Still tracking down citations, I turned up the 18th century Lisbon newspaper Gazeta de Lisboa, which has been wholly digitized online! This was useful, because you may remember I was making the case that Peter decided to stay in Portugal and wait anxiously for FW to die rather than leave for the East Indies. That means I have to have a good idea of how long the delay was for news from Berlin to Lisbon. (About 6 weeks, it turns out.)
While I was browsing the 1740 newspaper, I also saw FW's death notice. I think it's the earliest source I've seen for Fritz referred to with a given name of "Karl" (Carlos Federico). Previously, that record was held by Samuel Johnson's "Memoirs of Charles Frederick" (written 1756, published (or republished?) 1786--both dates for obvious reasons).
I do wonder where the idea that he was named "Karl/Charles/Carlos" came from. I think selenak once found a more reliable source stating that his sole given name was Friedrich?
In other news, the fire that burned down the entire town of Rheinsberg (but not the palace) shortly before FW's death also made it to Lisbon, the only Berlin news other than FW's death for the first half of 1740.
It also says he left his best horse to the Alte Dessauer on his deathbed, saying, "My dear friend, this is the last present I will ever make you." I knew I'd read he left him his hunting dogs in January (knowing Fritz was never going to use them for their intended purpose), but I don't remember reading about the deathbed horse.
But it may not be true, because the same death notice goes on to report that immediately after FW's death, the Alte Dessauer received an order to leave Berlin within 24 hours, and Prussia as quickly as possible.
Which, no. Fritz wasn't a fan personally, as we know, and he didn't want anyone to think the Alte Dessauer was pulling the strings behind the throne, but he continued to make use of him in the army (although not as much as the AD wanted).
Btw, having another glance at Johnson's memoirs reminds me of a few things I had forgotten or not properly appreciated:
Johnson has FW breeding tall women to tall men.
The 1786 editor's sources are obvious: the details on Fritz's imprisonment conditions go back to Guy-Dickens, presumably indirectly, but that's obviously the account that was current in England.
Likewise, the 1786 editor has been reading Voltaire:
The king at first imagined his daughter the Princess Wilhelmina had been privy to the whole affair; and, as he was remarkable for dispatch in the executive part of justice, he proceeded to kick her out of a large window which reached from the floor to the cieling [sic]. The queen, however, with great difficulty saved her from the fall, but the princess received a hurt in the left breast, which is said never to have left her.
The 1786 editor has Peter eluding his captors by only a few minutes (I think Nicolai's source does too?) and escaping directly from Holland to Portugal. Like I've said, Peter's story is subject to simplification and dramatization.
1786 editor not only has FW making Fritz watch Doris Ritter get whipped, he has FW present with Fritz at Doris's whipping *and* Katte's execution! I remember a fanfic on AO3 that had FW present at Katte's execution, but not that this version was already making the rounds in the 18th century. A natural dramatization, I suppose.
Separately but on a related note, I can't find a reliable source for FW dragging Fritz by his hair at Zeithain. Here's what I've found:
- Seckendorff writing to Eugene in Decemer 1729, saying FW just dragged Fritz by his hair. - Rochow during his 1730 interrogation saying that FW had dragged Fritz by his hair the previous winter. - The 1731 Grumbkow protocol in which FW says he treated Fritz in the harshest and rudest manner at the Saxon camp (Zeithain) in 1730. - Fritz telling Mitchell that FW dragged him by his hair, threw him in the dirt, and made him appear at the parade in that state, which made him determined to escape.
If this happened in December, and in January 1730, FW got that anonymous letter tipping him off to Fritz's escape plans, which inspired him to send Peter to Wesel, I could well understand Fritz seeing that episode as the one that made him determined to escape.
Is there a source I'm missing that explicitly states that FW dragged Fritz by his hair at Zeithain? I'm willing to believe he did it more than once! After all, he was "remarkable for dispatch in the executive part of justice."
I think [personal profile] selenak once found a more reliable source stating that his sole given name was Friedrich?
I think it may have been in the letters between F1 and Sophie of Hannover when the kid was born. Again, would have to check, do not have the time right now.
LOL about the deathbed horse. Considering FW's state in the last years of his life, I doubt he got much riding done, whereas Fritz did the avarage Prussian nobleman thing of daily riding, so in that case, if he gave the horse to his buddy, it couldn't have been because Fritz had no use for it.
Separately but on a related note, I can't find a reliable source for FW dragging Fritz by his hair at Zeithain. Here's what I've found
Interesting. I do remember biographies claiming he did this, but direct source quotations linking the event to Zeithain in particular, hm, not sure. One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
I think it may have been in the letters between F1 and Sophie of Hannover when the kid was born. Again, would have to check, do not have the time right now.
