1.) Plausible reason for Rothenbourg being recalled from Madrid other than ill health so he can be in the Alsace with Fritz while Fritz' presence is still kept a secret: Austrians (and Lorraine!) to the rescue!
I like it! I've also found another source saying that Rothenburg was sent *back* to Spain in late 1730 and arrived in early 1731. Supposedly after leaving in 1728. Now, if Kloosterhuis and his sources can be trusted, Katte was visiting Rothenburg in Madrid in early 1729. So either my other source is unreliable, or we don't need an AU to have him be in France in mid 1730. But I do still need an explanation, since Katte's expecting him to be in Madrid, and when he gets to Madrid, no one knows for sure why Rothenburg left, or whether he's even in France or not. So I can use your Lorraine idea. (You will get lots of credit in any author's notes, if this ever goes live. <3)
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back.
Yeah, I've been struggling with this too. That said, I have been assuming that with Fritz lying low, there are rumors of his death, and he might overtly fake it (with French help) in order to protect his mother and Wilhelmine from further repercussions. Thus leading FW to marry off Wilhelmine. Wilhelmine, believing her brother dead because he couldn't possibly be silent for that long (she has a point--I'm going to show that it's a huge struggle and goes against his nature, and is a sign of his love for her), must be sooo depressed. I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Nice! I was wondering if it was plausible at all for FW to let her get married in Bayreuth, so she could disappear en route, and I was hoping you would say it was. Wonderful!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
OMG, you're the best! I love this. Let's do it.
You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times?
So, every time I try to write Crown Prince Fritz, I run up against a total mental block against writing Keyserlingk--but! I have an idea for something even more plausible that I *could* write.
In real life, when FW was punishing everyone in sight, who actually was banished (to East Prussia)? Fritz's tutor Duhan, who had helped him put together that huge secret library and taught him many illicit things. And Fritz couldn't get him recalled until he became king, so he was never one of the Rheinsberg crowd. Instead, Fritz used his pull as Crown Prince to get Duhan some income in exile from a third party, and wrote him letters promising better things once he was on the throne.
So Duhan can hightail it out of Prussia. Maybe get a job tutoring some family member of Rothenburg in Alsace (arranged by Rothenburg), and visit Fritz secretly. He's in practice giving Fritz secret education, after all!
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too.
The plan has been not to let Wilhelmine and Sonsine get separated, ever. This is meant to be a fix-it fic! And with Wilhelmine thinking, however briefly, that her brother is dead, she's going to need major comforting.
Hmm, maybe she can find out sooner rather than later, agree to the marriage early on to get her out of Dad's reach, and then arrange her disappearance en route, changing clothes with Frau von Pannewitz (my hero). International rescue conspiracy!
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
This is great, thanks! I think maybe with Lorraine, Duhan, and Frau von Pannewitz, I can do this!
(Okay, now I seriously have to leave the computer. More comments to come!)
I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
*nods*
Yes, that makes sense. Same with:
also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Absolutely, and don't forget, Bayreuth Friedrich's mother was locked up by his Dad for adultery for years and years and until she was allowed to leave for Scandinavian shores (being a born Schleswig-Holstein). He was himself the product of a miserable marriage, and I can well imagine that not only did he have sympathy for Wilhelmine's situation but the one thing he did not want was to be like Dad (and FW) and put a woman in a cage. Incidentally, I'd have to look up the exact dates, but I think he might have been on the Grand Tour and canonically in France in 1730/1731, since his father had to command him back so he could marry Wilhelmine. Said father the old Margrave won't be happy since he's missing out of the dowry that FW of the filled treasure has promised, but a) who cares about him, and b) in rl, FW made Wilhelmine sign a contract that she resigns her claims on her mother's inheritance before he gave her anything. It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
Duhan: a great candidate for keeping Fritz company! He does indeed have practice.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES! Grumbkow: Boss, I'm totally with you, don't get me wrong, but: couldn't we maybe not start a war with France on our own when it's just cheaper to coordinate our efforts with the Emperor?
FW: ???
Grumbkow: Seeing as the war of Polish Succession is approaching and you're going to be called for duty anyway. Just think of it. You can avenge yourself on the perfidious French AND show that you're the best Elector in the HRE at the same time! Also, no trouble with all the other principalities through whose territory we could have to march in order to invade France on our lonesome. Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
FW: BUT THAT WRETCHED BOY AND IS HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND ARE LAUGHING AT ME NOW!!!!!!
