Because that's indeed what she did, by her own words, no need to allege anything. In other words, I came across this two-volume edition of Ulrike letters to her family (or rather: letter excerpts, and all in French) and here's the one in question, to Fritz, from March 8th, 1754:
I am enclosing here some papers which I believe are worth giving you. I had learned that the Lewenhaupt household kept letters from my grandmother from Zel[le], written to the unfortunate Count de Königsmarck. I found a way to steal them [or "have them stolen" - "faire voler"], which has been successful with a few; but the evil is that there are some that are in code. As everything that concerns the unfortunate Duchess of Zel[le], it's hardly honorable, I wish I could remove the others. In the meantime, I send you these, which can serve you as clarification on her way of thinking. I would be charmed, my dear brother, if I could succeed in the idea that I had, that it might merit your curiosity [... - by the editor]
It seems to me that her idea was both "family dirt belongs in the family" and to ingratiate herself with Fritz, but also, regarding the "clarification on her way of thinking" bit, I'm wondering if they'd talked and speculated about her before, it almost sounds like it. She writes several letters to SD around the same time, but unfortunately, the editor only gives excerpts, so there's no way to tell if she mentioned the stolen letters to her as well, but it might have been a taboo topic with SD regardless.
Unfortunately, Trier doesn't have an answering letter from Fritz (there's a gap between 1747 and 1764), which is rather annoying. Droysen says that he put the letters in an envelope he labeled "Lettres d´amour de la Duchesse d´Allen au conte Königsmarck" and kept them in Sanssouci. Later on, the packet ended up in the state archive.
If Mildred is Holmes, you're clearly Poirot. Hats off! That was a great find.
It seems to me that her idea was both "family dirt belongs in the family" and to ingratiate herself with Fritz, but also, regarding the "clarification on her way of thinking" bit, I'm wondering if they'd talked and speculated about her before, it almost sounds like it.
It definitely does! Mind you, they'd have been in good company with the rest of Europe for decades, because the unsolved murder/disappearance of Königsmarck made it into a mystery. Famously Louis XIV quizzed his sister-in-law Liselotte whether or not she thought G1 did it. (On the rationale that Liselotte's having been co-raised by G1's mother Sophie of Hannover must give her an in to Hannover secrets.) And a locked up Grandmother would interest bright, curious children, especially since SD on the one hand always presented her family as the ultimate goal to aspire to but otoh, yes, I do think must have kept silent on the subject of her mother.
I mean, I can't be sure, but I'm willing to bet on it, based on a) SD not visiting SDC when she has the chance to, and b) G2 never talking about SDC at all. (If you believe Hervey, who claims he never ever mentioned her. Walpole, otoh, says he didn't mention her within G1's life time but did put her portrait up in his rooms once G1 was dead and then proclaimed his faith in her innocence and swore he'd have brought her to Britain had she still been alive. But Walpole is speaking by second hand testimony - his source is G2's mistress Lady Sussex - while Hervey speaks of what he has personally observed.) There's also the way SD for all her marital warfare with FW absolutely panics when it looks like he may divorce her and seems to consider anything preferable to the fate of being a divorced and sent away/locked up wife (like her mother). So I'm going with "SD did not talk about her at all, but the children did among themselves and possibly with courtiers who'd known her. If in doubt, ask Pöllnitz for gossip, etc.
Here's the biggest question, though: did or didn't Fritz see parallels between SDC's attempt to run away with her lover and his own?
She writes several letters to SD around the same time, but unfortunately, the editor only gives excerpts
If this is in 1754, it may overlap with the letters quoted in the Wilhelmine-on-her-travels archive I linked at rheinsberg, but alas there the website editor also just posted excerpts from Ulrike's letters to SD, and ones dealing with Wilhelmine at that.
If Mildred is Holmes, you're clearly Poirot. Hats off! That was a great find.
Yes! A detective *and* a reader of German, we're so lucky to have you, felis. \o/
It's like Christmas every day in this fandom! "I want a picture of FW's death mask!" "Done." "I want someone to read me Nicolai anecdotes." "Done." "I want to know what our source is on Ulrike stealing letters." "Done!"