One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
Yeah, I searched through Hinrichs before asking, and I couldn't find anything. That's actually where I found Rochow's testament about the hair-dragging the *previous* winter. Admittedly, Hinrichs is difficult for me to skim, because of the font and the convoluted syntax and neverending sentences--that's why I used the search function--so it might be in there and I'm missing it.
If I have time, I'll type up a couple excerpts from Chesterfield's letters that I received from the archives today: nothing new to salon, but I am entertained by all the hostility to FW.
I also placed the order for some Knyphausen-related papers today, so hopefully in a month or so we get those and I have actual new findings!
Frederick vs. Karl Frederick: Preuss says both and says the question hasn't been settled yet! Looks like there's a contemporary newspaper that says Karl Frederick, but other contemporary sources that say just "Frederick," and the archive and the church records of the Dom haven't shed any light on the matter.
Found this by accident while looking for something Peter Keith-related.
Also found while looking for something Peter-related: the London Journal of January 9, 1731:
We have been long in Hopes of hearing of the Return of the Prince Royal of Prussia to the Court of Berlin; but hitherto in vain. There is no mention made of him in all our Letters: But take Notice, that the Loss of Lieutenant Catsch, who was beheaded before His Royal Highness's Window at Kustrin, is still greatly lamented in Private. They say he was a brave Officer, of good Carriage, and of good Descent; and add, that when he was upon the Scaffold, he declared that no Part of the Tragedy was grievous to him, but the Placing of the Scene upon the Spot where he was executed.
Meaning that Fritz had to watch, I assume. Our eyewitness sources indicate he was actually happy he would get to see Fritz one last time, though I suppose he also felt some sympathy for Fritz being in that horrible position.
Lastly, they commend General Grumbkow for his Dexterity, in shifting the Presidence of the Council of War that try'd Lieutenant Catsch, from himself to General Schulemberg, whose Prudence they call in question for accepting of that Office.
Lol!
Also, I've seen a lot of spellings of Katte, but this is the first Catsch I've seen.
Catsch is definitely a new one. Pity later researchers looking for Katte mentions.
Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
LOL on Grumbkow, because, yeah. Mind you, isn't Schulenburg related to G1's mistress and Katte's sort of aunt, now retired? also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Catsch is definitely a new one. Pity later researchers looking for Katte mentions.
An American scholar studying the Catsch family!
Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
Yeah, or else the story had gone through several iterations before it got to him. You can see where it's based on a true story: Katte did reassure Fritz that he wasn't distressed by death, but then the story went a little off track.
also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Grumbkow: Dying in 1739 was my cunning plan all along!
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timeasmymeasure
Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-04-05 09:31 pm (UTC)While I was browsing the 1740 newspaper, I also saw FW's death notice. I think it's the earliest source I've seen for Fritz referred to with a given name of "Karl" (Carlos Federico). Previously, that record was held by Samuel Johnson's "Memoirs of Charles Frederick" (written 1756, published (or republished?) 1786--both dates for obvious reasons).
I do wonder where the idea that he was named "Karl/Charles/Carlos" came from. I think
In other news, the fire that burned down the entire town of Rheinsberg (but not the palace) shortly before FW's death also made it to Lisbon, the only Berlin news other than FW's death for the first half of 1740.
It also says he left his best horse to the Alte Dessauer on his deathbed, saying, "My dear friend, this is the last present I will ever make you." I knew I'd read he left him his hunting dogs in January (knowing Fritz was never going to use them for their intended purpose), but I don't remember reading about the deathbed horse.
But it may not be true, because the same death notice goes on to report that immediately after FW's death, the Alte Dessauer received an order to leave Berlin within 24 hours, and Prussia as quickly as possible.
Which, no. Fritz wasn't a fan personally, as we know, and he didn't want anyone to think the Alte Dessauer was pulling the strings behind the throne, but he continued to make use of him in the army (although not as much as the AD wanted).
Btw, having another glance at Johnson's memoirs reminds me of a few things I had forgotten or not properly appreciated:
Johnson has FW breeding tall women to tall men.
The 1786 editor's sources are obvious: the details on Fritz's imprisonment conditions go back to Guy-Dickens, presumably indirectly, but that's obviously the account that was current in England.
Likewise, the 1786 editor has been reading Voltaire:
The king at first imagined his daughter the Princess Wilhelmina had been privy to the whole affair; and, as he was remarkable for dispatch in the executive part of justice, he proceeded to kick her out of a large window which reached from the floor to the cieling [sic]. The queen, however, with great difficulty saved her from the fall, but the princess received a hurt in the left breast, which is said never to have left her.
The 1786 editor has Peter eluding his captors by only a few minutes (I think Nicolai's source does too?) and escaping directly from Holland to Portugal. Like I've said, Peter's story is subject to simplification and dramatization.
