I think [personal profile] selenak once found a more reliable source stating that his sole given name was Friedrich?
I think it may have been in the letters between F1 and Sophie of Hannover when the kid was born. Again, would have to check, do not have the time right now.
LOL about the deathbed horse. Considering FW's state in the last years of his life, I doubt he got much riding done, whereas Fritz did the avarage Prussian nobleman thing of daily riding, so in that case, if he gave the horse to his buddy, it couldn't have been because Fritz had no use for it.
Separately but on a related note, I can't find a reliable source for FW dragging Fritz by his hair at Zeithain. Here's what I've found
Interesting. I do remember biographies claiming he did this, but direct source quotations linking the event to Zeithain in particular, hm, not sure. One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
I think it may have been in the letters between F1 and Sophie of Hannover when the kid was born. Again, would have to check, do not have the time right now.
One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
Yeah, I searched through Hinrichs before asking, and I couldn't find anything. That's actually where I found Rochow's testament about the hair-dragging the *previous* winter. Admittedly, Hinrichs is difficult for me to skim, because of the font and the convoluted syntax and neverending sentences--that's why I used the search function--so it might be in there and I'm missing it.
If I have time, I'll type up a couple excerpts from Chesterfield's letters that I received from the archives today: nothing new to salon, but I am entertained by all the hostility to FW.
I also placed the order for some Knyphausen-related papers today, so hopefully in a month or so we get those and I have actual new findings!
Frederick vs. Karl Frederick: Preuss says both and says the question hasn't been settled yet! Looks like there's a contemporary newspaper that says Karl Frederick, but other contemporary sources that say just "Frederick," and the archive and the church records of the Dom haven't shed any light on the matter.
Found this by accident while looking for something Peter Keith-related.
Also found while looking for something Peter-related: the London Journal of January 9, 1731:
We have been long in Hopes of hearing of the Return of the Prince Royal of Prussia to the Court of Berlin; but hitherto in vain. There is no mention made of him in all our Letters: But take Notice, that the Loss of Lieutenant Catsch, who was beheaded before His Royal Highness's Window at Kustrin, is still greatly lamented in Private. They say he was a brave Officer, of good Carriage, and of good Descent; and add, that when he was upon the Scaffold, he declared that no Part of the Tragedy was grievous to him, but the Placing of the Scene upon the Spot where he was executed.
Meaning that Fritz had to watch, I assume. Our eyewitness sources indicate he was actually happy he would get to see Fritz one last time, though I suppose he also felt some sympathy for Fritz being in that horrible position.
Lastly, they commend General Grumbkow for his Dexterity, in shifting the Presidence of the Council of War that try'd Lieutenant Catsch, from himself to General Schulemberg, whose Prudence they call in question for accepting of that Office.
Lol!
Also, I've seen a lot of spellings of Katte, but this is the first Catsch I've seen.
Catsch is definitely a new one. Pity later researchers looking for Katte mentions.
Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
LOL on Grumbkow, because, yeah. Mind you, isn't Schulenburg related to G1's mistress and Katte's sort of aunt, now retired? also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Catsch is definitely a new one. Pity later researchers looking for Katte mentions.
An American scholar studying the Catsch family!
Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
Yeah, or else the story had gone through several iterations before it got to him. You can see where it's based on a true story: Katte did reassure Fritz that he wasn't distressed by death, but then the story went a little off track.
also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Grumbkow: Dying in 1739 was my cunning plan all along!
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-04-10 07:37 am (UTC)I think it may have been in the letters between F1 and Sophie of Hannover when the kid was born. Again, would have to check, do not have the time right now.
LOL about the deathbed horse. Considering FW's state in the last years of his life, I doubt he got much riding done, whereas Fritz did the avarage Prussian nobleman thing of daily riding, so in that case, if he gave the horse to his buddy, it couldn't have been because Fritz had no use for it.
Separately but on a related note, I can't find a reliable source for FW dragging Fritz by his hair at Zeithain. Here's what I've found
Interesting. I do remember biographies claiming he did this, but direct source quotations linking the event to Zeithain in particular, hm, not sure. One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-04-16 12:12 am (UTC)One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
Yeah, I searched through Hinrichs before asking, and I couldn't find anything. That's actually where I found Rochow's testament about the hair-dragging the *previous* winter. Admittedly, Hinrichs is difficult for me to skim, because of the font and the convoluted syntax and neverending sentences--that's why I used the search function--so it might be in there and I'm missing it.
If I have time, I'll type up a couple excerpts from Chesterfield's letters that I received from the archives today: nothing new to salon, but I am entertained by all the hostility to FW.
I also placed the order for some Knyphausen-related papers today, so hopefully in a month or so we get those and I have actual new findings!
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-05-30 02:50 am (UTC)Found this by accident while looking for something Peter Keith-related.
Also found while looking for something Peter-related: the London Journal of January 9, 1731:
We have been long in Hopes of hearing of the Return of the Prince Royal of Prussia to the Court of Berlin; but hitherto in vain. There is no mention made of him in all our Letters: But take Notice, that the Loss of Lieutenant Catsch, who was beheaded before His Royal Highness's Window at Kustrin, is still greatly lamented in Private. They say he was a brave Officer, of good Carriage, and of good Descent; and add, that when he was upon the Scaffold, he declared that no Part of the Tragedy was grievous to him, but the Placing of the Scene upon the Spot where he was executed.
Meaning that Fritz had to watch, I assume. Our eyewitness sources indicate he was actually happy he would get to see Fritz one last time, though I suppose he also felt some sympathy for Fritz being in that horrible position.
Lastly, they commend General Grumbkow for his Dexterity, in shifting the Presidence of the Council of War that try'd Lieutenant Catsch, from himself to General Schulemberg, whose Prudence they call in question for accepting of that Office.
Lol!
Also, I've seen a lot of spellings of Katte, but this is the first Catsch I've seen.
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-05-30 06:34 am (UTC)Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
LOL on Grumbkow, because, yeah. Mind you, isn't Schulenburg related to G1's mistress and Katte's sort of aunt, now retired? also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Seckendorff: *waves from Magdeburg cell*
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-05-31 07:24 pm (UTC)An American scholar studying the Catsch family!
Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
Yeah, or else the story had gone through several iterations before it got to him. You can see where it's based on a true story: Katte did reassure Fritz that he wasn't distressed by death, but then the story went a little off track.
also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Grumbkow: Dying in 1739 was my cunning plan all along!