Frederick the Great, discussion post 14
Apr. 7th, 2020 09:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahnCheck out the opera clips at Rheinsberg!
(both the real-life place, whichselenak found out hosts a festival for young opera singers! and the community ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
rheinsberg)
Also! our fandom has been producing lovely fic at a rapid clip (okay, well,selenak has):
Sibling dysfunction: Promises to Keep and My Brother Narcissus
Sibling dysfunction PLUS sibling M/M love triangle: The moon flies face to face with me
VOLTAIRE! Between the hour and the age
(both the real-life place, which
selenak found out hosts a festival for young opera singers! and the community rheinsberg)Also! our fandom has been producing lovely fic at a rapid clip (okay, well,
selenak has):Sibling dysfunction: Promises to Keep and My Brother Narcissus
Sibling dysfunction PLUS sibling M/M love triangle: The moon flies face to face with me
VOLTAIRE! Between the hour and the age
Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-15 05:17 am (UTC)A couple more I thought of today!
OK,
Alla corona che m'offre il fato...
In English, not a great translation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZm7JeAL11g
Met with subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB_Sz0wMVpk
My favorite singing actor, Thomas Hampson, and I like the staging of Banquo and Macbeth, but omg a completely wacko production, and no subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRasdFLPnyM
I also thought maybe Bartolo's aria for Fritz :D (Though I don't see him as a bass at all!) With Figaro, of course, replaced by MT :)
With subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va6EVm5dZfc
Concert version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHjL7AlQiS8 - I include this one because it's got a younger singer, and I kind of imagine Fritz singing this while he's trying to find a justification for Silesia:
"If I have to search the whole legal code,
If I have to read through the whole statute book,
With a quibble or a paraphrase
I'll find some obstacle!"
ETA: I do like this one for Fritz/Wilhelmine, although it is definitely pointing out my feelings about how this was ~almost~ scandalous: Clemenza di Tito, "Ah! perdona al primo affetto"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6grCU6-o6WQ
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-15 08:32 am (UTC)Fritz/Wilhelmine: aw. Also ha: I'm constantly struggling against the temptation to go for the most famous brother/sister duet in opera history, but that's definitely the AU where Fritz is at the very least bi and both have a strong sex drive. Mildred, I am referring to Siegmund and Sieglinde from Wagner's the Valkyrie. (Context: they're brother and sister, twins, in fact, but were separated as children. They meet again as adults, with Sieglinde trapped in a marriage not of her choosing with a man who has vowed to kill Siegmund the next morning. In this scene, they declare their love, recognize each other as brother and sister and declare their love some more.
On a non-scandalous note, for Fritz and Wilhelmine as children, Brüderlein komm tanz mit mir (from Humperdinck's Hänsel und Gretel? (With English subtitles.)
Also, of Wilhelmine's own compositions, I think this concerto would work as an introduction/overture to the saga.
For the start of the Silesian Wars in Prussia, I offer Guerra! from Aida.
Counterpoint as MT characterisation: overture from Maria Antonia's Talestris, Queen of the Amazons opera, here. Alternatively: this aria from Händel's Agrippina, though we can also use that for MT at the start of the 7 Years War if you don't want Der Hölle Rache.
I've found a good duet for Fritz/Fredersdorf, but it's sung by a man and a woman:
Du repos voici l'heure from Gounoud's Philemon et Baucis
And lastly, again I know we probably won't use it in the final result, but, Lehndorff to Heinrich:
Dein ist mein ganzes Herzes (from Franz Lehar's Das Land des Lächelns.
Also something for the divine trio (mainly AW and Heinrich, with a bit of Ferdinand) in the early 1750s: Jaij maman Bruderherz ich kauf mir die Welt
In terms of using actual Fritz-related music, I'm eyeing these two parts of Bach's Musikalisches Opfer (aka the piece he composed based on a theme Fritz gave him as a challenge, the event which forms the basis of Mein Name ist Bach:
Thema Regium und Ricercar or BWv 1079 .
The second one uses a flute, so we could use this to stand in for, well, "Flute Concert at Sanssouci/ Fritz as musician and patron", but the first one has the theme in its purest form and could work for "lonely at the top Fritz in his later years".
