cahn | Don Carlo(s) (more Verdi)

WHERE HAS THIS OPERA BEEN MY WHOLE LIFE AND WHY DIDN'T ANYONE MAKE ME WATCH IT BEFORE NOW. Well, actually, it's probably good no one did until I figured out my feelings about opera as a whole, so it could be as devastatingly awesome for me as it is. This basically matches up perfectly to my id:

-LOTS of duets that are not love duets (and also love duets, which is fine, but non-love-duets are my jam)
-LOTS of scenes with more than two people singing together
-LOTS of scenes where the chorus is interacting with the leads, Verdi is the best for that, isn't he
-...okay I guess it doesn't actually pass Bechdel, but at least we get a women duet (and it would pass Bechdel if the Countess got a singing line)
-A really great (and in fact extremely-non-villain, in this case) baritone role!
-Friendship and loyalty and self-sacrifice (seriously, Rodrigo is THE BEST)
-Friends who trust each other with their lives even when things look suspicious, and they're RIGHT to do so (...I might have read ahead in the libretto because I was so worried about betrayal, which I could not handle being surprised by)
-Lots of singing about BEING BFFs FOREVER
-Politics and relationships side-by-side and influencing each other
-Characters prizing HONOR and DUTY over romantic love
-Really great characters whose religion makes them more awesome, in conjunction with really awful characters who use religion to make themselves more awful
-A villain who has some humanity and understandable motivations (after all those pixels sacrificed to arguing Giorgio Germont isn't exactly a villain, I will admit that Philip, though with dimension to his character, is a total villain; I guess I draw the line at actually handing over your son and wife to the Inquisition)

Things that don't match up to my id:
-It super bothers me that Rodrigo's sacrifice -- and Elisabetta's! Let us not forget amazingly awesome Elisabetta! -- was completely useless. I NEED FIX-IT FOR THIS, it doesn't have to be fix-it where Carlos lives (or... doesn't have whatever exactly happens to him at the end happens) though that would obviously be great too, but it does have to be fix-it where Flanders turns out OK!

I listened to the Opera in English version (based on the 4-act French version, I think), which is quite good (not world-class, but did very much get across how amazing this opera is) and the Levine recording , and I watched the Met On Demand 2010 version, which. OH. WOW. This was seven kinds of excellent. Keenlyside as Rodrigo, Alagna as Don Carlo, Poplavskaya as Elisabetta, Furlanetto as Philip. I don't think I had ever heard Furlanetto sing before (that was when I went and grabbed the Levine recording on Spotify because it has him) and he was possibly my favorite of the cast; he was menacing and overbearing and vulnerable by turns. His scene with Keenlyside was just totally riveting and emotionally draining. Alagna's hair seems to not be quite so fluffy any more (I know, real people are concerned with voices, I'm just concerned about fluffy hair), and I've always thought that he has a bit of a puppy-dog vibe, which works really well as Carlo, actually. Poplavskaya was really really wonderful, both vocally and acting-wise. I like her voice a lot and am thinking I will have to look her up now. And she really sold the claustrophobia of the queen's position -- and her last aria was amazing. Alagna and Poplavskaya together were mesmerizing, and this is from someone who doesn't really usually like love duets. (Though it probably helps that these duets are of the "We cannot possibly be together because of HONOR!" type.) Keenlyside was of course wonderful; I'm always charmed and amazed by how he manages to run around on stage and still be able to sing. The only thing is that he would sometimes silently mutter to himself, and I felt like if I understood what he was saying it would add even more awesomeness to his portrayal, but of course I can't lipread Italian (I mean, I can't lipread English, for that matter). The only one I didn't adore was Anna Smirnova as Eboli -- it's one of those voices where I can't hear the actual pitch because of the wobble, which I don't like, and which in particular didn't work well in the trios and such. Oh, and the Grand Inquisitor, who was also very wobbly.

But anyway I also think it is funny that EVERYONE in this opera agrees with me that Rodrigo is the best; every single character in the opera, including Philip, seems to be in love with him -- well, I guess Elisabetta and Eboli are a bit busy being in love with Carlo -- but even the Grand Inquisitor seems... overly obsessed with him and his awesomeness. I'm just saying.

