Classics Salon!

[cahn]

So yeah, anyone who has been around this DW for more than a very little while has known that we had a salon in which we discussed Frederick the Great in particular and 18th-century Enlightenment figures in general.

But nooooow we are going to have a Classics salon!

My Classics background is, er, well, I guess my Classics history is pretty much on par with or somewhat worse than my general non-US historical background (read: I know almost nothing, with some random pockets of slight layman knowledge), and my Classics literary background is signficantly worse than my general literary background (no real reason, it's not like I had a vendetta against it or anything, I think I just didn't happen to have a good entry point). I've read the Odyssey last year and the Aeneid reasonably recently, and the Iliad not so reasonably recently (perhaps this will be the impetus for me to check out the Wilson translation), and Ted Hughes' translation of selected Metamorphoses.

Please feel free to tell me what books I really ought to be looking at next! (I believe there has been some discussion of Plutarch?) Feel free to wax eloquent about your favorite translations, whether it's something I've already read or not! Also please free to tell me any of your favorite Classics history you want, because I probably don't know it :)

(This is not supposed to be just for mildred_of_midgard and selenak, although of course I expect them to be prime contributors. I know that many of you, probably all of you, know a lot about Classics that I don't know, so please inform me! Tell me your favorite things! :D )

Comments

Re: Divided Populace? Fake News? Senatorial Bias vs Popularity of the Worst?

[selenak]

Incidentally, for those not firm on Caligula and Wilhelm II., here are some of the implicit parallels Quidde drew by his phrasing:

- both have a very popular father (Germanicus/ Crown Prince Friedrich who ever briefly ended up as Friedrich III) on whom people pin their hopes for a liberal change from the conservative, oppressive government and whose early tragic death means these hopes and popularity get transferred upon his son

- Caligula/Willy actually is not like Dad at all but might be a bit like his Mom, a proud, passionate princess in enmity with the Pretorian Prefect (Agrippina the Elder/ Vicky the daughter of Queen Victoria)

- originally, everyone expects the old head of the Pretorian Guard to be the real boss, as the (former) head had been under Tiberius, but no, Caligula fires the guy (very obvious allusion to Willy firing Bismarck early on which gets compared to Caligula getting rid of Macro - this is specially glaringly obvious because Macro, who wasn't that old, nonetheless gets described as old (obviously Bismarck was)

- "So, let's talk about Caesarenwahnsinn. This is the syndrome where it's not just an egomaniac on the helm who constantly calls himself the best and has his sycophantic environment tell him the same thing day in and day out, but where the people themselves become complicit because they get corrupted as well and what opposition there is doesn't dare to do much for fear of being sued. Oh, and those guys make it a crime to critisze them in any way. Thank God we live in better times, amirite?"

(Mildred, the actual phrasing safe for the last sentence, which comes at the end of the essay, is: "Der spezifische Cäsarenwahnsinn ist das Produkt von Zuständen, die nur gedeihen können bei der moralischen Degeneration monarchisch gesinnter Völker oder doch der höher stehenden Klassen, aus denen sich die nähere Umgebung der Herrscher zusammensetzt. Der Eindruck einer scheinbar unbegrenzten Macht läßt den Monarchen alle Schranken der Rechtsordnung vergessen; die theoretische Begründung dieser Macht als eines göttlichen Rechtes verrückt die Ideen des Armen, der wirklich daran glaubt, in unheilvoller Weise; die Formen der höfischen Etikette – und noch mehr die darüber hinausgehende unterwürfige Verehrung aller derer, die sich an den Herrscher herandrängen – bringen ihm vollends die Vorstellung bei, ein über alle Menschen durch die Natur selbst erhobenes Wesen zu sein; aus Beobachtungen, die er bei seiner Umgebung machen kann, erwächst ihm zugleich die Ansicht, daß es ein verächtlicher, gemeiner Haufen ist, der ihn umgibt. Kommt dann noch hinzu, daß nicht nur die höfische Umgebung, sondern auch die Masse des Volkes korrumpiert ist, daß der Herrscher, er mag beginnen, was er will, keinen mannhaften offenen Widerstand findet, daß die Opposition, wenn sie sich einmal hervorwagt, zum mindesten ängstlich den Schein aufrecht erhält, die Person des Herrschers und dessen Anschauungen nicht bekämpfen zu wollen, ist gar dieser korrumpierte Geist, der das Vergehen der Majestätsbeleidigung erfunden hat und in der Versagung der Ehrfurcht eine strafbare Beleidigung des Herrschers erblickt, in die Gesetzgebung und in die Rechtsprechung eingezogen: so ist es ja wirklich zu verwundern, wenn ein so absoluter Monarch bei gesunden Sinnen bleibt."

Re: Divided Populace? Fake News? Senatorial Bias vs Popularity of the Worst?

[mildred_of_midgard]

Wow, that's great. Maybe somebody should translate that into English, tweak it a bit, and publish it in a certain English-speaking country.

Re: Divided Populace? Fake News? Senatorial Bias vs Popularity of the Worst?

[selenak]

My thoughts precisely, when I read it.

Re: Divided Populace? Fake News? Senatorial Bias vs Popularity of the Worst?

[cahn]

Thank you for this, this is all great.

- "So, let's talk about Caesarenwahnsinn. This is the syndrome where it's not just an egomaniac on the helm who constantly calls himself the best and has his sycophantic environment tell him the same thing day in and day out, but where the people themselves become complicit because they get corrupted as well and what opposition there is doesn't dare to do much for fear of being sued. Oh, and those guys make it a crime to critisze them in any way. Thank God we live in better times, amirite?"

Oh GOSH.