1786 editor not only has FW making Fritz watch Doris Ritter get whipped, he has FW present with Fritz at Doris's whipping *and* Katte's execution! I remember a fanfic on AO3 that had FW present at Katte's execution, but not that this version was already making the rounds in the 18th century. A natural dramatization, I suppose.
Separately but on a related note, I can't find a reliable source for FW dragging Fritz by his hair at Zeithain. Here's what I've found:
- Seckendorff writing to Eugene in Decemer 1729, saying FW just dragged Fritz by his hair.
- Rochow during his 1730 interrogation saying that FW had dragged Fritz by his hair the previous winter.
- The 1731 Grumbkow protocol in which FW says he treated Fritz in the harshest and rudest manner at the Saxon camp (Zeithain) in 1730.
- Fritz telling Mitchell that FW dragged him by his hair, threw him in the dirt, and made him appear at the parade in that state, which made him determined to escape.
If this happened in December, and in January 1730, FW got that anonymous letter tipping him off to Fritz's escape plans, which inspired him to send Peter to Wesel, I could well understand Fritz seeing that episode as the one that made him determined to escape.
Is there a source I'm missing that explicitly states that FW dragged Fritz by his hair at Zeithain? I'm willing to believe he did it more than once! After all, he was "remarkable for dispatch in the executive part of justice."
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-04-10 07:37 am (UTC)I think it may have been in the letters between F1 and Sophie of Hannover when the kid was born. Again, would have to check, do not have the time right now.
LOL about the deathbed horse. Considering FW's state in the last years of his life, I doubt he got much riding done, whereas Fritz did the avarage Prussian nobleman thing of daily riding, so in that case, if he gave the horse to his buddy, it couldn't have been because Fritz had no use for it.
Separately but on a related note, I can't find a reliable source for FW dragging Fritz by his hair at Zeithain. Here's what I've found
Interesting. I do remember biographies claiming he did this, but direct source quotations linking the event to Zeithain in particular, hm, not sure. One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-04-16 12:12 am (UTC)One possibility where it might have come up: the interrogation protocols of both Katte and Fritz in 1730? At any event Katte talks a lot about Zeithain there, so might have included that.
Yeah, I searched through Hinrichs before asking, and I couldn't find anything. That's actually where I found Rochow's testament about the hair-dragging the *previous* winter. Admittedly, Hinrichs is difficult for me to skim, because of the font and the convoluted syntax and neverending sentences--that's why I used the search function--so it might be in there and I'm missing it.
If I have time, I'll type up a couple excerpts from Chesterfield's letters that I received from the archives today: nothing new to salon, but I am entertained by all the hostility to FW.
I also placed the order for some Knyphausen-related papers today, so hopefully in a month or so we get those and I have actual new findings!
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-05-30 02:50 am (UTC)Found this by accident while looking for something Peter Keith-related.
Also found while looking for something Peter-related: the London Journal of January 9, 1731:
We have been long in Hopes of hearing of the Return of the Prince Royal of Prussia to the Court of Berlin; but hitherto in vain. There is no mention made of him in all our Letters: But take Notice, that the Loss of Lieutenant Catsch, who was beheaded before His Royal Highness's Window at Kustrin, is still greatly lamented in Private. They say he was a brave Officer, of good Carriage, and of good Descent; and add, that when he was upon the Scaffold, he declared that no Part of the Tragedy was grievous to him, but the Placing of the Scene upon the Spot where he was executed.
Meaning that Fritz had to watch, I assume. Our eyewitness sources indicate he was actually happy he would get to see Fritz one last time, though I suppose he also felt some sympathy for Fritz being in that horrible position.
Lastly, they commend General Grumbkow for his Dexterity, in shifting the Presidence of the Council of War that try'd Lieutenant Catsch, from himself to General Schulemberg, whose Prudence they call in question for accepting of that Office.
Lol!
Also, I've seen a lot of spellings of Katte, but this is the first Catsch I've seen.
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-05-30 06:34 am (UTC)Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
LOL on Grumbkow, because, yeah. Mind you, isn't Schulenburg related to G1's mistress and Katte's sort of aunt, now retired? also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Seckendorff: *waves from Magdeburg cell*
Re: Random 1730 and 1740 findings
Date: 2025-05-31 07:24 pm (UTC)An American scholar studying the Catsch family!
Katte declaring that he regrets the placing of the scene is also a new one, and I must say I suspect this newspaper writer of a lot of artistic embellishment.
Yeah, or else the story had gone through several iterations before it got to him. You can see where it's based on a true story: Katte did reassure Fritz that he wasn't distressed by death, but then the story went a little off track.
also, I doubt this maneouvring would have helped Grumbkow in the long run if he'd lived into Fritz' reign instead of timely dying in 1739.
Grumbkow: Dying in 1739 was my cunning plan all along!