Man. :D :D :D
but also, regarding the "clarification on her way of thinking" bit, I'm wondering if they'd talked and speculated about her before, it almost sounds like it
Definitely sounds like it to me.
I mean, I can't be sure, but I'm willing to bet on it, based on a) SD not visiting SDC when she has the chance to, and b) G2 never talking about SDC at all.
Agreed.
Here's the biggest question, though: did or didn't Fritz see parallels between SDC's attempt to run away with her lover and his own?
Ahaha, given the icon I've been using around these parts, I'll go with "AU!Holmes". ;)
re: Pöllnitz - I see that wiki credits him with writing a whole book about her! Published in 1732, even though she died in 1726 already. Maybe he got inspired by parallels...
SD not visiting SDC when she has the chance to [...] So I'm going with "SD did not talk about her at all
As I learned today, she did have contact with her, though, secretly through intermediaries. SDC wrote to her and possibly vice versa, and SD even mentioned that fact in her letters to FW: Two 1715 examples: „My mother tells me that she thought she would burn, her room having caught fire." and "The Duchess of Celle [= SDC's mother] tells me that she wrote a letter to the King of England but has no answer, which is a bad sign that my poor mother will always be locked up." And after SDC died in 1726, she wrote: „I quite suspected that my mother's death would embarrass my father and if he could hide it, he would be happy to do so. I believe my brother will be touched anyway, he loved her and everything that is happening can't please him. I flatter myself however, that my father will mourn and my brother will wear mourning, as it should be, and that there will be no quarrels, which would really upset me." Which is quite a remarkable thing to say! Apparently they even mourned her officially in Berlin, which didn't please GI at all, but I'm not sure how reliable that information is, because I couldn't find a source. The letter quotes are via Droysen (page in question here) from the royal archive. So maybe she did talk about her after all? I guess not visiting her might have been a result of SD's eagerness to secure the English double marriage, i.e. not wanting to upset her father. Unsourced information says that she even promised her mother to plead her case as soon as the marriages were through, but again, really not sure if that information is reliable or speculation.
By the way, I had no idea that GI visited Berlin in 1725!
Speaking of the linked SD letters (Aus den Briefen der Königin Sophie-Dorothea, Hohenzollern Jahrbuch again), those were a fascinating read.
This one to FW, also from 1715, made me laugh: I am beginning to believe that Milord Bolinbroke was right when he wrote to Milord Strafford that your Soldiers were your mistresses, because since you saw them again, you no longer think of me. I believe, however, that my thirty thousand rivals could well give me an hour a day, because you will not find in these thirty thousand as much tenderness as you find in that of your faithful Fique. (Fique apparently what she called herself/he called her? And he got nicknamed "Wilke", in case you didn't/needed to know.) The rest of them are much less of a laughing matter, though, what with FW's rudeness and suspicions of infidelity, culminating in him apparently repeatedly mentioning/threatening divorce.
And then there's all the Fritz and sibling related stuff. This one for example broke my heart for him all over again, from 1728, SD to FW: „You can be assured that I will not say anything and will not tell him that you wrote to me; if he knew that you hate him and wish him death, he would be in despair and it would kill him. He is already too ill. God take the thoughts you have against him, and you govern your heart. I believe you wrote to me against him out of malice, to see what I will answer you."
Plus, Droysen collects and reproduces almost every mention of the kids in her letters to FW during their childhood years (up until 1725), mostly Fritz and Wilhelmine, occasionally Friederike, very occasionally Charlotte and little Wilhelm, who died after two years. All of these are only a couple sentences each and a mix of cute, mundane, and heartbreaking, obviously tailored for FW and quite revealing that way. I'd encountered some of the facts before - that Wilhelmine, age five, got beaten for accidentally scratching her little brother for example :( - but reading all of these in row over the years is quite fascinating. See: the repeated mentions of Fritz trying to prove that he totally isn't a coward anymore, starting when he is four whole years old. Sigh.
