Frederick the Great and Other 18th-C Characters, Discussion Post 31

[cahn]

And in this post:

-luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!

-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, and selenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!

-mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War

(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)

-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D

Comments

Re: Yuletide surprise

[mildred_of_midgard]

the way my mind is wired produces only the following „Five Ways Katte lives“

What about "G2 kills FW in 1729?"

which leads to Wilhelmine dying of the results. Fritz never forgives himself or Katte for this and does not want to see Katte ever again.

Wow. Seriously. :P

I mean, my "break it differently" Hunger Games epic ended in my protagonist's assisted suicide brought on by terminal illness + clinical depression, so it's not like I don't experience the urge to break things differently. Just not Fritz, Katte, and Wilhelmine.

Fritz, Katte, Wilhelmine, and Peter make it to Rottembourg's estate. Rottembourg adopts Fritz and leaves him a fortune. They all go to Italy on the Grand Tour together. The end. <3

(AW and Heinrich are not abused by Fritz, but Heinrich gets to channel his inner Fritz as the power behind the throne. Prussians and Austrians beware.)

Conclusion: Fritz/Katte is not a pairing a Fritz/Katte shipper wants me to write!

Lol, well, speaking for myself, you writing Fritz/Katte is fine! I'm delighted "Fiat Justitia" exists and had a wonderful time reading it. It's just...how do I say this...treat, not sole gift. ;) (Which is why getting the Madness gift to go with it was perfect. :))

Re: Yuletide surprise

[cahn]

I'm amazed you even want it as a treat! :)

Re: Yuletide surprise

[selenak]

Mes amies, there seems to be a misunderstanding here. I listed all these ways as a reason why I won't, repeat, won't write Fritz/Katte. There are about a million things I'd rather gift Mildred with, or you. (Since the revenge plot is already used, which was the one idea I did want to write, not for the F/K aspect but for the Wilhelmine one.) I'd rather write Fritz/Fredersdorf curtain fic that one of these! (Which, btw, can easily be done. You just know they went shopping (in an 18th century fashion) for Rheinsberg. The whole thing was supposed to demonstrate that if the newbie is to get any Fritz/Katte for Yuletide, it will have to be from one of you because I CAN'T DO IT.

Re: Yuletide surprise

[mildred_of_midgard]

Oh, I knew what you meant! I just saw you say that no Fritz/Katte shipper wanted you to write Fritz/Katte, and I wanted to make sure you knew I appreciated "Fiat Justitia." As a treat. :P

We're on the same page about Rheinsberg curtain fic. Yes plz! :)

Fandom DNWs vs. non-DNWs

[cahn]

Haha, yeah, I misunderstood and confess to having been a little surprised! And there are certainly no shortage of plots I'd rather you write for me! Just saying that if you did want to write some sort of terrible break-it-differently/worse for... most things... I would definitely read and enjoy it :D

But then I'm not a Fritz/Katte shipper. At least not yet. But this whole discussion made me realize even more than I already did (which was a lot) that I've super gone over to being a Fredersdorf groupie, because even though I'm totally okay with him not getting shipped with Fritz, I'm NOT willing to have break-it-worse-than-canon for him like I am for Fritz/Katte. Time travel bad stuff only okay if he fixes it at the end! NO FICTIONAL EMBEZZLEMENT! I'm just saying :)

(...and because I'm contrary and like to come up with exceptions, I realized it would be okay in a 4+1 scenario, where the last one was a fix-it or at least no worse than our view of canon. Lol.)

(I am still suuuuuper excited about Fiat Justitia, my awesomesauce gift :D Though yeah, for me mostly because WILHELMINE getting to DO stuff, and also Wilhelmine & Katte-after-Fritz, which is such an interesting relationship, not because of F/K as such.)

Re: Fandom DNWs vs. non-DNWs

[mildred_of_midgard]

Heee! Go you! We still have you to thank for the fact that the embezzlement mystery got cleared up. Your insistence inspired my persistence!

I've super gone over to being a Fredersdorf groupie

Lol forever. You have! You've even contributed to his defense fund!

Um, are you okay if Fredersdorf is Sir Not Appearing in a fix-it fic in which Fritz escapes in 1730 and never becomes king, meaning he and Fritz never meet and he presumably doesn't get to love his best life (or at least not in the same way)?

