Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 42

[cahn]

Last post, we had (among other things) Danish kings and their favorites; Louis XIV and Philippe d'Orléans; reviews of a very shippy book about Katte, a bad Jacobite novel, and a great book about clothing; a fic about Émilie du Châtelet and Voltaire; and a review of a set of entertaining Youtube history videos about Frederick the Great.

Comments

Re: Charles Hanbury-Williams: Russia (The Life III)

[mildred_of_midgard]

By the rules of their society, he's not wrong, though I find it hilarious that the young woman whose Suhm he's going to become is just about the least person who can ever be described as shining through her husband.

Ha! Truer words were never spoken.

(A sound believer in diplomatic immunity, Sir Charles.)

Whereas Suhm did not trust diplomatic immunity around FW, not even a little bit. August the Strong had to scold him into going back to Prussia after he ran away.

I also think since he was still compos mentis, he was very aware what it would do both to his personal relationship with Catherine and to his grand England/Russia treaty project if he infected her with syphilis as he'd done his wife.

Oof, yeah. That could have changed history!

Could it be Catherine tells H-W (still seething about Fritz himself) what he wants to hear? Perish the thought...but I doubt she had actual animosity towards the man she only met once and then it was a good meeting.)

Yeah, I was surprised by that! Isn't that story of their meeting from her memoirs anyway? Which would indicate she retained a positive impression of it years later.

But he knows that Elizaveta, who means this treaty to be ANTI Fritz, will not be happy to find herself indirectly in an alliance with him. No kidding.

WHOOPS.

Basically, H-W's diplomatic masterpiece proves to be dead upon arrival, and it breaks his heart, and this, his biographers want you to know, is the main reason for his mental and physical decline which starts showing just about this time. That, and all the stress. Nothing else, you hear!!

It was surprisingly hard to write history in the Roaring Twenties...

La Pucelle: Seriously, everyone BUT Fritz gets their hands on that work.

Ha!

The Catherine and H-W letters were really interesting! This book is definitely worthy of an 8(+?) part write-up!

Re: Charles Hanbury-Williams: Russia (The Life III)

[selenak]

Yeah, I was surprised by that! Isn't that story of their meeting from her memoirs anyway? Which would indicate she retained a positive impression of it years later.

Honestly, I think both that she told H-W what he wanted to hear - I mean, he wasn't exactly discreet about hating on Fritz when arriving in Russia -, and he probably blew it up even larger in his reports home. Because let's face it, Berlin hadn't exactly been his finest hour as an envoy. And then he goes and alienates MT, too. So being able to say "see, not only does the "young court", i.e. de facto the Grand Duchess like me, but they completly agree with my view on Fritz, so won't have to worry about her and her husband teaming up with him!" must have been important to him. (Remember, when he arrives in Russia he has no idea that an England/Prussia treaty is in the works, and "ally with us AGAINST Fritz" is his major selling point of the Russia/England treaty to Elizaveta.