I am beginning to believe that Milord Bolinbroke was right when he wrote to Milord Strafford that your Soldiers were your mistresses, because since you saw them again, you no longer think of me.
Ha, that made me laugh too!
I believe, however, that my thirty thousand rivals could well give me an hour a day, because you will not find in these thirty thousand as much tenderness as you find in that of your faithful Fique.
That's... rather sweet. And awful too, given what you say about the rest of the letters :( (I feel like "FW's suspicions of infidelity" is one of those things that probably got said repeatedly here and of course sounds like him, but I'd forgotten about that particular bit of awfulness. FW >:( )
You can be assured that I will not say anything and will not tell him that you wrote to me; if he knew that you hate him and wish him death, he would be in despair and it would kill him.
OMG! FW!
See: the repeated mentions of Fritz trying to prove that he totally isn't a coward anymore, starting when he is four whole years old.
Wow, that is kind of heartbreaking, that she had to contact her secretly through intermediaries. (Even more parallels to Fritz -- Wilhelmine in his case...)
I believe my brother will be touched anyway, he loved her and everything that is happening can't please him.
IDK, this just seems like a really sad thing to say. Poor SDC :(
That is so cool that you found that, and fascinating! I find myself rather amused by her stating that some are in code. I wonder whether they managed to break it?
I don't know how far Fritz and Ulrike got (I would like to know!), but apparently historians have only partially deciphered it to this day!
Run this through Google translate; I don't have time atm.
Der Kurfürst hieß ihnen Don Diego, dessen Mätresse Platen dazu passend «die dicke Dondons, Sophie Dorotheas Vater «der Mürrischen, ihre Mutter «der Pädagoge» und sie selbst wahlweise «das kleine Schielauge», «das linke Herz» oder eben, vielleicht nach ihrem welfischen Löwenwappen, «Leonissa»; Königsmarck war natürlich der Ritter». Irgendwann reichte das jedoch nicht mehr, und so entwickelten die Liebenden nach einem etwas naiven Versuch, Klarnamen durch immer dieselbe vor- und nachgesetzte Silbe zu verschleiern (illyHannoverilly), schließlich ein bis heute nur in Teilen entschlüsseltes Nummernsystem, in dem 301 für das Jagdschloss Linsburg stand.
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Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-19 02:01 pm (UTC)I am enclosing here some papers which I believe are worth giving you. I had learned that the Lewenhaupt household kept letters from my grandmother from Zel[le], written to the unfortunate Count de Königsmarck. I found a way to steal them [or "have them stolen" - "faire voler"], which has been successful with a few; but the evil is that there are some that are in code. As everything that concerns the unfortunate Duchess of Zel[le], it's hardly honorable, I wish I could remove the others. In the meantime, I send you these, which can serve you as clarification on her way of thinking. I would be charmed, my dear brother, if I could succeed in the idea that I had, that it might merit your curiosity [... - by the editor]
It seems to me that her idea was both "family dirt belongs in the family" and to ingratiate herself with Fritz, but also, regarding the "clarification on her way of thinking" bit, I'm wondering if they'd talked and speculated about her before, it almost sounds like it. She writes several letters to SD around the same time, but unfortunately, the editor only gives excerpts, so there's no way to tell if she mentioned the stolen letters to her as well, but it might have been a taboo topic with SD regardless.
Unfortunately, Trier doesn't have an answering letter from Fritz (there's a gap between 1747 and 1764), which is rather annoying. Droysen says that he put the letters in an envelope he labeled "Lettres d´amour de la Duchesse d´Allen au conte Königsmarck" and kept them in Sanssouci. Later on, the packet ended up in the state archive.
Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-19 03:36 pm (UTC)It seems to me that her idea was both "family dirt belongs in the family" and to ingratiate herself with Fritz, but also, regarding the "clarification on her way of thinking" bit, I'm wondering if they'd talked and speculated about her before, it almost sounds like it.
