cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 21

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From:

felis

Fritz uses "petit-maitre" for "fop". Which stood out to me because that's what FW keeps calling him in his rants

Oh, nice, I totally missed that connection! Interesting.

As for contraband, perhaps due to the war situation the tobacco import had gotten tricky?

Possibly, yeah. Spain was on the opposite side, too, if I remember correctly.

Talking about his gifts, I'm also rather curious what the "rare local fruit" was that had to be cooked on coals...

What strikes me about the letter other than its frat boy tone (see, AW wasn't the only one in the family!) is that Fritz uses the Du address.

Right! I already noticed this last time and forgot to comment on it. But also: shouldn't von der Groeben, as a noble, know French? And if he did, it would be rather interesting that Fritz was still writing in German - possibly because their relationship is so closely army related?

re: Hurenpack - thank you for the collection of other instances where Fritz uses the word, that's good context. I wasn't quite sure how he meant it, so I didn't mention it. (I mean, I even know the compound word as a current day insult for a group of people regardless of gender and/or profession, but I have no idea if that particular use was a thing in the 18th century. If so, and given that he asks if they are "in good harmony", he might even be referring to the rest of their group who stayed behind?)

From:

selenak

Petit-maitre: I just remembered another prominent use of the term, and that's good old Voltaire managing to tick off his friend Lord Hervey with the dedication of Voltaire's tragedy, Zaire, to an English merchant named Edward Falkener. To quote Hervey's biographer Halsband:

In France it was regarded as scandalous because it was addressed not only to a commoner but to a foreign one at that. Hervey told Henry Fox that he thought it "bad, false, & impertinent ... by a superficial Frenchman to an Englishman, & the Dedicator pretends to be better acquainted with our Country, our Manners, our Laws, & even our Language than the Dedicatee'.

What could have aroused such a violent opinion ? In the dedicatory epistle, after praising the high rank and regard the mercantile class enjoyed in England, Voltaire continues : 'I know very well that this profession is despised by our petits-maîtres ; but you also know that our petits -maîtres and yours are the most ridiculous species that proudly crawl on the face of the earth'. This, rather than the general remarks about French and English theatre, could have been offensive to one who was certainly closer to being a petit-maître than a man of commerce.

So "petit-maitre" is definitely as derogatory as "Stutzer" is in German and "fop" in English, not just when FW says it.

rare local fruit: any chance it might have been a potato? He did famously introduce them to Prussia later. :)

But also: shouldn't von der Groeben, as a noble, know French?

He should. Now granted, your avarage Prussian noble family isn't able to afford the sheer number of French native speakers to raise their kids the way the Royal household did, and thus he's likely to have it learned later than Fritz & Co. Also, there's a great bandwidth of just how fluent a noble could be in French, even discounting sons of the Old Dessauer. Remember, when EC and Louise talked to each other or their mother, their default language was German, as Lehndorff notes more than once, and EC's French was deemed sufficiently imperfect when she first arrived in Brandenburg for her to take extra lessons to please her husband. Augusta von Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Fritz of Wales' wife, also supposedly wasn't very good at French when first arriving in England. (Though the source for this is Hervey, who never loses an opportunity for a good diss.) So I'm guessing that while Gröben could read, write and talk French if he had to, presumably he wasn't as comfortable or fluent in it as the Hohenzollern and their usual social circle, and Fritz cared enough to indulge him by writing German.

And if he did, it would be rather interesting that Fritz was still writing in German - possibly because their relationship is so closely army related?

That, too, and chances are "Hurenpack" in this context means the rest of the regiment back home in Ruppin. There's another possibility, too; since Fritz is with the army when writing this, and his father is paranoid again,FW might have decided to have his mail read once more. Swearing not withstanding or even especially with the swearing, this letter sounds exactly like the kind of friendship FW would want Fritz to have. It's in German, not French, not a single work of literature or music is mentioned, the desire to see some military action is suitable, too, and the general tone is manly men enjoying manly things. (Note that Fritz doesn't mention having sex of either variety himself at all, so the one manly thing which could bring FW's ire is not there.)

From:

felis

any chance it might have been a potato?

It did cross my mind! Depends on how much he knew about potatoes at that point I guess, given that he calls it a "local fruit" and doesn't seem to have a name for it. That he introduced it seems to be more legend than fact, later efforts to popularize its cultivation notwithstanding. Wiki tells me that one of the first places where potatoes were grown in the 17th century was in Bavaria, and also that Fritz' great-grandfather already grew potatoes as ornamental plants in Berlin. Which doesn't mean Fritz encountered them later of course, or that he would make the connection between plant and "fruit" at that point.

since Fritz is with the army when writing this, and his father is paranoid again, FW might have decided to have his mail read once more

I initially tought it unlikely because he writes very openly to Wilhelmine during that time, but thinking about it, he probably had a much safer way to send letters to her than back to Berlin (he even mentions her messengers in his letters). The other reason was indeed all the swearing, which was one of the things FW named as something to prevent in his 1718 instructions, although compared to other things it seems low on the list on offenses.