Grumbkow: I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that? Trut me, Boss: serve the vengeance on the French just a bit later, and in the meantime, think of how Prussia will finally get the Crown Prince it deserves, while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
FW: ....I still want vengeance NOW, but I suppose the Almighty wills it otherwise. There might be truth in your words. I will postpone my scouring of the Alsace.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
ahahaha!
Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
lololol Grumbkow knows how to get at FW!
I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
HAHAHAHAHA I laughed so hard! You do have a point there, Grumbkow. Who does that? :D
It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
That *is* useful. Historical beta FTW. \o/ Thank you!
if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
*snort*
Fritz: No one in this AU. We're all Ravenclaws here. Me: Fix *all* the things!
while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
Hahaha, well, Grumbkow, you reckon without the author and one major plot point she didn't mention: post-adoption Rothembourg banging his head against teaching Fritz responsible money management without triggering his authority figure PTSD issues, and eventually finding a way. Laugh's on you, Grumbkow and FW! :D
I have to say, I laughed out loud at Grumbkow's "it's just cheaper" argument, and it just got better as he kept developing that theme. "The possible new hirings of tall men!"
THAT WRETCHED BOY AND HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND
HAHAHAHAHA. Idk if I'm going as far as ménage à trois with Wilhelmine (definitely a Fritz/Katte/Keith ménage à trois--Katte and Keith bond on their quest for Fritz), but 1) FW would think so, yup, 2) once the siblings are away from him and his attempts to separate them, I think Wilhelmine might warm up to her brother's boyfriends eventually. Especially with Katte making a concerted effort to get on her good side.
Also, I just have to share one more Google map screenshot with you guys, especially in light of the most recent AO3 fic:
Finally: wonderful use of Fritz/Wilhelmine icon, selenak! <3
(Heinrich: does that mean this is the AU where I end up in Slytherin without Fritz as my warning example? Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
(Heinrich: does that mean this is the AU where I end up in Slytherin without Fritz as my warning example?
Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
Either works for me! Since it's a fix-it-for-everyone fic, maybe the latter. :P He and AW can hang out and be chill together, and he ends up as advisor to his beloved older brother.
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
Ooh, I like it! No kids of teachable age until the latter part of the 1730s, and I don't think she and Voltaire start renovating Cirey until the mid 1730s, but depending on how far in the future this fic goes (and it has to go at least to a Grand Tour in the 1730s), we could end up seeing a visit to or from Cirey. And I have actually been thinking of looking for a more long-term position for Duhan.
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Also, maybe you could have her promising Fritz something like, if he was ever free, she would join him. Or something. Then both he and future Margrave can argue that the earlier promise took precedence! (in my head there is a moving scene between W and Bayreuth Friedrich where she is distraught about breaking her sworn word and BF all nobly says something like, "Then I will break it," and lets her go to be with her first love)
Aww! I may steal that. You have the best scenes. We'll see how the Pannewitz plot develops. It *would* be nice to have BF as nice guy supporting her, definitely. Especially since the average fic reader won't have read W's memoirs--oh, who am I kidding. All two fic readers will have read W's memoirs. :P
I shall accept the gracious gift, then! (Depending on how the final draft plays out, of course, but the current plotline is developing around ways to use it.)
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-28 06:40 am (UTC)I like it! I've also found another source saying that Rothenburg was sent *back* to Spain in late 1730 and arrived in early 1731. Supposedly after leaving in 1728. Now, if Kloosterhuis and his sources can be trusted, Katte was visiting Rothenburg in Madrid in early 1729. So either my other source is unreliable, or we don't need an AU to have him be in France in mid 1730. But I do still need an explanation, since Katte's expecting him to be in Madrid, and when he gets to Madrid, no one knows for sure why Rothenburg left, or whether he's even in France or not. So I can use your Lorraine idea. (You will get lots of credit in any author's notes, if this ever goes live. <3)
2.) Hmmmm, this is really tricky, because I don't think FW would marry her off if he still thinks Fritz is out there and could be blackmailed into coming back.