It definitely does! Mind you, they'd have been in good company with the rest of Europe for decades, because the unsolved murder/disappearance of Königsmarck made it into a mystery. Famously Louis XIV quizzed his sister-in-law Liselotte whether or not she thought G1 did it. (On the rationale that Liselotte's having been co-raised by G1's mother Sophie of Hannover must give her an in to Hannover secrets.) And a locked up Grandmother would interest bright, curious children, especially since SD on the one hand always presented her family as the ultimate goal to aspire to but otoh, yes, I do think must have kept silent on the subject of her mother.
I mean, I can't be sure, but I'm willing to bet on it, based on a) SD not visiting SDC when she has the chance to, and b) G2 never talking about SDC at all. (If you believe Hervey, who claims he never ever mentioned her. Walpole, otoh, says he didn't mention her within G1's life time but did put her portrait up in his rooms once G1 was dead and then proclaimed his faith in her innocence and swore he'd have brought her to Britain had she still been alive. But Walpole is speaking by second hand testimony - his source is G2's mistress Lady Sussex - while Hervey speaks of what he has personally observed.) There's also the way SD for all her marital warfare with FW absolutely panics when it looks like he may divorce her and seems to consider anything preferable to the fate of being a divorced and sent away/locked up wife (like her mother). So I'm going with "SD did not talk about her at all, but the children did among themselves and possibly with courtiers who'd known her. If in doubt, ask Pöllnitz for gossip, etc.
Here's the biggest question, though: did or didn't Fritz see parallels between SDC's attempt to run away with her lover and his own?
She writes several letters to SD around the same time, but unfortunately, the editor only gives excerpts
If this is in 1754, it may overlap with the letters quoted in the Wilhelmine-on-her-travels archive I linked at
Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-19 09:40 pm (UTC)Yes! A detective *and* a reader of German, we're so lucky to have you,
It's like Christmas every day in this fandom! "I want a picture of FW's death mask!" "Done." "I want someone to read me Nicolai anecdotes." "Done." "I want to know what our source is on Ulrike stealing letters." "Done!"
Man. :D :D :D
but also, regarding the "clarification on her way of thinking" bit, I'm wondering if they'd talked and speculated about her before, it almost sounds like it
Definitely sounds like it to me.
I mean, I can't be sure, but I'm willing to bet on it, based on a) SD not visiting SDC when she has the chance to, and b) G2 never talking about SDC at all.
Agreed.
Here's the biggest question, though: did or didn't Fritz see parallels between SDC's attempt to run away with her lover and his own?
That is my biggest question!
Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-20 09:06 pm (UTC)Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-20 09:27 pm (UTC)Ahaha, given the icon I've been using around these parts, I'll go with "AU!Holmes". ;)
re: Pöllnitz - I see that wiki credits him with writing a whole book about her! Published in 1732, even though she died in 1726 already. Maybe he got inspired by parallels...
SD not visiting SDC when she has the chance to [...] So I'm going with "SD did not talk about her at all
As I learned today, she did have contact with her, though, secretly through intermediaries. SDC wrote to her and possibly vice versa, and SD even mentioned that fact in her letters to FW:
Two 1715 examples: „My mother tells me that she thought she would burn, her room having caught fire." and "The Duchess of Celle [= SDC's mother] tells me that she wrote a letter to the King of England but has no answer, which is a bad sign that my poor mother will always be locked up."
And after SDC died in 1726, she wrote: „I quite suspected that my mother's death would embarrass my father and if he could hide it, he would be happy to do so. I believe my brother will be touched anyway, he loved her and everything that is happening can't please him. I flatter myself however, that my father will mourn and my brother will wear mourning, as it should be, and that there will be no quarrels, which would really upset me." Which is quite a remarkable thing to say! Apparently they even mourned her officially in Berlin, which didn't please GI at all, but I'm not sure how reliable that information is, because I couldn't find a source.
The letter quotes are via Droysen (page in question here) from the royal archive. So maybe she did talk about her after all? I guess not visiting her might have been a result of SD's eagerness to secure the English double marriage, i.e. not wanting to upset her father. Unsourced information says that she even promised her mother to plead her case as soon as the marriages were through, but again, really not sure if that information is reliable or speculation.
