cahn | Frederick the Great discussion post 15

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cahn

...I have nothing clever to say here, just really pleased this is still going :)

rheinsberg

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From:

mildred_of_midgard

Heinrich was buffered a lot by having a lot of older siblings. Who, we know, took a lot of FW's abuse

Yeah, though as

selenak points out, we don't know how much, just because there's so little data. And we know all the kids got abused and Heinrich specifically, so just because Dad wasn't locked in a fight to the death to break his will, doesn't mean he escaped the traumatic effects of abuse. The fact that one person's abuse was worse, or differently bad, doesn't meant your own abuse wasn't damaging.

But the fact that Heinrich was ignored by the envoys and the fact that FW referred to him and Ferdinand as "the princes" means FW was ignoring him to a certain degree, which means he likely escaped some of the worst, unless he had a particularly bad caretaker, like Wilhelmine and Letti.

That is really interesting about AW! I can totally buy FW drawing the "Heinrich hero-worships AW, ergo Heinrich is a chip off the old block too" conclusion. I mean, from the guy who draws "not into women, ergo a good supervisor of my sons' sex lives" kind of conclusions.

Small kids, toddlers and even earlier, can sometimes highly disapprove of babies if they perceive that the baby is taking attention away from them (which is, of course, usually true)...But when kids get a little older, like 4 or 5, girls especially will tend to be see babies as cute rather than primarily rivals for adults' attention.

Agreed. I seem to recall even Saint Augustine pointing out that babies, even before they have language, hate--i.e. throw tantrums clearly targeted at--younger siblings when they see Mom nursing their new rival. The context being original sin.

Wilhelmine was 2.5 years old when Fritz was born. Which is pretty good for not hating on the kid.

ETA: Oh, speaking of Wilhelmine and ages, one thing I noticed while helping construct her daughter's AO3 tag is that little Sophie was born August 30, 1732. Wilhelmine got married November 20, 1731. Do the math.

Between her and SD, I can see Fritz going, "Well, EC didn't get pregnant the first two times, must be barren! No point in trying again, clearly. Thanks for producing all the spares, Mom."

Edited Date: 2020-05-21 06:33 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

Yep, me too. Mind you, Fritz, also, no sooner than his brother is married: "AW! Go forth and multiply! No, one son isn't enough, and two aren't, either! Why haven't you multiplied more already, think Mom and Dad, that's the standard to reach!" This despite the fact AW and Louise produced future FW2 fairly quickly, and Heinrich & Ferdinand were alive and well.

Wilhelmine was 2.5 years old when Fritz was born. Which is pretty good for not hating on the kid.

Just to be absolutely precise, the relevant letter from Grandpa F1 which Wilhelmine's biographer Oster quotes is dated February 8th, 1712. Fritz had been born on January 24th that same year. The two dead brothers: Friedrich Ludwig, born November 23rd 1707, and Friedrich Wilhelm, August 16 1710. (Wilhelmine herself had arrived in between, 3rd July 1709.) Little FW the uncounted died not even a year later, July 31st 1711, so by the time Fritz was born, Wilhelmine had been a single child for half a year. Grandpa F1 writes: "Here our children are still all well, especially the Prince of Prussia (…), and it is to marvel at that the Princess does love him so much, for she could not like her first two brothers."

And while we're talking SD in a letter to her husband from September 1709, when Wilhelmine is barely two months old, and SD is visiting the Family in Hannover: "Little Fritz keeps asking me for news about his bride."

Yes, that's Fritz of Wales she's talking about. Though not yet, Queen Anne (Stuart) is still alive, which means none of the Hannover crowd is allowed to set foot on British soil yet. Thinking about this made me realise that SD never, ever, saw the country she grew so obsessed with. When she married FW, she was the daughter of the Prince Elector of Hannover, not yet the King of England.

One thing Heinrich was definitely spared was Mom obsessing about marrying him to someone as soon as he was born.

Edited Date: 2020-05-21 09:18 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

I can totally buy FW drawing the "Heinrich hero-worships AW, ergo Heinrich is a chip off the old block too" conclusion. I mean, from the guy who draws "not into women, ergo a good supervisor of my sons' sex lives" kind of conclusions.

HAHAHAHAHA true! Perceptive this guy wasn't.

ETA: Oh, speaking of Wilhelmine and ages, one thing I noticed while helping construct her daughter's AO3 tag is that little Sophie was born August 30, 1732. Wilhelmine got married November 20, 1731. Do the math.

Between her and SD, I can see Fritz going, "Well, EC didn't get pregnant the first two times, must be barren! No point in trying again, clearly. Thanks for producing all the spares, Mom."

LOL! Yup, that's always been my headcanon, that he did try, but... maybe only like twice so he could say he had. (And, uh, judging from the number (2, anyway) of male royalty around here who seem to have had trouble with the basic mechanics, maybe he didn't try all that hard either.)