18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 37

[cahn]

More diaries of our favorite 18th-century Prussian diary-keeper have been unearthed and have been synopsized!

January 18th: Blessed be thou to me! Under your light, my Prince Heinrich was born!

Comments

Dead or alive

[mildred_of_midgard]

I'm pretty sure I've brought this up, but I'm going to bring it up again, because it's something I feel doesn't get talked about enough, either by historians (especially ones like Luh, who are all "There's no way Fritz could lose this battle with FW! FW couldn't realistically disinherit him because the Holy Roman Empire had RULES!"), or even in salon, where we talk about how Fritz offered his life in place of Katte's but not his crown, not until the last minute, because Fritz took a gamble that FW wouldn't issue a death sentence. Which is true as far as the official punishment goes. But.

The orders FW gave to the guy in charge of transporting Fritz from Wesel to Küstrin include this line:

You are thus bound and obliged to deliver the arrested living or dead to the aforementioned Küstrin. If even the unhoped-for case should arise, that someone at some point wants to make off with him [Fritz], and you are not in a position to prevent this with a larger force, you shall see that those others don't receive him other than dead.

So, you know, if Uncle George *had* sent a rescue force, Fritz could easily have lost this encounter, Luh. Even by your definition of losing (which is rather different than salon's).

I'm also always struck by these lines:

[His guards] should have good pistols and swords

You shall take all humanly possible precautions on this trip that the prince doesn't escape...If he has to relieve himself, then this must happen in an open field, where you can see far all around, and where there are no hedges or shrubs.

Now, as we've seen, there were other people in the 18th century (like his grandfather George I) who didn't like to get undressed or answer a call of nature when servants were around. So maybe Fritz's bodily modesty that gets remarked on as unusual for the time is unrelated, and maybe it even predates 1730. But I can't help wondering if having to relieve yourself in a wide open field with all eyes and possibly pistols trained on you was maybe traumatic.

(Still no signs of secret libraries, but in the battle between German font and ibuprofen, the font has been winning all day, so I'm going to take a break in hopes this headache subsides.)

Re: Dead or alive

[selenak]

So, you know, if Uncle George *had* sent a rescue force, Fritz could easily have lost this encounter, Luh. Even by your definition of losing (which is rather different than salon's).

Indeed. I guess Luh would argue that this applied only to a very limited time space, i.e. the way to Küstrin, and that Fritz was playing the long game. Even so: dead is dead. You bet that those soldiers who just saw that even an officer from an old family like Katte got punished for planning desertion would obey a direct royal order over sparing the life of the Crown Prince, especially since the later wasn't the only male heir.

But I can't help wondering if having to relieve yourself in a wide open field with all eyes and possibly pistols trained on you was maybe traumatic.

No kidding. Incidentally, that's one of the things I credit Der Thronfolger with - they do show Fritz was never alone, even under those circumstances, though in that case it's him and Not!Robert Keith while he's relieving himself and Fritz drops the "btw, get me a horse!" bomb. But as with the scene with child!Fritz and the people sleeping with him in the same room, it's a good way to get across that as a prince, he's hardly ever alone - even before attempting to desert. After, there's the staring at the trip, and also the utter lack of privacy the first few months in Küstrin - the servants he was given there not being allowed to speak with him would make it more alienating, not less.

This said, there's always the chance that somewhere in the SD/FW correspondence there#s the buried remark little Fritz already doesn't like being undressed etc. - all things are possible. But unless someone, probably felis, discovers it, I think your theory has much merit.

Re: Dead or alive

[mildred_of_midgard]

You bet that those soldiers who just saw that even an officer from an old family like Katte got punished for planning desertion would obey a direct royal order over sparing the life of the Crown Prince

What do you think would have happened *before* they saw Katte got punished, on the way from Wesel to Küstrin when FW gave those "dead or alive" orders? If there had been a rescue attempt from Uncle George mid-August, would the Prussian officers have killed Fritz? It only takes one person to fire the shot...

especially since the later wasn't the only male heir.

Ooh, good point about the spares.

someone, probably felis

Lol, I like how we all know Felis is the likeliest detective here!

Re: Dead or alive

[cahn]

:( As you like to say, therapy for everyone!!