; and that this has not been a sudden impulse of his, but that he has laid his scheme some time before, to make religion a handle to exequte what he intends.
AHAHAHAHA, I see this woman has Fritz's number. :D
But then she loses the plot a bit with "not but his intentions are good, but who can depend upon executing their projects?" Fritz's execution was better than his intentions (though with a certain amount of luck and the occasional miracle.)
led his body a gray gate
I had to look this one up in the OED:
Scottish, Irish English (northern), and English regional (northern). to go a grey gate and variants: to become bad or wicked; to come to a bad end.
It seems that "gate" in this sense is Scottish spelling for the word that standard English spells "gait", and the Scottish has a wider variety of meanings, such as "way, road, path," both literal and figurative. In the case of "go a grey gate," it would be the figurative meaning.
the Saxons are protestants, and have a popish king who is otherways provided for ; he has shown he is not able to protect them, so that, if the King of Prussia could make them beleive he has abdicated the crown, they may call a convention of the states, and call a king of their own religion, and let him be head of his own protestant subjects, but not of any body else's.
That is interesting! Alas, Fritz had far more nefarious plans for Saxony, and they did not involve making his neighbor stronger for the sake of a religion he didn't believe in anyway.
Thanks for the write-up!
Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-18 08:28 am (UTC)Heinrich: And with his exploited co-workers saving his butt, cough, cough.
It’s interesting that despite seeing through the “I’m doing this for the Protestant cause” excuse, she still seems to think Fritz letting the Saxons vote for a Protestant (client-?)King is an option.
Fritz: busy checking out the Saxon loot instead.
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Date: 2022-07-18 09:10 am (UTC)Mildred told you already why Lehndorff as a Prussian noble couldn’t just quit and go to London with Hotham without royal permission. Incidentally, there’s also a question of finances. Lehndorff at this point of his life was a younger brother without any income of his own if he quit his office as chamberlain and gets cut off by his older brother from the estate revenues (which said older brother would have had to do if he didn’t want to risk royal disgrace himself. Now, since Lehndorff, who is handicaped due to a lame foot, isn’t part of the army, he doesn’t risk the death penalty if he leaves without permission, but he certainly risks finding himself broke abroad and utterly dependent on his lover. Who is all of 21 and presumably also dependent on a father or uncle for his income.
Heinrich’s personality is in many ways that of his oldest brother, i.e. Fritz, which is why the two clash so often. There are some differences, too, of course, partly through their different life circumstances - first crown prince, then King vs 13th and last-but-one child of a large royal brood - and partly because Fritz is a warning example, but they do have a lot of eerie similarities. They’re both gay, loving music and (French) literature with more than avarage-for-a-noble passion, both start out hating the dullness of military drill (but not being in the military isn’t an option anymore for a Prussian prince once their father has changed the Prussian mentality in his image) and the hierarchic soldier life, and end up as superb generals anyway; they’re both sharp tongued, believe themselves immune to flattery but are anything but; and then there’s the part where Fritz deliberately has the 14 years younger Heinrich recreate parts of his life, which alas includes forcing him to marry as a disciplinary measure just as their father has forced him, but also includes giving him Rheinsberg, his favorite place to be, with the caveat that Heinrich isn’t actually allowed to live there until he’s submitted properly by marrying. Both Fritz and Heinrich were also terrible husbands to their unwanted wives, being constitutionally incapable of seeing the actual woman as opposed as a symbol of their humiliation and the tight hold Dad/Big Brother has on them.
Key differences include the part where Heinrich could actually delegate (like I said, Fritz is a warning example), and also the part where while contemporaries and historians never stopped debating how much or little sex Fritz actually had, hardly anyone thought or thinks Heinrich’s relationships with his (male) favourites were platonic. They were also different types of general, which was really lucky for Prussia in the 7 Years War. Fritz excelled at ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, winning against the odds but with incredibly high losses of life; Heinrich was good at exhausting and tricking his enemies before there ever was a battle, and for being able to choose the ground he wanted (because he could run the usually superior enemy ragged first).
Emotional support is definitely something Lehndorff offered through the decades, and it’s probably not a coincidence that while they had known each other for two years already at that point, with Lehndorff friends of all three of Fritz’ younger brothers, Heinrich becoming closer to him and him falling in love with Heinrich happened in the year of Heinrich’s marriage. (Like I said, two years after they’ve met, so, not a case of love on sight.) And that’s when the accolades in the diary start. Of course, this was an emo age and flattering royalty was what courtiers did, but even within that caveat, Lehndorff well and truly stands out in his smitten-ness. He later notes down Heinrich’s less flattering traits as well (though his worst trait in Lehndorff’s eyes will always be falling for the wrong men), but as the entry quoted in this post shows, never entirely loses the part where you feel he’d have drawn sparkly hearts around Heinrich’s name if that had already been an option in the 18th century.
Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-18 11:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-07-18 03:23 pm (UTC)Heartbreaking three letters tale: it occured to me to countercheck this against Schöning's the SECOND Chamber Hussar's story; my write up doesn't mention it, and I don't recall it from there, but otoh it might still be there and I just don't remember, I only read that text once. Anyway, I still thinkg we're on good grounds to say that whoever Lehndorff's source was, it wasn't Schöning. But Lehndorff was on good terms with Luccessini and the other last few readers, and any of them could have told him.
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Date: 2022-07-19 08:23 am (UTC)Ah, okay! Even if he was just a younger son? Was this common in Europe at the time? I know I'm terribly insular (ha ha) and reading mostly about British history, but I can't recall such instances there...
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Date: 2022-07-19 08:25 am (UTC)Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-19 08:38 am (UTC)Ah, that's a good theory. Re: assignations among the hedges at Versailles, I was actually keeping a lookout for such opportunities since there's a Flight of the Heron fic where that happens. *g* They are mostly long and straight, without handy little nooks, so it didn't look ideal. But what you could do is venture inside the hedges. A fair number of them are broad, and while there are fences now to keep you from going inside, there might not have been earlier. I bet you could spread your cloak on the ground and have an exciting assignation there. The vegetation on the ground didn't seem very thick.
The book had a footnote to explain the 'grey gate' thing, and provided another example: It's a sair pity to behold youthfu' blood gaun a gate sae gray.' 'Gate' does (or did) mean road/way in northern England as well, as you can see in street names, which must come from Scandinavian languages, since 'gata' means street in Swedish. I hadn't connected it with 'gait' though!
Fritz's execution was better than his intentions
Ha, I love that phrasing.
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Date: 2022-07-21 06:21 am (UTC)Not as far as I know. I could be wrong, and am currently not in a position to look it up, but I think it might have been a Brandenburg/Prussia speciality, mostly designed to prevent foreign nobles and monarchs to gain a claim on some Prussian estate via an emigrating noble. It's worth keeping in mind that Prussia was near broke just a few decades ago before FW changed this via a massive austerity program, the rebuilding of the economy, a massive military build up and a rewriting of an entire mentality. Pre Friedrich Wilhelm I., whether or not your avarage Prussian noble send one or several sons to the military was an individual decision. Post FW, not having served in the army at least for some time if you were healthy was a shameful thing for sons of the nobility, and if you didn't serve the state somehow, you're equally side-eyed. (One of many reasons why I amuse myself now and then contemplating the scenario where young FW does indeed get adopted and made his heir by William of Orange. The English nobility faced with a workoholic puritan control freak with a massive temper problem who expects each of them to serve the state would be a sight to behold.)
Anyway, I think Lehndorff not just as an English or French noble but also as, say, a Bavarian or Saxon noble would not have had that problem.
no subject
Date: 2022-07-21 09:30 am (UTC)Looking at the examples I can think of where leaving the country was a problem, it's not clear to me that Lehndorff would have been in the same position in another country, but it's not clear that he wouldn't.
France: McKay's description of why Eugene of Savoy was chased when leaving the country goes like this:
On 26 July Eugene and his close friend the prince of Conti fled from Paris without Louis's permission. Because Conti was a French prince of the blood efforts were made by the king's agents to stop the pair as they crossed Germany. They were caught at Frankfurt. Conti was persuaded to return, but Eugene refused and went on.
The preceding page makes it look like Eugene had not yet joined the French army but had asked for permission to join it and been refused, so it doesn't sound like the problem here is desertion. It sounds like he was supposed to ask for permission in the first place, even as a random noble, and if he hadn't made it to Germany, he would have been dragged back, but because he wasn't a soldier committing desertion, there wouldn't have been a death penalty.
This matches my impression of people asking permission to leave, although of course right now
I can't think of specific examples!
Russia: One of the essays I read on Tsarevitch Alexei's flight says: "With his flight abroad, he committed desertion as a soldier and treason as a civil servant." Like Fritz, Alexei hadn't asked to be either of those things. But he was also a royal, which might be different from random nobles.