ETA: and how could I forget? The perfect Fritz/Silesia song. (To spoil the surprise, it's good old Meyerbeer's anthem for Vasco da Gama singing about how he just loooooves to take this paradisical country for the glory of his own (and his own glory).)
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-18 05:25 am (UTC)I like these! The Hansel and Gretel (which I wasn't familiar with) is very sweet :) Aida and Dein ist mein ganzes Herzes are lovely :D The Gounoud is also very nice! I don't mind it's sung by a man and woman :)
I really like the Agrippina for MT! (I don't know much Handel opera -- only Guilio Cesare really -- and every time I hear something from one I'm like, I should know more Handel opera!)
The Jaij maman Bruderherz is hilarious!
I like Wilhelmine's concerto and the Bach is great (...like Handel, only even more so, I really love everything I ever hear by Bach) and yes absolutely we should put this in :D Also I love that the background on the second Bach link is that painting of Fritz, which I would NEVER have gotten before your rheinsberg post :D
And yessss, that is the perfect Fritz/Silesia song :D
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-19 08:03 am (UTC)I think we now have enough to make a preliminary list and exclude what we don't want. Your judgment is called for! I can't do the neat graphics like Mildred, so:
Introduction - Wilhelmine's concerto
Wilhelmine and Fritz: "Brüderlein komm tanz mit mir" from Hänsel and Gretel
From childhood to adolescence with FW as dad: In the Hall of the Mountain King
Fritz/Katte: Don Carlos
FW in 1730: Oh wie will ich triumphieren! (Mozart, Entführung)
Fritz and the rising attraction of power (also Fritz and Eugene): Macbeth and Banquo duet from "Macbeth"
1740! Several:
Fritz/Silesia: Vasco da Gama's "Oh paradis!"
Ensemble/Prussians: "Guerra!" (from Aida)
MT: Leonore's aria from "Fidelio"
Peacetime/Fritz as patron and musician: BWv 1079 from Bach's "Das Musikalische Opfer"
(Optional, just that it amuses me: it did occur to me that Fritz putting Heinrich in the military and being on his case in the 1740s offers a great opportunity for Figaro's "Non piu andrai, farfallone amoroso" to Cherubino.)
Fritz/Fredersdorf: Du repos voici L'heure
The Divine Trio: Jaj Maman Bruderherz
Reconciled Fritz and Wilhelmine: "Ah! Perdona al primo Affeto!"
(BTW: for their argument, the Amonasro/Aida duet from "Aida" would be perfect - it has all the right emotional beats, from first harmony, then argument, then he explodes, then she submits and they're reconciled again, plus it's a fantastic baritone/soprano combination - but there's too much "padre" and "mi figlia" in it, lyrics-wise, and of course the rest of the lyrics don't fit at all, either, other than him accusing her of betraying him and the country mid argument.)
Voltaire/Fritz implosion: "Se vuol ballare signor contino", from Figaro
7 Years War:
MT: Agrippina aria
Fritz: Jago's Credo from "Othello"
The War: Dance of the Knights by Prokoviev
(Optional: this aria sung by Ezio from Verdi's "Attila" for Heinrich in the war.)
Fritz, the later years: Vesti la guiabba from "Pagliaci"
Fritz, grieving his dead: Solveig's Song, instrumental version or Solveig's Song, sung version by Edvard Crieg.
Conclusion and death: Bach, Thema Regium.
What do you think?
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-19 07:33 pm (UTC)Yay, I unexpectedly have something to contribute! Let me know when the final playlist is ready to go up on
I'm a database administrator; I organize data into tables. It's what I do. Fritz versified compulsively, and I put data in tables!