Re: Fandom DNWs vs. non-DNWs

[selenak]

See, that's another reason why I won't write Fritz/Katte happily ever after. It's odd, Fritz/Voltaire and Fritz/Fredersdorf, both of which I'm invested in, are entirely compatible for me, and you've even persuaded me to Fritz/Algarotti. Not to mention that Fritz & Heinrich and Fritz & Wilhelmine are where my heart lies, too. But somehow I can't see Fritz/Fredersdorf coexisting with Fritz/Katte, and I know which one I want to happen more. :)

(All of which doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy reading Fredersdorf-less Fritz/Katte, especially written by you, and I suspect the same is true of Cahn.

BTW, while you and I both see Peter haunted by Katte in various ways, oddly enough I've never seen Fredersdorf developing a Katte complex, possibly because their stations in life and relationships with Fritz were too different. However, now I wonder whether one day I'll write a ghost story in which a literal ghost!Katte, looking for Fritz, encounters Fredersdorf instead and the two, different as they are, find they get along.

Re: Fandom DNWs vs. non-DNWs

[mildred_of_midgard]

But somehow I can't see Fritz/Fredersdorf coexisting with Fritz/Katte, and I know which one I want to happen more. :)

Heee. I've always suspected that if Katte had lived, I'd have very little interest in him. It's just that a certain kind of tragedy always gives me an insatiable itch to scratch, and THAT DEATH SCENE.

oddly enough I've never seen Fredersdorf developing a Katte complex, possibly because their stations in life and relationships with Fritz were too different.

Yeah, I think Peter's complex (assuming he had one) was first of all being directly tied to the tragedy, being the one who lived while Katte died, and then to the fact that Fritz kept favoring the Kattes while basically ignoring him. Fredersdorf had no direct connection to the Katte tragedy, and a lot of favor from Fritz, so nothing to feel either guilty or insecure about.

However, now I wonder whether one day I'll write a ghost story in which a literal ghost!Katte, looking for Fritz, encounters Fredersdorf instead and the two, different as they are, find they get along.

Would read!

Re: Fandom DNWs vs. non-DNWs

[cahn]

[I wrote this yesterday but didn't apparently hit post comment, and in the meantime I see mildred replied with something similar]

well obviously the solution to this is OT3 Well, actually not, because I see what you mean about Fredersdorf not developing a Katte complex, which I also think -- I think for me it's also because the Fritz he knew was always one who didn't have Katte in his life (as opposed to Peter), and Fredersdorf isn't the type, in my headcanon, to be jealous of someone who's dead and who literally can't be a living rival. I mean... maybe, if Fritz were the type to be all "I can't pay attention to you because too busy obsessing over my tragically dead boyfriend," but... we have abundant evidence that's not Fritz.

(All of which doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy reading Fredersdorf-less Fritz/Katte, especially written by you, and I suspect the same is true of Cahn.

YUP. If he doesn't appear I am free to either not think about him at all (most likely) or to imagine him being happy doing something else (and maybe he doesn't do alchemy!!) even if maybe it's not quite as optimal and suited to him as being Fritz's guy! It's just, DON'T add an explicit line being like "...and because they never met, Fredersdorf ended up in bad straits and died in a ditch somewhere" and I'm good.

Re: Fandom DNWs vs. non-DNWs

[mildred_of_midgard]

YUP. If he doesn't appear I am free to either not think about him at all (most likely) or to imagine him being happy doing something else

Excellent! I mean, not that I'm optimistic about finishing this, but every other day I'm thinking about something I should add to it or change about it, so it's very much a living story in my head. ;)

maybe he doesn't do alchemy!!

Ooh, an excellent point! A minor fix-it for him too, in one respect.

even if maybe it's not quite as optimal and suited to him as being Fritz's guy!

Lol, I realized I typoed it "love his best life" above, and...that's a really great and accurate typo. <3

It's just, DON'T add an explicit line being like "...and because they never met, Fredersdorf ended up in bad straits and died in a ditch somewhere" and I'm good.

And I would NEVER!--*hugs Fredersdorf protectively*--so we're good.

Also, you guys, I gotta say...Fredersdorf got to live his best life IN REAL LIFE. Fiction is all Katte's got! :'-(