Yeah, I've been struggling with this too. That said, I have been assuming that with Fritz lying low, there are rumors of his death, and he might overtly fake it (with French help) in order to protect his mother and Wilhelmine from further repercussions. Thus leading FW to marry off Wilhelmine. Wilhelmine, believing her brother dead because he couldn't possibly be silent for that long (she has a point--I'm going to show that it's a huge struggle and goes against his nature, and is a sign of his love for her), must be sooo depressed. I was hoping to leave her Sonsine, and Sonsine talks her into the marriage as a prospect for a brighter future as opposed to nihilism.
Because everything needs to happen quickly, he's willing to let the marriage happen at the groom's place as opposed to letting the groom come to Berlin, as in rl. En route, it's escape time for Wilhelmine.
Nice! I was wondering if it was plausible at all for FW to let her get married in Bayreuth, so she could disappear en route, and I was hoping you would say it was. Wonderful!
ETA: have thought of someone who could switch places and clothing with Wilhelmine in 1731 to allow her escape, demonstrably a courageous person not afraid to go up against FW, and one with a shot of not getting executed for this by FW: Johanna von Pannewitz!
OMG, you're the best! I love this. Let's do it.
You probably don't want to enlarge your cast, but: how about Keyserlingk hightailing it out of Prussia, given that FW will look to throw blame at everyone within reach, and ending up chez R. as well, whom he presumably knowns from old Berlin times?
So, every time I try to write Crown Prince Fritz, I run up against a total mental block against writing Keyserlingk--but! I have an idea for something even more plausible that I *could* write.
In real life, when FW was punishing everyone in sight, who actually was banished (to East Prussia)? Fritz's tutor Duhan, who had helped him put together that huge secret library and taught him many illicit things. And Fritz couldn't get him recalled until he became king, so he was never one of the Rheinsberg crowd. Instead, Fritz used his pull as Crown Prince to get Duhan some income in exile from a third party, and wrote him letters promising better things once he was on the throne.
So Duhan can hightail it out of Prussia. Maybe get a job tutoring some family member of Rothenburg in Alsace (arranged by Rothenburg), and visit Fritz secretly. He's in practice giving Fritz secret education, after all!
Oh, and Sonsine better leaves pronto, too.
The plan has been not to let Wilhelmine and Sonsine get separated, ever. This is meant to be a fix-it fic! And with Wilhelmine thinking, however briefly, that her brother is dead, she's going to need major comforting.
Hmm, maybe she can find out sooner rather than later, agree to the marriage early on to get her out of Dad's reach, and then arrange her disappearance en route, changing clothes with Frau von Pannewitz (my hero). International rescue conspiracy!
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
Unresolved thread: the aborted marriage. Judging by Wilhelmine's memoirs, she didn't want to break her sworn word to the future Margrave, *but*, she also didn't have a very good reason to do so (like "I can join not-dead-after-all Fritz in exile!"), and also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
This is great, thanks! I think maybe with Lorraine, Duhan, and Frau von Pannewitz, I can do this!
(Okay, now I seriously have to leave the computer. More comments to come!)
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-28 02:02 pm (UTC)*nods*
Yes, that makes sense. Same with:
also, her fiancé seemed willing to let her off the hook rather than make her unhappy. So I think maybe we're okay there.
Absolutely, and don't forget, Bayreuth Friedrich's mother was locked up by his Dad for adultery for years and years and until she was allowed to leave for Scandinavian shores (being a born Schleswig-Holstein). He was himself the product of a miserable marriage, and I can well imagine that not only did he have sympathy for Wilhelmine's situation but the one thing he did not want was to be like Dad (and FW) and put a woman in a cage. Incidentally, I'd have to look up the exact dates, but I think he might have been on the Grand Tour and canonically in France in 1730/1731, since his father had to command him back so he could marry Wilhelmine. Said father the old Margrave won't be happy since he's missing out of the dowry that FW of the filled treasure has promised, but a) who cares about him, and b) in rl, FW made Wilhelmine sign a contract that she resigns her claims on her mother's inheritance before he gave her anything. It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
Duhan: a great candidate for keeping Fritz company! He does indeed have practice.
Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
Grumbkow: Boss, I'm totally with you, don't get me wrong, but: couldn't we maybe not start a war with France on our own when it's just cheaper to coordinate our efforts with the Emperor?
FW: ???
Grumbkow: Seeing as the war of Polish Succession is approaching and you're going to be called for duty anyway. Just think of it. You can avenge yourself on the perfidious French AND show that you're the best Elector in the HRE at the same time! Also, no trouble with all the other principalities through whose territory we could have to march in order to invade France on our lonesome. Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
FW: BUT THAT WRETCHED BOY AND IS HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND ARE LAUGHING AT ME NOW!!!!!!