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 08:22 am (UTC)Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 05:54 pm (UTC)I will format the list and post it. :)
One leeeetle question, feel free to say no, but...I see we have a Wilhelmine composition (yay), but I don't see a Fritz composition. I know his aren't highly thought of, but especially for visitors to
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 07:58 pm (UTC)Now, about those pieces by Fritz which are on YouTube: there are only two suitable ones in terms of sheer lenght, because the others are all 12 or 14 minutes minimum. Now, the shorter pieces are these:
https://youtu.be/qxAhrXosXp4
The Allegro from Flute Concerto in C Major . This is the most famous piece, actually - not least because it‘s a showcase for flutists - and if anyone knows anything by Fritz, it‘s this one. It‘s used on the audiobook of his and Wilhelmine‘s correspondance, for example. The reason why I didn‘t pick it or the next one, a bit from the Symphony in D:
https://youtu.be/GjNesTvOz84 Symphony in D
Is that they‘re both way too cheerful. Wilhelmine‘s bit is also celebratory but has some darker strains in it. The relentless cheeriness of both is also why we couldn‘t place one of them elsewhere in the list in addition to what we already have. Like I said, it could only otherwise replace the first Bach to show Fritz as musician and patron, and JBS trumps FvH here.
Bascially: we can start off the classical playlist with Fritz‘ flute showcase, but then Wilhelmine‘s bit has to go. I‘m good with that, if you want, and Fritz is of course the main character here. Cahn? Your opinion?
BTW, the comments under the various vids are mostly from modern (P)Russian Pete‘s. One in one of the longer ones calls Fritz a role model in almost every aspect of life. Really.
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 08:20 pm (UTC)Though I like the idea of including both the siblings and would hate to lose Wilhelmine. Why can't we showcase both the siblings as composers? Or have Fritz as a bonus track at the end? I almost did that with the rap battle, put a "Hey, this doesn't really fit with the rest, but it's obligatory because it's about Fritz?" entry outside the table under "Bonus: [Explicitly Fritz piece that doesn't fit goes here]." We could have a "Btw, Fritz composed too, here's a sample" bonus track outside the main playlist.
Thoughts?
BTW, the comments under the various vids are mostly from modern (P)Russian Pete‘s. One in one of the longer ones calls Fritz a role model in almost every aspect of life. Really.
Remember when Fritz said the Russian soldiers were reading his poetry, and he commented wryly that it was probably only in Russia that he was taken for a good French poet? The only people listening to his music on YouTube are the people who are there for Fritz the Role Model, not for the music. Otherwise they'd be listening to Bach. :P
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 08:35 pm (UTC)Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 09:40 pm (UTC)Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 07:44 pm (UTC)ETA: Ugh, we're too deep in this thread; it's forcing a horizontal scroll. Reposting elsewhere.
Son of ETA: Table deleted and reposted here.
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 05:04 am (UTC)(Optional, just that it amuses me: it did occur to me that Fritz putting Heinrich in the military and being on his case in the 1740s offers a great opportunity for Figaro's "Non piu andrai, farfallone amoroso" to Cherubino.)
LOLOLOLOLOL that very much amuses me too :D
The Attila/Pagliacci/Solveig's Song are awesome too <3
I think we have a winning playlist here!
Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 05:07 am (UTC)Re: Playlists - Opera
Date: 2020-04-20 05:18 am (UTC)(I forgot to say, I also love about that link how she walks in after they've started playing, and some of the musicians are staring at her --sort of heightenes the mood.)
Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-20 06:34 pm (UTC)Just to clarify the chronology, Eugene died in 1736, which is why in the Polish Partitions write-up I did, it's the ghost of Eugene saying "I told you so!" about the Silesian invasion. But as
Eugene: I may be senile in other respects, but I can spot trouble in the form of a future Prussian monarch a mile away. Something that I'd point out none of the supposedly compos mentis people around me can do.
Also Eugene: I tried being nice to him and winning him over to the Austrian side, but by 1735, it was too late.
Fritz: Thanks for the tips on generalship, Eugene!
Future MT: GRRRRR.
Speaking of Eugene! I have recently discovered that his mother was implicated in the Affair of the Poisons, this huuuuge French murder/witchcraft scandal that got dozens of people executed and even dragged Madame de Montespan, Louis XIV's mistress, into suspicion.
Eugene's mother may or may not have been Louis XIV's mistress, but was accused of poisoning and attempted poisoning and threatened poisoning to get him to sleep with her. Eventually, she was kicked out of France. Afterward, Eugene realized he had no hope of decent job prospects in France, because of his mother's reputation. So he decided to go work for the most bitter enemies of France, the Austrian Habsburgs. And the rest is history. (In which Eugene becomes one of the great generals of the age and wins victories against the French.)
