Me: Noooo. Why are all you guys so easily embarrassed, but then start wars that destroy the primary sources? SIGH.
HAHAHAHA, I laughed out loud. :D
But let's remind everyone of the juicy quote that would definitely have embarrassed your average 19th-early 20th century editor, but which Blanning is happy to reproduce in 2016:
[Seckendorff Jr.] recorded in June 1735: “Friedrich Wartensleben has confided in me that Junior [Frederick] fucks his wife in the afternoon and says that she has a lovely body and a beautiful arse.” In the following month Wartensleben confirmed that Frederick was sleeping with her.
Blanning also adds, in relation to the "I can't embrace my wife with passion" discussion with Manteuffel,
Seckendorf recorded this exchange as if it had been a conversation which Manteuffel had then told him about. In reality, there had been an exchange of letters. On 26 August 1736 Manteuffel had written to Frederick to urge him to produce an heir, adding that this was what all his friends wanted. He also expressed the hope that the settled life at Rheinsberg—to which Frederick and Elizabeth Christine had just moved—would be more conducive to conception than the previous short and hurried encounters necessitated by Frederick’s garrison duties at Ruppin and his wife’s residence at Berlin. In his reply, dated Rheinsberg, 23 September, Frederick made no mention of his feelings for his wife, merely writing: “I am very obliged to you for your concern about my propagation, and I have the same destiny as the stags who are presently in rut; in nine months from now there may happen what you ask for.” Even if it did not, there was nothing to worry about: “Kingdoms always find successors and there has never been a case of a throne remaining empty.” Had there been a conversation such as that recorded by Seckendorf as well as this exchange of letters? All that can be stated with certainty is that Frederick wished Manteuffel—and thus his father—to know that he was doing his best to produce an heir.
I have to say, proactively writing:
Even if it did not, there was nothing to worry about
has always made me think that he was doing the bare minimum, if that. Set those expectations low, Fritz!
Laying it on thick is pretty much standard for Algarotti or indeed Suhm in the later 30s when writing to Fritz, isn’t it?
Preuss doesn't give us any letters from Algarotti until 1742, when he'd already done his first Frexit and was in Dresden (and they only met in August or September 1739, so there wasn't a whole lot of time for letters in the late 1730s), but Suhm, GOD YES. To the point where only looking at his actions gives me any confidence he wasn't just flattering out of self-interest: most especially his decision to set off for Berlin, even knowing that the trip would be detrimental to his health (as he later wrote to Fritz, and as it turned out).
Of course, he’s also exactly the kind of smooth, wily and bribery spreading envoy showing up in the Anti Machiavell under the “not to be trusted, though definitely to be employed against others” headline,
Yes indeed. This is why I was going to use him as my Poirot stand-in in the "everyone stabs FW" AU. ;) He may not be able to get everyone to confide in him, but he doesn't need to--he has spies!
Even if it did not, there was nothing to worry about
has always made me think that he was doing the bare minimum, if that. Set those expectations low, Fritz!
Definitely! Not the worst strategy I guess.
ahahaha, I just always imagine him doing the deed once and being like, "welp, okay! Seems to have worked for my parents, apparently worked for Wilhelmine, hopefully it works for me, not doing that again!"
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cahn
Re: Reports from the Dresden State Archive - Fritz and Manteuffel
Date: 2022-01-10 11:29 pm (UTC)HAHAHAHA, I laughed out loud. :D
But let's remind everyone of the juicy quote that would definitely have embarrassed your average 19th-early 20th century editor, but which Blanning is happy to reproduce in 2016:
[Seckendorff Jr.] recorded in June 1735: “Friedrich Wartensleben has confided in me that Junior [Frederick] fucks his wife in the afternoon and says that she has a lovely body and a beautiful arse.” In the following month Wartensleben confirmed that Frederick was sleeping with her.
Blanning also adds, in relation to the "I can't embrace my wife with passion" discussion with Manteuffel,
Seckendorf recorded this exchange as if it had been a conversation which Manteuffel had then told him about. In reality, there had been an exchange of letters. On 26 August 1736 Manteuffel had written to Frederick to urge him to produce an heir, adding that this was what all his friends wanted. He also expressed the hope that the settled life at Rheinsberg—to which Frederick and Elizabeth Christine had just moved—would be more conducive to conception than the previous short and hurried encounters necessitated by Frederick’s garrison duties at Ruppin and his wife’s residence at Berlin. In his reply, dated Rheinsberg, 23 September, Frederick made no mention of his feelings for his wife, merely writing: “I am very obliged to you for your concern about my propagation, and I have the same destiny as the stags who are presently in rut; in nine months from now there may happen what you ask for.” Even if it did not, there was nothing to worry about: “Kingdoms always find successors and there has never been a case of a throne remaining empty.” Had there been a conversation such as that recorded by Seckendorf as well as this exchange of letters? All that can be stated with certainty is that Frederick wished Manteuffel—and thus his father—to know that he was doing his best to produce an heir.
I have to say, proactively writing:
Even if it did not, there was nothing to worry about
has always made me think that he was doing the bare minimum, if that. Set those expectations low, Fritz!
Laying it on thick is pretty much standard for Algarotti or indeed Suhm in the later 30s when writing to Fritz, isn’t it?
Preuss doesn't give us any letters from Algarotti until 1742, when he'd already done his first Frexit and was in Dresden (and they only met in August or September 1739, so there wasn't a whole lot of time for letters in the late 1730s), but Suhm, GOD YES. To the point where only looking at his actions gives me any confidence he wasn't just flattering out of self-interest: most especially his decision to set off for Berlin, even knowing that the trip would be detrimental to his health (as he later wrote to Fritz, and as it turned out).
Of course, he’s also exactly the kind of smooth, wily and bribery spreading envoy showing up in the Anti Machiavell under the “not to be trusted, though definitely to be employed against others” headline,
Yes indeed. This is why I was going to use him as my Poirot stand-in in the "everyone stabs FW" AU. ;) He may not be able to get everyone to confide in him, but he doesn't need to--he has spies!
Re: Reports from the Dresden State Archive - Fritz and Manteuffel
Date: 2022-01-11 01:28 pm (UTC)has always made me think that he was doing the bare minimum, if that. Set those expectations low, Fritz!
Definitely! Not the worst strategy I guess.
And yeah, we do have more sources on the EC/sex part, but what I hadn't heard of before: the 1740 "bat parties". Did anybody else mention those?
Re: Reports from the Dresden State Archive - Fritz and Manteuffel
Date: 2022-01-12 03:57 pm (UTC)Re: Reports from the Dresden State Archive - Fritz and Manteuffel
Date: 2022-01-13 05:30 am (UTC)has always made me think that he was doing the bare minimum, if that. Set those expectations low, Fritz!
Definitely! Not the worst strategy I guess.
ahahaha, I just always imagine him doing the deed once and being like, "welp, okay! Seems to have worked for my parents, apparently worked for Wilhelmine, hopefully it works for me, not doing that again!"
Re: Reports from the Dresden State Archive - Fritz and Manteuffel
Date: 2022-01-13 03:13 pm (UTC)