One of the greatest things about Rodrigo is that he never once gets fed up with having to get Carlo out of scrapes. Seriously, it seemed like every time I turned around, Carlo was getting himself into trouble and Rodrigo was figuring out some way to get him out. My favorite is when Carlo is in the process of admitting to Eboli that he's in love with Elisabetta (part of Carlo's problem is that he can't lie to save his life... literally) and, like, he says two words and suddenly Rodrigo is there and is all "He's raving, don't believe anything he says!" <3 Poor Rodrigo. Oh, and when he's not busy keeping Carlo out of trouble he has to look after Philip behaving like a spoiled brat. I feel like he needs an aria that goes something like, "Am I the only adult here?!"

(Though Rodrigo's tragic flaw is that he apparently doesn't realize Carlo won't keep getting himself into trouble once he's gone. Sigh.)

Keenlyside, hilariously to me, definitely plays up the slashy aspect at the beginning. When Alagna's singing about how he has a love, and it's sinful, Keenlyside is all acting like "Ohhhh? TELL ME MORE while I snuggle up to you..." and when Alagna reveals it's the Queen, Keenlyside looks not just shocked but also disappointed. I had kind of weird thoughts about the slashiness of it, where at the beginning I thought it was great (though tempered by my usual wish to see more real friendships and fewer romantic relationships) and then when Rodrigo died (spoiler: he is a baritone) I was less interested, because for some reason it sort of weirded me out in a "kill the gays" kind of way. (Boy, his pre-death aria in this production is also slashy, though, with Keenlyside caressing Alagna's hair in a way that really does not strike me as platonic.) I think I still ship it on Carlo's side, though -- if Carlo carries a torch for Rodrigo, I'm up for that.

...I really feel like Barrayar must have some version of Don Carlo. Actually, probably all their operas are variants on Don Carlo.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

iberiandoctor

aaa, I love this opera, and it was wonderful to hear your thoughts on it. In terms of hair fluffiness and prettiness, this is my favourite version of That Duet, with Jonas Kaufmann and Thomas Hampson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPxYQbBuDI.

I am totally partial to We cannot possibly be together because of HONOR duets, and I will also say I do appreciate the slashy scenes! It appears that there is, in fact, some Rodrigo/Carlo fic ;)

It seems Keenlyside has sung this with Hampson before, which sounds like an explosion of hotness, I mean, good singing.

ETA: I was wrong, it was Kaufmann who sang with Keenlyside, in 2009! And it would indeed seem as if an explosion of hotness occurred: http://www.simonkeenlyside.info/index.php/performances/performances-opera/don-carlo-verdi/2009-roh-london-don-carlo/

Edited Date: 2018-04-30 07:21 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

<33333 this opera!!

Haha, Alagna's hair used to be a little too fluffy for me, in the sense that I would watch it, fascinated, when I was supposed to be paying attention to the singing... It's calmed down now, though he is still pretty, both of which I think are good things. THOMAS HAMPSON AND JONAS KAUFMANN, THOUGH. Holy cow. Thank you for linking that! Thomas Hampson has rapidly become my favorite baritone ever, and I don't think I had really watched Kaufmann before -- but now I am going to have to -- That is AMAZING. I mean, I wouldn't want to listen if it wasn't amazing singing, but the hotness definitely is a nontrivial factor :)

So you inspired me to go youtube diving!
I found this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqrbM-MSoKQ
which admittedly is mostly Kaufmann talking about Don Carlo and less beautiful singing and no Awesome Duet, but I loved it because a) I adore Kaufmann's headcanon about Carlo, and b) at 13:41, they show the scene where Carlo is talking back to the King (getting ready to draw his sword) and Hampson is just looking at him with this incredible look of "NOOOOOO DON'T DO IT" ...I couldn't resist. Between those two videos, I just pulled the trigger on the DVD. I will report back.

