Frederick the Great discussion post 15

[cahn]

...I have nothing clever to say here, just really pleased this is still going :)
rheinsberg

Comments

Re: Ch 11-13

[cahn]

there was some level on which he respected Fritz in a way he didn't respect FW2.

Yeah, I absolutely buy this. Of course, I think the converse was true, too: Fritz may have felt the absolute need to dominate him, but he also respected Heinrich in a way that FW2 didn't. And those two things (Heinrich/FW2, FW2/Heinrich) fed off each other.

So either Ziebura's bowdlerizing, or MacDonogh's misquoting.

I feel like from the general tone of everything Heinrich says in his obelisk speeches (declamatory, with the "fuck you" as an extremely strong subtext but never quite getting entirely explicit) it's definitely MacDonogh misquoting, unless Donnersmarck is adding a whole lot of editorial.

Re: Ch 11-13

[mildred_of_midgard]

And the answer is...we were all wrong! The quote from letter as reproduced by Donnersmarck and published in the bowdlerizing 19th century (1877):

tous les noms que j'ai pu parler et dont le grand Fédéric dans ses . . . . . . . . . mémoires ne dit pas le mot.

MacDonogh beats Ziebura for accurate quoting! You may now pick your jaws up off the floor. :P

I have to say, I did immediately doubt that a public speech would be given in the same register as a private letter, but I still trusted Ziebura over MacDonogh. Not the first time I've had to apologize to MacDonogh the Unreliable But Not Always.

Re: Ch 11-13

[cahn]

Lolololol! I am surprised :P Oh, OK, I somehow missed it was a private letter. That makes a little more sense :)

Re: Ch 11-13

[mildred_of_midgard]

Tell us how you really feel, Heinrich. :P

Re: Ch 11-13

[mildred_of_midgard]

To your first point, I tentatively agree with Ziebura that part of it was that Fritz knew he *could* dominate Heinrich, while FW2 feared being overshadowed. It's the old "As hire As, Bs hire Cs" principle.

Which is why you can see Fritz playing the control games where he makes Heinrich wait and sweat and drop hints before finally letting him have what he wants, just to assuage his own "power is a zero sum game" insecurities before letting Heinrich have a free rein with the military or diplomacy. As hire As, but abused and abusive As play mind games first.