Grumbkow: I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that? Trut me, Boss: serve the vengeance on the French just a bit later, and in the meantime, think of how Prussia will finally get the Crown Prince it deserves, while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
FW: ....I still want vengeance NOW, but I suppose the Almighty wills it otherwise. There might be truth in your words. I will postpone my scouring of the Alsace.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-29 05:12 am (UTC)Man, FW is going to be So. Mad. Does he actually invade Alsace? :P
FW: YES!
ahahaha!
Just think of the saved expense! The treasury! The possible new hirings of tall men!
lololol Grumbkow knows how to get at FW!
I hate to bring this up, but they'll laugh even more if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
HAHAHAHAHA I laughed so hard! You do have a point there, Grumbkow. Who does that? :D
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-29 07:54 am (UTC)Wilhelmine: Not me!
It occurs to me that he may not do that in the AU where he's really in a hurry to marry her off, so she would have some claims to Hannover money later (useful!).
That *is* useful. Historical beta FTW. \o/ Thank you!
if we end up fighting a three front war as the result of all that invading while they are safely God knows who. I mean, who does that?
*snort*
Fritz: No one in this AU. We're all Ravenclaws here.
Me: Fix *all* the things!
while undoubtedly the former one will be broke in a matter of months, him and Rothembourg both. I mean, you know how he is. And with his sister and the former Lieutenant encouraging him to spend money? He'll gamble away the Rothembourg estates, mark my words, and you'll have last laugh.
Hahaha, well, Grumbkow, you reckon without the author and one major plot point she didn't mention: post-adoption Rothembourg banging his head against teaching Fritz responsible money management without triggering his authority figure PTSD issues, and eventually finding a way. Laugh's on you, Grumbkow and FW! :D
I have to say, I laughed out loud at Grumbkow's "it's just cheaper" argument, and it just got better as he kept developing that theme. "The possible new hirings of tall men!"
THAT WRETCHED BOY AND HIS SISTER AND THEIR BOYFRIEND
HAHAHAHAHA. Idk if I'm going as far as ménage à trois with Wilhelmine (definitely a Fritz/Katte/Keith ménage à trois--Katte and Keith bond on their quest for Fritz), but 1) FW would think so, yup, 2) once the siblings are away from him and his attempts to separate them, I think Wilhelmine might warm up to her brother's boyfriends eventually. Especially with Katte making a concerted effort to get on her good side.
Also, I just have to share one more Google map screenshot with you guys, especially in light of the most recent AO3 fic:
Finally: wonderful use of Fritz/Wilhelmine icon,
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-29 04:28 pm (UTC)(Heinrich: does that mean this is the AU where I end up in Slytherin without Fritz as my warning example?
Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-30 08:06 am (UTC)Self: Could be. Could also be, otoh, that this is the AU where you hero worship him from afar as the legendary cool older brother who got away! He's your role model (in the non-screwed up sense)!)
Either works for me! Since it's a fix-it-for-everyone fic, maybe the latter. :P He and AW can hang out and be chill together, and he ends up as advisor to his beloved older brother.
And hey, Cirey is way closer than Straßburg. So a cameo is entirely possible. Doesn't Emily have kids Duhan could teach?
Ooh, I like it! No kids of teachable age until the latter part of the 1730s, and I don't think she and Voltaire start renovating Cirey until the mid 1730s, but depending on how far in the future this fic goes (and it has to go at least to a Grand Tour in the 1730s), we could end up seeing a visit to or from Cirey. And I have actually been thinking of looking for a more long-term position for Duhan.
Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-29 05:07 am (UTC)Also, maybe you could have her promising Fritz something like, if he was ever free, she would join him. Or something. Then both he and future Margrave can argue that the earlier promise took precedence! (in my head there is a moving scene between W and Bayreuth Friedrich where she is distraught about breaking her sworn word and BF all nobly says something like, "Then I will break it," and lets her go
to be with her first love)Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-03-29 07:58 am (UTC)Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-04-02 04:08 am (UTC)Re: Count Rothenburg (the French one)
Date: 2020-04-02 07:41 am (UTC)I shall accept the gracious gift, then! (Depending on how the final draft plays out, of course, but the current plotline is developing around ways to use it.)