Btw, this makes it ironic that Eugene's actual (or at least, cited in biographies) quote about his failed attempts to win Fritz over (remember, FW didn't want to let him hang out with Eugene too much), was, "The French poison has gone too deep."
Fritz: Don't worry, Eugene, the French aren't going to be happy with me when this is all over, either!
Re: Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-21 09:48 am (UTC)*looks up his mother* ZOMG, his mother was the oldest of the Mancini girls! (I.e. the nieces of Cardinal Mazarin, Cahn, the second of the two important Cardinals/Prime Ministers of French history.) I hadn't made the connection, but she shows up as a minor character in one of my early favourite historical novel series, the Angelique novels by Anne Golon. Olympe (Eugene' smother) was the oldest and the first of the Mancinis who (probably) had sex with young Louis,though it was her younger sister Marie Mancini who counts as Louis' first real love. Louis/Marie Mancini was serious enough that gossip had it he might be toying with the idea of marrying her, but Cardinal Mazarin, who had a sensible balance between "furthering my and my family's insterests" and "furthering French interests", and no illusions about the fact the nation hated and resented him anyway for being an influential foreigner, came down on that idea like hawk and pushed young Louis into marrying his Spanish cousin Maria Theresa (yes, another one) instead. (Since it was the offspring of that marriage that much later offered older Louis XIV the pretense to claim Spain for the Bourbons after the direct Spanish Habsburg line had died out, this was fateful for European history.) In the Angelique novels, Olympe Mancini is a sex-mad schemer without the brains that Louis' main mistress and enemy of our heroine Angelique, Athenais de Montespanm (also implicated in the Affair of the Poisons later), has, and she does feel resentful over having lost Louis first to her younger sister and then everyone else, and wants to regain that briefly held position, but she doesn't have the imagination to do much about it other than ask La Voisin for love potions.
The third Mancini sister to score with royalty was Hortense Mancini, who had a fling with Louis' cousin, Charles II (still in exile at that point), and many years later a more serious affair with one of Charles' illegitimate daughters. Just to make the story complete, there was also a Mancini brother who supposedly was the one to deflower Louis' younger brother Philippe d'Orleans. (Louis himself lost his virginity not to either of the Mancini girls but to a trusted lady-in-waiting of his mother's, who'd been sent for him for just that purpose, Anne of Austria wanting to make sure it wouldn't be someone who could possibly gain influence over Louis that way.) Basically, the Mancini: family collectors of the previous century.
BTW, in volume IV. of Lehndorff's diaries, when he notes the books he's reading while travelling, at one point he reads a "Life of Prince Eugene", and I started to hopelessly snigger. This is all the fault of Fritz and Suhm!
This is a version of the folk song about Eugene with English subtitles. And godawful comments by right-wing jerks, so don't read those.
Re: Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-22 01:32 am (UTC)Basically, the Mancini: family collectors of the previous century.
Yeah, they definitely set a high standard there, lol.
at one point he reads a "Life of Prince Eugene", and I started to hopelessly snigger. This is all the fault of Fritz and Suhm!
AHAHAHAHA, see, now I am hopelessly sniggering as well. :P
I didn't know about the folk song, thank you! YouTube algorithms then pointed me to Der Hohenfriedberger, about the Prussian victory in 1745 over the Austrians. It's considered one of Fritz's better victories, after Leuthen.
Re: Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-24 07:41 am (UTC)You know, I just made a connection. Eugene dies in 1736. Fritz and Suhm start their "book" loans in 1737. I wonder if the Life (or multiple such lives) was a bestseller in the late 1730s, like the sudden burst of anecdotes published about Fritz in 1786-1790. Not that Eugene was as *much* of a celebrity as Old Fritz, but on a smaller scale, maybe the timing is relevant.
Re: Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-25 09:09 am (UTC)Fritz: Also, I had already asked Voltaire for personally signed copies of all his works so far in 1736. Including the Pucelle. Which I didn't get. Freaking Émilie!
Re: Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-24 12:36 pm (UTC)Basically, the Mancini: family collectors of the previous century.
HAHAHAHAHA
at one point he reads a "Life of Prince Eugene", and I started to hopelessly snigger. This is all the fault of Fritz and Suhm!
HEE :P
Re: Prince Eugene
Date: 2020-04-22 05:13 am (UTC)