cahn | 18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 34

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And including Emperor Joseph II!

from Derek Beales: Joseph II, Volume 2: Against the World, 1780 - 1790:

Joseph's alleged comment to Mozart about the Entführung, "Too many notes", has been taken as evidence of his ignorance. But he probably said something like, "Too beautiful for our ears, and monstrous many notes." It is always necessary to bear in mind, when appraising the emperor's remarks, his peculiar brand of humor or sarcasm. He was usually getting at someone. And he did not use the royal "we". The ears in question were those of the Viennese audience, whom he was mocking for their limited appreciation of Mozart's elaborate music.

(though not gonna lie, I think it is a LOT of notes)

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From:

cahn

Ah, I am glad you tracked this down! And that makes sense re: Goldstone -- her flaws seem to be more in the way of taking sources too uncritically, oversimplifying, or jumping to conclusions, not so much making up stuff.

I kind of hope that it isn't true (surely we'd have more evidence than that? he would have written to someone about it, even obliquely?) and it does seem very possible that -- well, she's talking about what she heard secondhand and years after the fact, so there might be some game of telephone going on. (I guess that would make more sense to me than her actually making it up.)

From:

selenak

Yes, I hope it's not literally true as well. I mean, if Isabella had lived, then I would have wished for her not having to go through her life having to fake love, but since she was dead, and since Joseph's life was depressing enough as it is, finding out your wife really loved your sister and tolerated you at best, when the memories of those three years and then the next few with his daughter before she died as well were something he clung to would just be extra cruel. At the same time, I don't think Caroline Pilcher made it up, either, and a game of telephone seems at least possible. Maybe Maria Christina at some point during the many arguments she and Joseph were to have said something like "She didn't really love you anyway, as I know, and if you've read the letters in the Albert-published form, you put two and two together and conclude, aha, she must have shown him the letters.

Or maybe she did show him the letters. We have to at least consider it possible now. But if so, you'd think Albert (to whom she was already married by then) would have mentioned this in his memoirs, and that would be what people would quote, not a second hand account. (Then again: haven't read Albert's memoirs, just quotes from same in MT and Joseph biographies.)

From:

cahn

But surely Beale or Stollberg-Rilinger would have found Albert's memoirs??

(Also, as a result of having to figure out how to spell Stollberg-Rilinger, I looked her up and Maria Theresia is finally out in English! Though I wonder if I'm up to something dry yet... possibly not. And of course I'm still working on Catherine right now. But at least I suppose I'll get the sample and see what it's like :) )