In which I rant about Delenn
Sep. 8th, 2022 05:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahnSo, I just finished S4 of B5 and started S5, and there are lots of exciting and interesting and moving things going on, but, well, this particular rant is because it's just sort of happened that I have somehow got really intensely involved in Delenn's relationships (mostly in the sense of yelling OH DELENN NO (1) at her (and at ase and selenak when available)) and, uh, late S4 and early S5 happened and then my yelling started getting a lot more "...she just said WHAT??"
In the season finale of S4, there's a whole scene where Lennier is troubled about what Ivanova said about unrequited love, and she cups Lennier's face tenderly in her hand and says to him, "All love is requited." WHAT. NO. YOU DON'T SAY THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET MARRIED. TO A DIFFERENT GUY. I was like, well, she obviously can't mean it the way it sounds, and also she can't possibly know that he's in love with her?? Even though Lennier's crush is so obvious that everyone knows about it?
But he is in love with her, so this all (coupled with Sheridan and Delenn actually getting married) causes Lennier to go slightly insane! But because he is a responsible young Minbari, in 5x02, he does the very sensible thing of putting in for a transfer from B5.
So then we get a scene where Sheridan has just learned that Lennier is going away from B5 because of him, which he already suspected because Lennier's crush on Delenn is so large it can be SEEN FROM SPACE. BY ALIENS. (Sheridan being the alien in question.) And then we get this gem!
Sheridan: Heh, on Earth, we say, "Three's a crowd!"
Delenn: On Minbar, three is a sacred number!
Me: ...
Sheridan: ...
Me: Did... I hear that right?? Are you proposing a threesome, Delenn??
Sheridan: Well, I don't think I'm ready to handle that one, Delenn.
Me: SHERIDAN THINKS SO TOO. OMG.
Me: DO I NEED TO HAVE A NEW DYSFUNCTIONAL OT3. MAYBE.
Me: ALSO DO I NEED TO REWORK MY ENTIRE CONCEPTION OF MINBARI SOCIETY TO INCLUDE A LOT MORE POLYAMORY
Okay. I actually don't think that JMS intended the OT3 seriously (although if he did and this is the endgame I will laugh so hard). So. My new theory after watching this episode is that Delenn knows exactly how Lennier feels about her. And she's in love with him too. And when she said "All love is requited" she was just speaking the truth about how she felt about him.
Now, I don't think she wants to have sex with Lennier (2), because Sheridan is her guy and she wouldn't do what both of them would regard as a betrayal. And she's been pushing all of this to the back of her head because what she really wants, but won't admit to herself, is to have it all -- and she did manage that for a season or two. She wants Sheridan, who will be half of Interstellar Minbari-Human Power Couple and will additionally assuage her guilt about the war. But she also wants Lennier, who will do anything she says, who provides emotional support and devotion without ever asking for anything -- okay, yeah, I did go back to the Minbar episodes and that's literally what she says to Neroon about Lennier: "He's been a light for my footsteps, never asking, only giving" (3) -- he is the perfect and perfectly safe knight sans reproche, he won't ever ask from her anything she's not willing to give. But she wants to have that closeness, that intimacy, with Lennier that you would generally consider you'd have with a spouse -- but that is hard for her to have with Sheridan because, being non-Minbari, he really doesn't get her on a fundamental level that Lennier does. And Lennier is a safe person to have that with, because he won't be messy about asking to take the relationship any farther than she wants to take it, given that she really doesn't want to make it an overtly physical relationship.
In other words, she's having an emotional affair with Lennier.
Apart from it not being fair to Sheridan (though I don't think he realizes it's going on), I feel this relationship is deeply, deeply damaging and unfair to Lennier. There is a reason why superior/subordinate relationships are frowned upon! Delenn is using her position as his superior to basically trap him in a relationship where she is taking advantage of and sort of conflating his subordinate duties and his crush. Including, I must add, HAVING HIM ACT AS A RITUAL WITNESS TO HER AND SHERIDAN HAVING SEX and apparently thinking this is A-OK.
Until he snaps and asks for a transfer, anyway! Except that then, as he's leaving, he's all "I'm yours forever, Delenn, heart, body, and soul," and instead of telling him gently that he can't say things like that to her any more (or even better, "I mean this in the nicest way, but stop being ridiculous, Lennier!"), she just stands there and gazes at him soulfully, so, like, even though he leaves B5 in this episode, I am not really all that hopeful that he's actually escaped her gravitational pull and will meditate and fight his way to happiness or get himself a found family or else find some nice Minbari priest who isn't already married to settle down with.
I understand later in S5 is more Minbari stuff, so I look forward to having my mind changed then or having more OH DELENN NO moments. :) Or maybe both!
(Please do not spoil me for anything past 5x02!)
(1) I know it's being played for laughs in the episode, but seriously Sheridan should have dumped her after the second time she was all "Oh ha ha let me keep ANOTHER secret from you, after we had all that fallout and negative consequences from the first time!" including stupid petty secrets, like "hey, I could have told you about that Minbari ritual beforehand, but I of course didn't!"
(2) Though Lennier and Delenn do, in my opinion, have more chemistry than she and Sheridan -- sorry Sheridan -- I actually think I may perceive it this way because I can see her trying to be Human-attractive to him, which is on some level putting on an act/mask, whereas what I see between Delenn and Lennier, once I finally realized what I was seeing was attraction, is a more true, or at least more natural, version of how she acts when she's attracted to someone. (I'm really in awe of Mira Furlan, by the way, of putting in all this nuance to the way she acts.)