Also man, Kaufmann and Keenlyside, what an explosion of hotness and (presumbly) amazing singing, sigh. I am so bummed that they didn't release that on DVD because I would be SO THERE. I think the DVD that ROH did release is Villazon and Keenlyside. Here's a clip of the last half of That Duet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HqH9tgMH4I
Unfortunately, although there is still a good deal of hotness going on, Villazon's pitch seems kind of flat to me :( I might still pick it up someday for Keenlyside and Furlanetto, though.

Do you have any other Verdi favorites I should be looking up? (So far I've seen La Traviata, Macbeth, and Don Carlo.)

From:

seekingferret

https://seekingferret.dreamwidth.org/209694.html (CW: I had not yet learned about Levine's history as a rapist)

From:

cahn

That sounds great. Zdenka also mentioned it as a good one. And I see it in Met On Demand, excellent.

(Yeah... I didn't learn about Levine until the Met investigation results made the news, which was... only like a month or two ago.)

From:

iberiandoctor

I love Hampson so much; he was introduced to me by a Les Mis fandom friend, and I'm convinced that he is a National Treasure! (Totally irrelevantly, I got sidetracked by youtube diving into watching him masterclass at Juilliard -- he is so adorable and handsome and smart and SO incredibly helpful, and the students are so starstruck! See this: Tanzlied and Mon coeur s'ouvre a ta voix. Who am I kidding, I could watch him speak all day.)

I will say I am also an admirer of Kaufmann (though purists say snide things about his hotness). His voice is so gorgeous and rich esp for a tenor (there was some very snide muttering about how he's really a baritone with a good top, lol), and as you point out, he has such an in-depth approach to his characters, he speaks four languages, and he has chemistry with everyone! Check out this concert version of That Duet with Dmitri Hvorostovsky, and his fanboying of Domingo at the German Opera Awards. Also, he famously adores Verdi ;)

Heh, Villazon is also pretty hot, though you're right, something is a bit off, or maybe it's the vid itself? You must keep me posted on the DVD!

I actually came lateish to opera via the lower-brow route of musicals -- Hub is the fan, and we memorably watched 5 hours of modern-staged Gotterdammerung at the Bayerische Staatsoper a couple of years ago. Our lyric opera is in love with Puccini, though this year it seems we're doing Aida! I do love Verdi, I find him actually really accessible, and Don Carlo is my fave -- although I have a soft spot for Rigoletto, based as it is on a Victor Hugo play ;)

How about you -- what is your Verdi fave?

Edited Date: 2018-05-03 07:51 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

YES LET US SQUEE ABOUT THOMAS HAMPSON PLEASE

I have so many feeeeeelings about Hampson... I mean, how is it even possible that he has such an amazing voice, is so good-looking, is such a good actor (I seriously don't think he can be bettered on stage, although there are certainly others as good *cough*Kaufmann), is so intelligent, AND is a freakishly amazing teacher. Those masterclasses! Thank you for the links, they are amazing. I really should take detailed notes and then practice and then I think I would be a much better singer. Maybe someday I'll have the time :)

Except I can see that I am going to shortly have all kinds of feelings about Kaufmann, WOW. Those links! I have suuuuch a love for seeing singers record -- Broadway singers, opera singers, I don't even care, but that moment where you see them finish a duet and just be so happy about it, it's so marvelous. And awwww the Domingo fanboying, and with Hvorostovsky (another lovely voice)! Thank you!

Ha, I come to opera from an oratorio/choral route, but also from the musical route -- this is why almost all of my opera posts begin "So, I listened to this in Opera in English..." because it is so much easier for me to connect on a Broadway-musical English-language level! I'm also a latecomer to opera -- I got into Mozart and the Ring maybe 5-10 years ago (by the way, I do admire your sitting through Gotterdammerung for your husband, that is true love), and a couple of others like Eugene Onegin -- but only discovered Verdi two months ago!! Relatedly, I think a large part of what I love about Hampson's voice is that it actually codes to me as more like a "Broadway" voice than a traditional operatic voice. (It also sounds to me more like an oratorio voice, and I'm always so happy to hear him do oratorio.) Like, can't you imagine him singing Javert? Not that he would necessarily ever want to do that, but the point is that it's easy to imagine it. (Whereas I love Simon Keenlyside so much! He's such a great actor, and a really great musician! but it's much harder for me to imagine his voice singing on Broadway.) And I've seen snide comments that Hampson doesn't have the right sound for a Verdi baritone, but if that's the case, I am so happy he doesn't, because being able to hear that sound he produces as part of a Verdi opera was part of what got me into it :D

