Frederick the Great discussion post 11

[cahn]

In our last installment, our heroes found that Henri de Catt's memoirs, a major source for current biographers of Frederick the Great, are not to be trusted!!

rheinsberg

Comments

Re: Assistant librarian requests

[mildred_of_midgard]

Thank you, O gracious and generous subdetective!

I got "Die Katten im Stammbaum" from Kloosterhuis, who cites it 10 times and says it was a "Privatdruck" from 1965, and the links were all self published in 1965. I think it's the right one! I don't know what's up with Wilhelmsthaler either (the complete title is "zum 75. Geburtstag des Wilhelmsthalers senioris familiae," if that helps), but I think this is our book.

The memoirs sound like they might be cool too, though, as consolation prizes go. You'll have to let us know. :)

(I told you: deja vue with all those Prussian nobility names, big time...

No kidding!

Re: Assistant librarian requests

[mildred_of_midgard]

Ooh, look who I found: Rudolf Hans von Katte-Wilhelmsthal, born 1890!

I subtracted 75 from 1965 and used 1890 as my search term, and he came up, and then I realized he was a Katte.

And he died in 1970, so he's still around in 1965 to read about his Katte family history. It's him!

ETA: Sigh. No, you're right. It's a Katte family tree of great relevance to our (my? :P) interests, but not the bio that has *all* the info. Curse my limited German. Also, curse Martin for not publishing.

I would still love to see it, though!

And I'm still pleased at figuring out who Wilhelmsthal was. ;)

I have a cunning plan

[mildred_of_midgard]

Okay, so, the fact that there aren't even 4 copies of that Hans Hermann work out there leads me to the only possible conclusion: we need to improve our sleuthing. We need to get on Maria von Katte's good side! Possibly convince her that we are very Serious Business Scholars (TM) for whom Kloosterhuis's frequent references to the manuscript are not adequate for our purposes and we need access to a copy of the whole thing. :P

Now, we could definitely make a case that we have some original research going on around the execution and the documents pertaining to it, and that we're trying to produce something publishable. But I'm not sure that gets us further than her glancing at Kloosterhuis and at her manuscript and telling us, "Nope, everything relevant to the execution made it into Kloosterhuis! You're good."

Whereas I feel like somewhere in that manuscript is *something* about Hans Hermann or his family, not necessarily related to the execution, that we don't already know and would be of great interest to us, we just don't know what it is. And even if Kloosterhuis did include everything, we'll only know that if we see the manuscript!

Ooh! We could say that we're examining the many variants on Hans Hermann's last words to Fritz (which we are!), and for that we need EVERYTHING ever written by or about Hans Hermann as comparanda. :DD

Step 3: Profit!

:PP

Re: I have a cunning plan

[selenak]

:) All the kudos to you for figuring out who was meant by „Wilhelmsthaler“. Re: Maria von Katte, maybe reading her father‘s autobiography will reveal something to me that could provide a good in!

Then again, we could fare life Fritz with his various psychological warfare cunning plans he shares with Mitchell and Mitchell reports home to London. It‘s always along the same basic principle:

1:) The French and the Austrians have hated each other for centuries. How hard can it be to fan up some hostility? Just play on the French egos and tell them they‘re Austrian tools! That always works on French egomaniacs! Profit!

2:) Why don‘t we sow some discontent between the Russians and the Austrians, since my fanboy isn‘t yet on the throne? Just tell them the Austrians are totally exploiting them and their hard work and will ditch them as allies any minute now, as soon as they don‘t need them anymore! Let‘s play to the Russian ego! Profit!

(Mitchell himself has a personal variation when the war is really dire: The French can‘t really want the Habsburgs/Austria as the dominant German power after centuries of feuding, without Prussia providing a counter balance. Surely it couldn‘t hurt reminding them of this, and how HAUGHTY the House of Austria is)

3.) The French and the Russian courts are so utterly corrupt and without honor, we just have to bribe Biron/the Duke de Soubise/the Marquise de Pompadour into liking me again. With British money, of course. Profit!

Somehow, none of these cunning plans ever comes to completion...

Re: I have a cunning plan

[mildred_of_midgard]

Re: Maria von Katte, maybe reading her father‘s autobiography will reveal something to me that could provide a good in!

Ooh, true! Yes, read it with an eye toward becoming her BFF. What could go wrong?

Or perhaps we should assign someone to seduce her assistant, Zimmermann!Fritz-style. That will work!

Somehow, none of these cunning plans ever comes to completion...

I take hope from the fact that Fritz won the Seven Years' War through sheer persistence, if not through cunning. I too can be persistent. Proposed marriage to my wife once a year for seven years before she accepted! Maria von Katte, watch out. :P

(We just want a copy of a manuscript! Is that too much to ask? Pleeeeaase???)