cahn | 18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 33

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cahn

And, I mean, it doesn't have to be just 18th century characters, either!

(also, waiting for Yuletide!)

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From:

felis

(and in fact included in my Suhm write-up in Rheinsberg)

Oh, I must have missed/forgotten that one. It's one of the stories that shows up fairly often in descriptions of Fritz' childhood, but usually without a source.

anecdote Selena had told us about in her Morgenstern write-up

Ah, yeah, I dimly remembered that there was something, but not that it was the exact same something. Always nice to get double confirmations from primary sources.

From:

selenak

Yep, especially since I was undeservedly sceptical on Morgenstern for a couple of things (though not the boarhunting and selling story, that one sounded exactly like the kind of casual antisemitism which wouldn't get FW censored even by contemporaries who hated him; on the "he had a crush on Caroline and this was an extra reason for hating on G2 who did nothing to deserve either his three kingdoms or the girl" front). (Otoh, I and dissertation writer Leinweber stand by our complete scepticism on the Morgenstern story of Sophie Charlotte telling FW he was illegtimate and not the son of weak F1, and FW shortly after his succession when drunk saying "how can you believe I'm the son of this weak man?" to his generals until someone points out to him if he's not the son of F1, he has no claim to the throne at all. FW certainly would not needed the reminder, and SC was the sister-in-law of a woman who got locked up for life for adultery, who knew very well what a incredibly loaded and important subject legitimacy is. Even if she had cheated on F1, there's no way she would tell her famously lacking any self control kid that.)

It's one of the stories that shows up fairly often in descriptions of Fritz' childhood, but usually without a source.

I hadn't known it happened when Grumbkow's son was baptized, either. And following your link, I see the whole event ended in drunken FW and Grumbkow smashing all the porcellain together. Let's hope that either SD or Madame de Roucoulles comforted kid!Fritz and that someone hugged Madame Grumbkow, too, because a less good thing to wish for one's baby's baptism celebration than the King turning it in an occasion for child maltreatment and, together with your husband, smashing all the (incredibly expensive, Prussia didn't yet have its own manufacture) porcellain is hard to imagine.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

on the "he had a crush on Caroline and this was an extra reason for hating on G2 who did nothing to deserve either his three kingdoms or the girl" front

And also that Rottembourg in Spain longed for FW's Prussia. We're sorry, Morgenstern! We didn't know about the frog!

Let's hope that either SD or Madame de Roucoulles comforted kid!Fritz

Agreed. Or Wilhelmine! Out of curiosity, would Fritz still have been interacting much with Madame de Rocoulle when he was twelve? I know he kept in touch with her and cherished her when he was as an adult, but I'm not sure how much contact they had in those later childhood and teen years, after he was taken away from her at age seven (as per normal for boys). But I know she was kept on governessing the younger siblings after he turned seven, so maybe she would have had an opportunity for comforting him still?

And yes, poor Madame Grumbkow!

From:

cahn

:( Yeah, I just... at Grumbkow's baby's baptism?? :( Poor Madame Grumbkow!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Oh, hey, I noticed these two volumes have other interesting things! I used up all my font-reading ability yesterday (and I had to take ibuprofen for my headache afterward :P) on the arrest of the Queen of Spain in 1724, since I had *just* been posting about her, but I see there's also a chapter on Klement, one on Königsmarck, the Count St. Germain, Liselotte, plus things that may only be of interest to me, like Don Carlos in 1740, and things that may or may not turn out to be interesting, like the mysteriously titled "A scene from Poland in 1735."

Someone should check out at *least* Klement!

ETA: Turns out I was confused. There are (at least) *four* volumes: the original 2-volume set and the subsequent 2-volume set. What

felis linked is volume 1 of the second set. What I turned up on Google Books was the first 2-volume set. Publishers, the numbers 3 and 4 were invented for situations like this.

I will get these into the library, but it's going to be a busy week at work.

(Also, Felis's volume has a chapter on the Marquis de la Chétardie, whom the Saxons think is the craftiest of the crafty. This is of course because the Saxons were plumping for their candidate, August III, in the War of the Polish Succession on Chétardie's arrival in Berlin, and the French, whom Chétardie represented, were advocating for Stanislaus. FW, of course, managed to support both sides, because his foreign policy was like that. (I'm checking out the Mecklenburg book, and when he joined the Anglo-French alliance of Hanover in 1725 and then Seckendorff lured him back to the Austrian alliance of Vienna in 1726, FW was apparently passing information that he got from his Anglo-French alliance over to the Austrians. Which the allies of Hanover knew, and they let him do it because they were hoping to win him back.)

Also also, I had a look at the first page or so of the Königsmarck chapter, and it looks like the editor turned up Maurice de Saxe's account of what happened to his uncle and is printing it here. I have not had time to read his account, because I suck at German, but the editor seems to be hedging a lot on how accurate it is. I am entertained by the fact that the editor had to translate it into German, because Maurice's French was *so* bad the editor didn't want to inflict it on the reader. He says maybe it got better with time. :P Maurice (or Moritz), remember, was the illegitimate son of August the Strong by Aurora von Königsmarck, sister of murdered Philipp von Königsmarck, and Maurice entered French service and became renowned as a general there.)

Edited Date: 2022-01-11 01:27 am (UTC)