18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 34

[cahn]

And including Emperor Joseph II!

from Derek Beales: Joseph II, Volume 2: Against the World, 1780 - 1790:

Joseph's alleged comment to Mozart about the Entführung, "Too many notes", has been taken as evidence of his ignorance. But he probably said something like, "Too beautiful for our ears, and monstrous many notes." It is always necessary to bear in mind, when appraising the emperor's remarks, his peculiar brand of humor or sarcasm. He was usually getting at someone. And he did not use the royal "we". The ears in question were those of the Viennese audience, whom he was mocking for their limited appreciation of Mozart's elaborate music.

(though not gonna lie, I think it is a LOT of notes)

Comments

Re: Ekaterina and Massie: up to Peter III's death

[mildred_of_midgard]

So I finished S1 of Ekaterina, and the corresponding chapters of Massie! I will keep going in Massie, not particularly motivated to keep going on Ektaterina at this point.

Same reaction I had!

-I guess I should go look up something else on Peter III so I can see a different account not wholly based on the memoirs of his ex. Ekaterina may be nicer to him than Massie, but that... isn't saying much?

As you know, I rec alley's write-ups on this! I think I would have had less sympathy toward Peter III in Ekaterina had I come to them cold without reading alley's interpretations.

But in Ekaterina I thought they both made Liza likeable (if in a certain awkward way that showed why not everyone did like her) and showed why Peter might be attracted to her.

Alley has a whole write-up on that too! Look for it if you're interested, I thought it was one of their most interesting write-ups. Made me ship them!

-Razumovsky continues to be my favorite! His plotline at the very end where he burns the marriage certificate and the will is awesome.

Same!

But one thing the show gets right is that he didn't want to play the game of thrones, in which you win or you die.

Me: You are the only sane person on this show!

Normally I go for the ruthless ones, but none of the ambitious characters pushed my buttons, so sane and well-written + well-acted Razumovsky got my vote for favorite in this show.

Re: Ekaterina and Massie: up to Peter III's death

[cahn]

*nods* I did read alley's writeups before watching and they were very helpful! I think I read their writeup on show!Liza too, although I didn't agree with a lot of what they said there -- I don't think Liza was really all that different from early Ekaterina in the show, except possibly in being more sanguine towards Peter's smallpox scars (but it helped that she saw him for the first time once they weren't quite so gross), I think the big difference was (in the show, at least) that she wasn't someone his aunt picked for him.

Normally I go for the ruthless ones, but none of the ambitious characters pushed my buttons, so sane and well-written + well-acted Razumovsky got my vote for favorite in this show.

He was well-written and well-acted! <3

I was/am really enjoying Catherine in Massie, so I think that there's something specifically about Ekaterina's Catherine that didn't appeal to me. (In fact, I think she wasn't ruthless enough in the show until the very end! Although at the end they did position her as knowing quite well she couldn't leave Peter -- or Ivan! -- alive, which I thought was interesting. And yes, I've now read to the bit in Massie where Ivan actually dies, but I thought it made a lot of thematic sense that they moved that up in the show.)

Re: Ekaterina and Massie: up to Peter III's death

[mildred_of_midgard]

although I didn't agree with a lot of what they said there -- I don't think Liza was really all that different from early Ekaterina in the show

Oh, interesting. I could see some of the differences alley pointed out and agreed with them. But I can see where you might not!

In fact, I think she wasn't ruthless enough in the show

Yeah, agreed. That was part of why I couldn't latch onto her, she did come across as too naive, in a way obviously meant not to risk losing audience sympathy, for me as well.

And yes, I've now read to the bit in Massie where Ivan actually dies, but I thought it made a lot of thematic sense that they moved that up in the show.)

Agreed. And it's awesome that you're reading this on your own! Saves me so much time explaining! :D (I do miss having the kind of time I did when I was writing several thousand words a day in salon, but I like mostly feeling better and also having more money and also being *this close* to being able to read in German. :D Hopefully once I can read German and don't have to spend 100% of my free time studying it, I can read and explain lots more things that I couldn't before!)

I was/am really enjoying Catherine in Massie, so I think that there's something specifically about Ekaterina's Catherine that didn't appeal to me.

Also, yes, same and same.