I've only seen four Verdi operas so far (I'm working on it!!) -- I did see Rigoletto and really liked it but found it super-intense, maybe a little too intense for me, ha. I don't know if you saw all my super-wordy Traviata posts but I just fell totally and completely in love with Traviata -- and not coincidentally with Thomas Hampson, as Germont (it was the first time I'd ever seen him, though I'd heard his voice on recordings). I linked to a couple of youtube videos of him here (these are both full-length so one has to skip around a bit for the Germont scenes -- they start at ~40min -- not that I would know or anything) and I would LOVE to talk to you about them! Although if you have not watched Traviata before, the two linked in that post are probably terrible ones to start with and, um, let me know if this is the case and I might be able to help you out there too ;) )

(The Salzburg 2005, which I adore, is also a bit hilarious to me because it's like they tried to make him as non-hot as possible -- his hair is all slicked down in a weird way, and he's clearly been directed to act awkward and stiff (almost spectrum-y, to my eyes) and miserable. But for me, at least, the interpretation is so heartbreaking and he's so good and his singing is amazing (I think a big part of what is so great is that there's this double layer of acting emotionally-awkward and singing emotionally-richly going on, how does he even DO that) and he totally sells that version of tortured!Germont to me.) (And, uh, I still think he's hot. I guess I go for the repressed paternal thing he's doing there? But more so in "Di Provenza il mar" and end of Act II.)

What, is Kaufmann not allowed to be hot? I mean, if he were hot and a lame singer that would be one thing, but he's wonderful! Also I am a big fan of baritones, so that probably explains why I like his voice so much :)

Ha, you're right, it may be a vid issue, I may be being too harsh on Villazon :) (who was anyway brilliant in the Traviata above)

From:

iberiandoctor

I absolutely did not need to fall back into the hellpit of Hampson love, but I am sure you are not sorry and TBH neither am I* :)

He is the complete package, in my view (and I’m so glad I don’t have to apologise to you for my shallow appreciation of his hotness :)). I agree he doesn’t have the traditional operatic voice, but that is absolutely why I love him, because he is so communicative and accessible, while at the same time being technically brilliant. I think you’ve hit it on the head when you say he would be perfect on Broadway — his voice is dramatic, but it’s such an unforced, effortless drama, iykwim? (He would be perfect for Javert. Or Valjean, actually. Bryn Terfel has a wonderful “Stars”, and I bet Hampson’s “Who Am I”/BHH would be even better ;))

Hah, like you my first operatic love was Mozart (Hub thought Don Giovanni would be more accessible than Wagner, and he was right!), and this is something Hampson has sung awesomely: check this amazing 1991 version with an extremely hot young Don, plus a more recent (and even hotter, imo) showcase ;))) My Les Mis fandom friend linked me to his Tosca, and this is my fave because this 2009 production also stars Kaufmann as Cavaradossi <333

That said, OMG that Traviata! That Germont! SO GOOD. (And two such different performances — from Hampson and from the entire cast!) Thank you for linking! I am actually very partial to modern sets, when they make sense for the performance, and I thought the Salzburg 2005 with its curved set and the swathes of floral material etc was very interesting). I have never seen Traviata vids, and the one time I watched it here live it was kind of underwhelming, so your links and extensive posts were a real gift <3

OK, this is definitely enough squeeing about silver-haired baritones (one more! That duet, this time with Alaga! Plus a concert version with Kaufmann!). I need to stop glomphing in your comment section and make my own post ;) I, uh, may have a post about romantic operatic friendship that features shirtless duets, and it is here!

(*I have far more embarrassing fandom loves — I I used to be in American Idol fandom! — and Hub actually would encourage my fangirling in this regard ;) Haha, I actually quite enjoy Wagner, and really enjoyed the 2015 modern Ring Cycle, and would have stayed awake for all 5 hours if not for the jet lag!)