(3) I wonder now if this is the moment where she became aware of her feelings for Lennier. Though she was kind of too busy at the moment to do anything about it.
ase and selenak when available)) and, uh, late S4 and early S5 happened and then my yelling started getting a lot more "...she just said WHAT??"In the season finale of S4, there's a whole scene where Lennier is troubled about what Ivanova said about unrequited love, and she cups Lennier's face tenderly in her hand and says to him, "All love is requited." WHAT. NO. YOU DON'T SAY THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET MARRIED. TO A DIFFERENT GUY. I was like, well, she obviously can't mean it the way it sounds, and also she can't possibly know that he's in love with her?? Even though Lennier's crush is so obvious that everyone knows about it?
But he is in love with her, so this all (coupled with Sheridan and Delenn actually getting married) causes Lennier to go slightly insane! But because he is a responsible young Minbari, in 5x02, he does the very sensible thing of putting in for a transfer from B5.
So then we get a scene where Sheridan has just learned that Lennier is going away from B5 because of him, which he already suspected because Lennier's crush on Delenn is so large it can be SEEN FROM SPACE. BY ALIENS. (Sheridan being the alien in question.) And then we get this gem!
Sheridan: Heh, on Earth, we say, "Three's a crowd!"
Delenn: On Minbar, three is a sacred number!
Me: ...
Sheridan: ...
Me: Did... I hear that right?? Are you proposing a threesome, Delenn??
Sheridan: Well, I don't think I'm ready to handle that one, Delenn.
Me: SHERIDAN THINKS SO TOO. OMG.
Me: DO I NEED TO HAVE A NEW DYSFUNCTIONAL OT3. MAYBE.
Me: ALSO DO I NEED TO REWORK MY ENTIRE CONCEPTION OF MINBARI SOCIETY TO INCLUDE A LOT MORE POLYAMORY
Okay. I actually don't think that JMS intended the OT3 seriously (although if he did and this is the endgame I will laugh so hard). So. My new theory after watching this episode is that Delenn knows exactly how Lennier feels about her. And she's in love with him too. And when she said "All love is requited" she was just speaking the truth about how she felt about him.
Now, I don't think she wants to have sex with Lennier (2), because Sheridan is her guy and she wouldn't do what both of them would regard as a betrayal. And she's been pushing all of this to the back of her head because what she really wants, but won't admit to herself, is to have it all -- and she did manage that for a season or two. She wants Sheridan, who will be half of Interstellar Minbari-Human Power Couple and will additionally assuage her guilt about the war. But she also wants Lennier, who will do anything she says, who provides emotional support and devotion without ever asking for anything -- okay, yeah, I did go back to the Minbar episodes and that's literally what she says to Neroon about Lennier: "He's been a light for my footsteps, never asking, only giving" (3) -- he is the perfect and perfectly safe knight sans reproche, he won't ever ask from her anything she's not willing to give. But she wants to have that closeness, that intimacy, with Lennier that you would generally consider you'd have with a spouse -- but that is hard for her to have with Sheridan because, being non-Minbari, he really doesn't get her on a fundamental level that Lennier does. And Lennier is a safe person to have that with, because he won't be messy about asking to take the relationship any farther than she wants to take it, given that she really doesn't want to make it an overtly physical relationship.
In other words, she's having an emotional affair with Lennier.
Apart from it not being fair to Sheridan (though I don't think he realizes it's going on), I feel this relationship is deeply, deeply damaging and unfair to Lennier. There is a reason why superior/subordinate relationships are frowned upon! Delenn is using her position as his superior to basically trap him in a relationship where she is taking advantage of and sort of conflating his subordinate duties and his crush. Including, I must add, HAVING HIM ACT AS A RITUAL WITNESS TO HER AND SHERIDAN HAVING SEX and apparently thinking this is A-OK.
Until he snaps and asks for a transfer, anyway! Except that then, as he's leaving, he's all "I'm yours forever, Delenn, heart, body, and soul," and instead of telling him gently that he can't say things like that to her any more (or even better, "I mean this in the nicest way, but stop being ridiculous, Lennier!"), she just stands there and gazes at him soulfully, so, like, even though he leaves B5 in this episode, I am not really all that hopeful that he's actually escaped her gravitational pull and will meditate and fight his way to happiness or get himself a found family or else find some nice Minbari priest who isn't already married to settle down with.
I understand later in S5 is more Minbari stuff, so I look forward to having my mind changed then or having more OH DELENN NO moments. :) Or maybe both!
(Please do not spoil me for anything past 5x02!)
(1) I know it's being played for laughs in the episode, but seriously Sheridan should have dumped her after the second time she was all "Oh ha ha let me keep ANOTHER secret from you, after we had all that fallout and negative consequences from the first time!" including stupid petty secrets, like "hey, I could have told you about that Minbari ritual beforehand, but I of course didn't!"
(2) Though Lennier and Delenn do, in my opinion, have more chemistry than she and Sheridan -- sorry Sheridan -- I actually think I may perceive it this way because I can see her trying to be Human-attractive to him, which is on some level putting on an act/mask, whereas what I see between Delenn and Lennier, once I finally realized what I was seeing was attraction, is a more true, or at least more natural, version of how she acts when she's attracted to someone. (I'm really in awe of Mira Furlan, by the way, of putting in all this nuance to the way she acts.)
(3) I wonder now if this is the moment where she became aware of her feelings for Lennier. Though she was kind of too busy at the moment to do anything about it.