My impression is that Peter the Great would not have been okay with random nobles, even younger sons, leaving the country without permission; like FW, he was big on creating a culture of service among the nobility. The difference was that Peter's problem with the nobility was more usually that he was forcibly shipping them abroad to learn Western ways and they kept trying to sneak back!
Portgual: Manuel, who had to sneak aboard an English ship, and the English ambassador offered to chase him down for João, was a prince of the blood. (Btw, we celebrated his not getting married, but now that I'm looking at the book again, it says that according to his sister-in-law, he was very keen to get married!)
It's not clear to me from this whether random nobles were allowed to leave or travel Portugal without permission.
I'm also of the impression that holding a court office like Lehndorff's wasn't technically at-will employment, meaning you were supposed to get permission from most monarchs (at least the absolute ones) before you left, not just hand in your resignation and leave. Augustus III was not pleased with even civilian foreigner Algarotti handing in his resignation without asking permission, although because he was a foreigner and already outside the country, there was little Augustus (who was pretty chill about such things) could do. And Louis XV had to give permission for Voltaire to join Fritz's court, even though he wasn't a noble, because he held a court office.
So my impression is that in most absolute monarchies of the period, it would have been at least somewhat problematic for Lehndorff to go, "Nah, don't want to be chamberlain any more, bye!" and leave. Actual consequences? Well, not the death penalty, but if the monarch cares enough, they can probably drag you back.
But whether younger noble sons without an office could just leave without permission like in Prussia...my impression is no in France and Russia, but that's an impression. I would not be surprised if it was a thing in Spain and Portugal, maybe even somewhere like Tuscany or Savoy.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Joseph II tried this in Austria, if it wasn't already a thing there. It tends to go hand-in-hand with creating a culture of service among the nobility (which is partly why I think that was Fritz's dominant motive in denying Lehndorff).
Charles XI of Sweden definitely tried to create a culture of service among his nobility, but the nobles retained more power there than in other countries, and they managed to reverse absolutism in 1719, so I kind of doubt having to ask the monarch for permission was a thing after 1719, and I'm not sure if Charles XI or XII had the time to do it before then.
I know I'm terribly insular (ha ha) and reading mostly about British history, but I can't recall such instances there...
I can recall an instance of the reverse: before becoming king, George I had to agree not to leave England (for Hanover, in practice) without getting Parliament's permission first! IIRC, after a few years, they realized that was impracticable, so revoked it.
ETA: Ah! Googling gets me a modern, unreliable book that matches my impression for Russia:
In Russia even the nobility (deemed essential for military service), had to get the tsar or tsarina's permission to leave the country.
I seem to recall Victor Amadeus of Savoy cracking down on nobles joining other country's militaries without permission, but I'm not sure about civilians going abroad to live with their lovers.
One thing that's tangentially related: in France, not just nobles but as far as I know anyone had to be thirty before they could marry without their parents' permission. Diderot got locked up at the age of 29 to prevent him from marrying someone unsuitable.
ETA 2: I found the relevant passage in Blackstone, confirming that in England you did have the right to travel by default:
And at present everybody has, or at least assumes, the liberty of going abroad when he pleases. Yet undoubtedly if the king, by writ of ne exeat regnum, under his great seal or privy seal, thinks proper to prohibit him from so doing; or if the king sends a writ to any man, when abroad, commanding his return; and, in either case, the subject disobeys; it is a high contempt of the king’s prerogative, for which the offender's lands shall be seized till he return; and then he is liable to fine and imprisonment
But it was not always thus:
By the common law, every man may go out of the realm for whatever cause he pleaseth, without obtaining the king’s leave; provided he is under no injunction of staying at home, (which liberty was expressly declared in king John’s great charter, though left out in that of Henry III.:) but, because that every man ought of right to defend the king and his realm, therefore the king at his pleasure may command him by his writ that he go not beyond the seas, or out of the realm, without license; and, if he do the contrary, he shall be punished for disobeying the king’s command. Some persons there anciently were, that, by reason of their stations, were under a perpetual prohibition of going abroad without license obtained; among which were reckoned all peers, on account of their being counsellors of the crown; all knights, who were bound to defend the kingdom from invasions; all ecclesiastics, who were expressly confined by the fourth chapter of the constitutions of Clarendon, on account of their attachment in the times of popery to the see of Rome; all archers and other artificers, lest they should instruct foreigners to rival us in their several trades and manufactures. This was law in the times of Britton, who wrote in the reign of Edward I.: and Sir Edward Coke gives us many instances to this effect in the time of Edward III. In the succeeding reign the affair of travelling wore a very different aspect: an act of parliament being made, forbidding all persons whatever to go abroad without license; except only the lords and other great men of the realm; and true and notable merchants; and the king’s soldiers. But this act was repealed by the statute 4 Jac. I. c. 1.
Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-21 09:53 am (UTC)Hee! But I would like to add that I'm not talking about private sex, I'm talking about private conversations. The way Versailles culture was set up, if you could get someone alone for a few minutes, you could ask them to do you a favor without anyone else knowing, and that was absolutely at a premium. The stakes were high, privacy was rare, and intrigues were the air the court breathed.
And as for Louis, I seem to have some memory of him (although it could have been someone else) taking advantage of the privacy when turning a corner to arrange future sex with a woman he wanted to sleep with. It only takes a minute or two to say, "Meet me at place X at Y o'clock." Louis' life was public enough, and women chaperoned enough, that that minute or two, which we take for granted, would have been really hard to come by. (There is a whole chapter in Horowski about how difficult it was for Louis XIV to get privacy for sex with a mistress; amd Horowski also talks for great length about the importance of privacy for favor-soliciting conversations (and how even then, someone might be hiding under the bed eavesdropping!)) I mean, there was the whole time Louis XV dressed up as a tree in order to be able to talk to Madame de Pompadour (not yet so-called) privately at a ball!
But whether that was the intent or just a side-effect, I don't know. Even a book I have on the history of Versailles doesn't seem to mention the hedges! Maybe the view just looked really good this way from Louis' suite. ;)
Ooh, I wonder if Uwe Schultz's book on Versailles would mention it. He's usually pretty detailed. Meh, I can't get it as an e-book. Alas!
no subject
Date: 2022-07-21 10:36 am (UTC)I hope he at least enjoyed the opera!
Schöning: I started reading through it, and I got to the part where he talks about Fritz's death, and he says, "Towards the evening of August 15, he lost all consciousness, and died in this state of unconsciousness on the morning of August 17, at 20 Minuten auf 3 Uhr."
Selena, "auf" is not a way of telling time I'm familiar with, and Google isn't helping either. The time I know for Fritz's death is 2:20 am. Is that what he's saying here? That would not be my first guess as to how to interpret that, but who knows!
The other place that would be likely to have the story of the last three letters is the 1786 pamphlet on his last hours and death, but it's not there either. It gives the time of death as 2:19.
Other tidbits from Schöning: Fritz moved out of Sans Souci in late November or even December. For some reason I thought it was October! This contradicts one of my fics. :P
Schöning also said he loved Sans Souci so much he would sometimes move in as early as March (normally not until April) and not leave until December! I assume the weather played a role here, but I like to imagine Fritz going, "I'm freezing but it's WORTH IT!" :D
Also, we debated a while ago whether Fritz played the harpsichord (as Massie claimed), and I adduced some evidence that he did. Schöning says he played the clavier a little, so more evidence.
no subject
Date: 2022-07-21 10:49 am (UTC)It's a bit old fashioned, but also related to more modern slang. For example, "Viertel vier" isn't 4:15, it's 3:15, since it hails from "viertel auf Vier". So yes, it means 2:20.
FW dragged out the time for his favourite palace, Wusterhausen till late November, too, but having been in both, I think Sanssouci is less warmth/cold insulated.
(Knobelsdorff: Not my fault!)
no subject
Date: 2022-07-21 10:55 am (UTC)"Viertel vier" isn't 4:15, it's 3:15
See, that I knew,
since it hails from "viertel auf Vier".
...but that I didn't know. TIL!
but having been in both, I think Sanssouci is less warmth/cold insulated.
FW: See, this is why you gotta take your architectural cues from the Dutch, who prioritized comfort over conspicuous consumption!
(Knobelsdorff: Not my fault!)
Heee! Well, apparently Colbert's objections about Versailles were overridden by Louis, so you're in good company, Knobelsdorff.
(Versailles: also impossible to heat.)
ETA: I am reminded that while Louis XIV suffered sleeping all night in the state bed for the sake of his majesty, Louis XV, less majestic as well as less heroic, would apparently be put to bed by his nobles in the state bed, then sneak off to a smaller, easier to heat nook, sleep there, and sneak back in the next morning in time to be "woken up" in the state bed.
I'm with you on that, XV!
Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-21 11:10 am (UTC)The stakes were high, privacy was rare, and intrigues were the air the court breathed.
I would have made such a bad French courtier...
Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-21 10:02 pm (UTC)Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-22 09:28 am (UTC)Re: Luzula replies
Date: 2022-07-22 10:24 am (UTC)