Edited Date: 2018-05-06 11:36 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

I am just sooooo psyched to find someone who UNDERSTANDS about Thomas Hampson and how extremely hot he is, haha! (Would your other fandom friend be interested in joining this conversation? :D ) He is just SO GOOD. It's also that he's so good that there are a billion productions that he is in, which is of course great (more to watch!) but also just fuels the obsession, doesn't it :)

Also I am super delighted that I have managed to get you into Traviata, because I love it SO MUCH (it's so different than Don Carlo in a lot of ways, but they are both so good and much of what I love about them is similar even though the stories and characters are so different) and I love Hampson's Germonts SO MUCH and like you say I love that Traviata itself can be so different and Hampson himself can make his character so different.

I am SO GLAD you liked the Salzburg Traviata — I was completely blown away by it (it was my first Traviata) although I know people have wildly divergent opinions on the modern set. It's just clearly so completely thought-out and every single little choice that was made in terms of the set and choreography in support of its interpretations, and it's so richly filled with coherent interpretations, and Netrebko and Villazon and Hampson are all SO SO good (I mean, the chemistry betwen Netrebko and Villazon is out of this world, but being a mad Hampson fan I adore even more the superb though non-romantic chemistry between Netrebko and Hampson, ugh SO GOOD, did you like me have SO MANY FEELINGS about Netrebko singing "Qual figlia m'abbracciate" (as a daughter embrace me) and Germont just aborting it (what is your problem Germont), and about Netrebko spinning into Hampson's arms at the end of Act II), I love it so much. And then the 2016 one is probably my favorite Hampson video because he just gets to be *so* expressive (I suspect his singing in 2005 is probably even better but I haven't even checked).

OMG Hampson as Giovanni. I haven't finished the 1991 version yet, but whoa, that conservatory duet of "La ci darem la mano," oh man, I have ALL THE FEELINGS. It's a really interesting performance (does Hampson ever do not-really-interesting performances, I guess not) because he is sort of simultaneously playing the Don seducing Zerlina (or possibly a slightly nicer version of Giovanni) and himself-Thomas-Hampson-the-singer-playacting-seducing-Gabrielle-Traub (I love his delighted smiles at "Vorrei e non vorrei" and when she goes for him later in the piece) and constantly breaking the fourth wall a bit, or anyway he definitely is at the end when everyone in the audience I'm sure like me is saying, gosh, are they actually going to (stage?) kiss?? and he sort of winks at the audience and then goes in for it. Yeah, super hot, and whoa, that must have been amazing for that soprano (and I am all kinds of jealous!) and also kind of overwhelming!

And oh, that Tosca! I had a bit of whiplash because I came directly from also watching Don Carlo, lol, so it was like, they're best friends! They are SO NOT best friends! Oh man, that is some intense enemy chemistry, though! Kaufmann! I think there is a Met video of him doing Siegmund… that is definitely going on my Must Watch list.

HOLY COW. I had no idea Terfel could do that! (I would have also pegged him as a non-Broadway voice, but, okay, uh, clearly not.)

Ahaha, when you say "silver-haired baritone" my mind immediately jumps to Hvorostovsky! (Or would that be a white fox baritone?) Speaking of scorching hot :( I love Hampson more, because I find Hvorostovsky's acting less intense, especially in Verdi (though his voice and his hotness are, were, always amazing), but the one place where Hvorostosky is The Most Amazing Ever And I Don't See How Even Hampson Could Do It Better is Eugene Onegin, in which he is absolutely tremendous -- you know what, I am just going to make this another post because I can already tell this is going to be long. But okay, I can't resist, have a link of super hotness and chemistry: Finale of Eugene Onegin, Fleming and Hvorostovsky

From:

iberiandoctor

Heh, I only know Hvorotosky from that amazing concert with Kaufmann, and of course about his tragic demise last year (much too soon), but Onegin is supposed to be his signature role, isn't it? I think I need to Ready Myself to watch. I will report back! Or, you know, just glomph in your comments section when you're done with your Onegin post ;)

The Hampson Scarpia/Kaufmann Cavaradossi INSANE ENEMY CHEMISTRY, though! I'm so glad you enjoyed!