By the way, I had no idea that GI visited Berlin in 1725!
More SD Letters
Date: 2021-02-20 09:30 pm (UTC)This one to FW, also from 1715, made me laugh: I am beginning to believe that Milord Bolinbroke was right when he wrote to Milord Strafford that your Soldiers were your mistresses, because since you saw them again, you no longer think of me. I believe, however, that my thirty thousand rivals could well give me an hour a day, because you will not find in these thirty thousand as much tenderness as you find in that of your faithful Fique. (Fique apparently what she called herself/he called her? And he got nicknamed "Wilke", in case you didn't/needed to know.)
The rest of them are much less of a laughing matter, though, what with FW's rudeness and suspicions of infidelity, culminating in him apparently repeatedly mentioning/threatening divorce.
And then there's all the Fritz and sibling related stuff. This one for example broke my heart for him all over again, from 1728, SD to FW: „You can be assured that I will not say anything and will not tell him that you wrote to me; if he knew that you hate him and wish him death, he would be in despair and it would kill him. He is already too ill. God take the thoughts you have against him, and you govern your heart. I believe you wrote to me against him out of malice, to see what I will answer you."
Plus, Droysen collects and reproduces almost every mention of the kids in her letters to FW during their childhood years (up until 1725), mostly Fritz and Wilhelmine, occasionally Friederike, very occasionally Charlotte and little Wilhelm, who died after two years. All of these are only a couple sentences each and a mix of cute, mundane, and heartbreaking, obviously tailored for FW and quite revealing that way. I'd encountered some of the facts before - that Wilhelmine, age five, got beaten for accidentally scratching her little brother for example :( - but reading all of these in row over the years is quite fascinating. See: the repeated mentions of Fritz trying to prove that he totally isn't a coward anymore, starting when he is four whole years old. Sigh.
Re: More SD Letters
Date: 2021-02-21 12:24 am (UTC)I am beginning to believe that Milord Bolinbroke was right when he wrote to Milord Strafford that your Soldiers were your mistresses, because since you saw them again, you no longer think of me.
Ha, that made me laugh too!
I believe, however, that my thirty thousand rivals could well give me an hour a day, because you will not find in these thirty thousand as much tenderness as you find in that of your faithful Fique.
That's... rather sweet. And awful too, given what you say about the rest of the letters :( (I feel like "FW's suspicions of infidelity" is one of those things that probably got said repeatedly here and of course sounds like him, but I'd forgotten about that particular bit of awfulness. FW >:( )
You can be assured that I will not say anything and will not tell him that you wrote to me; if he knew that you hate him and wish him death, he would be in despair and it would kill him.
OMG! FW!
See: the repeated mentions of Fritz trying to prove that he totally isn't a coward anymore, starting when he is four whole years old.
Wow! Poor Fritz :(((((
Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-21 12:17 am (UTC)I believe my brother will be touched anyway, he loved her and everything that is happening can't please him.
IDK, this just seems like a really sad thing to say. Poor SDC :(
Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-21 12:13 am (UTC)Re: Stolen SDC Love Letters (or: Ulrike, Letter-Stealer in Chief)
Date: 2021-02-21 12:18 am (UTC)Run this through Google translate; I don't have time atm.
Der Kurfürst hieß ihnen Don Diego, dessen Mätresse Platen dazu passend «die dicke Dondons, Sophie Dorotheas Vater «der Mürrischen, ihre Mutter «der Pädagoge» und sie selbst wahlweise «das kleine Schielauge», «das linke Herz» oder eben, vielleicht nach ihrem welfischen Löwenwappen, «Leonissa»; Königsmarck war natürlich der Ritter». Irgendwann reichte das jedoch nicht mehr, und so entwickelten die Liebenden nach einem etwas naiven Versuch, Klarnamen durch immer dieselbe vor- und nachgesetzte Silbe zu verschleiern (illyHannoverilly), schließlich ein bis heute nur in Teilen entschlüsseltes Nummernsystem, in dem 301 für das Jagdschloss Linsburg stand.