And that conservatory showcase is actually truly my guilty pleasure! Supposedly Giovanni was Hampson's signature role (and you can see how he gives it this swaggering irresistible charm that only intensifies the older he gets!), and when he does the seduction duet and winks at the audience before going in for the smooch, you can just imagine the collective smitten sigh going around the room, and indeed the universe. (I am so glad you gushed as hard as you did, because believe me this was the level of gushing that was occurring in my own head ;))

Aaaand before the other people in your dw circle start to side-eye my Hampson fangirling, I think I'd better take this to email! Thank you for letting me shriek at you about hot baritones, and joining in aforesaid shrieking, even ;)

Edited Date: 2018-05-10 05:54 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

Oh man, yes, that swaggering charm only gets better! (His young!Giovanni is so cute! But older!Giovanni, oh GOSH.) Yep, with that wink I was basically swooning :)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Greetings! I have come from the future (5 years in the future :D), and I am here for all your Bryn Terfel recs. Especially the non-operatic ones, though I will accept opera recs suitable for non-opera fans. ;)

From:

alcanis_ivennil

Keenlyside is another fantastic Rodrigo :D And yeah, that hand-kissing and hair-caressing... he loves his prince a lot. In the ROH version of this same production, he kissed Villazón's hair!

For more nice and gay versions: there is a Munich one with Jonas and Boaz Daniel, where their duet is staged like they are getting married and the Monk officiates, and that production also plays up Philip (René Pape) being into Rodrigo a LOT. And it has the Lacrimosa!

Torino 2013 also has a LOT of touching and hugging with Vargas and Tézier.

From:

cahn

Augh, Keenlyside! He was one of my first opera crushes ever (it looks like you're going through my opera posts, so you can probably see that, lol) and still just one of my absolute favorites, he's so good. I actually have just got the ROH as a birthday present and watched it, watch this space. (Although I don't remember him kissing Villazon's hair -- or wait -- was that after he gets the letters from him? SO GREAT)

For more nice and gay versions: there is a Munich one with Jonas and Boaz Daniel, where their duet is staged like they are getting married and the Monk officiates, and that production also plays up Philip (René Pape) being into Rodrigo a LOT. And it has the Lacrimosa!

WAIT THIS IS EXTREMELY RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS HOW DO I GET THIS?

(if Philip is into Rodrigo a lot then they have to do the Lacrimosa, that's all I'm saying :) )

From:

alcanis_ivennil

https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3916017

You just need to register and turn on translation. This site is a goldmine for opera.

There is also vk.com, also Russian, which has a lot of Youtube-like videos - also a goldmine. They even have the 2017 Paris Don Carlos up, which was the French version (again with Jonas).

From:

cahn

RIGHT. Thank you!

Oh, I was just going to ask if you'd watched that 2017 Paris one! Someone actually put it on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTLsiahb5w) and I inhaled it -- I'll post on it at some point, but a) is it just me, or is it played such that you could assume Carlos is completely delusional (and Philip is too, like father like son, I guess), and b) WHAT IS THIS RODRIGO NOT GETTING CARLOS' HAND, I CAN'T DEAL. Ahem.

From: (Anonymous)

The Fountainebleau scene really seems to be a flashback/imagination, and yeah, what is up with Philip being such a mess? Both of them need help.

That cage is the worst. Poor Rodrigo. Let Carlos hold him oh my gods. (But Tézier is fantastic.) Sure, Eboli can give the whole court their lesbian awakening but Carlos and Rodrigo barely get to touch? And this from the director who made that super gay Onegin?

From:

cahn

Everyone in this opera needs help -- I mean, this is usually true of Don Carlos, but man do they lean on it.

I have Thoughts about how no one ever gets to touch (except I guess Eboli) and how this is related to everyone just being so messed up...I'm going to have to write this post because I have SO MANY THOUGHTS. This was the same director that made super gay Onegin? Wow.