Woooow those letters. Those are amazing. Mixed feelings, much? Why is every letter between Fritz and Voltaire or by one about the other pure gold? Wow.
Do you remember it was between you and Algarotti who was going to run off first?
Lol, I had a job once where we were making bets as to who was going to leave in what order. :P
It is true that I have a very singular correspondence
Singular is one way to describe it!
because I was missing some "Voltaire totally doesn't care about Fritz anymore, why would you think that??" in my life.
Do you remember it was between you and Algarotti who was going to run off first?
Lol, I had a job once where we were making bets as to who was going to leave in what order. :P
Nicolai: This why they were all unworthy. Only D'Argens was worthy!
BTW, who did run off first, Darget or Algarotti? (Not counting Algarotti's first bolter to the fleshpots of Saxony.)
I can imagine the table round having a secret pool on this question, absolutely. The Keith brothers, being Jacobite exiles, have no intention of leaving their gainful employment so aren't candidates, but I'm sure they placed bets!
(BTW, ever since you told us the Ice Palace Wedding tale, I can see why James Keith, his excellent position in the Russian army not withstanding, might have concluded Fritz was a better monarch to serve than a Czarina who might take it into her head to marry him off next....
According to Trier, it was Darget. He left in March 1752 (for health reasons, tried and true I guess), and while Algarotti apparently started to ask for permission to leave around the same time, he only got it in 1753. (Not that Fritz thought Darget wouldn't return, Darget only got his official leave in 1753 as well. Also, Fritz ends quite a few of his letters to Darget with "piss well", which probably tells you what the health reasons were. :P He also gossips about Voltaire (from he's the meanest madman I've ever met in 1752 to tell me everything and anything you hear about him! in 1754), just like Voltaire gossips about Fritz to Darget a couple years later.)
might have concluded Fritz was a better monarch to serve than a Czarina who might take it into her head to marry him off next
Ah, but that Czarina died in 1740, and Keith only left in 1747.
(Which I remember because I came across it recently, when I looked into our other Lt.Col. Keith, Robert, spouse of Suhm's daughter. Who, by the way, was with his cousin James in Russian service and followed him to Prussia a bit later, in 1748. Which also means that any references to a Lt.Col. Keith in Berlin before 1748 = definitely not Robert. He apparently stayed until 1758, though, when James died, and then left (in the middle of the war no less!) to become a colonel and later a general in Danish service.)
Which also means that any references to a Lt.Col. Keith in Berlin before 1748 = definitely not Robert.
Exxxxcellent, then we can start including the Peter & Knobelsdorff cooperation into the official chronology.
Do we have memoirs from Darget, btw? If so, I haven't come across them yet. His pov on everything from showing up in The Palladion to Valory to the entire Fritz/Voltaire saga ought to be fascinating.
Also, was Voltaire the only one whose official reason for leaving weren't "health reasons"?
Exxxxcellent, then we can start including the Peter & Knobelsdorff cooperation into the official chronology.
It's on my list for this weekend! Both rheinsberg and the chronology need the latest Peter findings incorporated.
Do we have memoirs from Darget, btw?
OH MAN I HOPE SO. I've had a hard time tracking anything on him down, though; though admittedly last time I tried was over a year ago, when we had fewer sources for tracking people down. Perhaps Detective felis will find something!
Also, was Voltaire the only one whose official reason for leaving weren't "health reasons"?
I'm pretty sure that was Voltaire's reason too. Fritz was like, "You don't have to lie, you can go any time you want."
He may quit my service whenever he chooses, he doesn’t need to use the pretext of taking the waters in Plombières, but might he have the goodness to return to me before he leaves, his contract, the key, the cross, and the volume of poetry I lent him; I should have been content had he and König merely attacked my works, I am happy to offer them up to those who enjoy denigrating the reputation of others; I have none of the lunacy or vanity of authors, and the cabals of literary folk seem to me the very pinnacle of vileness
re: Darget - I've never encountered any mention of Darget memoirs, only references to his correspondence with various people. Trier doesn't list any in the bibliographical notes for his letters either, so I'm inclined to say there aren't any. :(
According to Trier, it was Darget. He left in March 1752 (for health reasons, tried and true I guess), and while Algarotti apparently started to ask for permission to leave around the same time, he only got it in 1753.
Sweet, my memory was correct! I was going to say this, but with the caveat that it was from memory and I don't remember where I read this.
Ah, but that Czarina died in 1740, and Keith only left in 1747.
Now this I was going to say with far more confidence, or at least that the chronology only sort of works. Because the chronology, per Wikipedia, goes like this:
1730-1740: Anna Ivanovna Czarina. 1740, February: Ice palace wedding. 1740, October: Anna Ivanovna dies. Ivan VI becomes Czar and Anna Leopoldovna regent. 1741: James Keith participates in the coup that puts Elizaveta in power. 1741-1743: James Keith one of the main commanders in the Russo-Swedish war, occupies Finland, meets his mistress Eva Merthen. 1747: James Keith joins Fritz.
Now, I really wish I had a reliable source on what was going on in Russia at the time, because German wiki says:
Keith enjoyed the favor of the Empress Anna Ivanovna, who distinguished him several times and appointed general of the infantry. After the death of his patroness in 1740, his luck turned. In order to avoid the stalking [" Nachstellungen"--is she hitting on him?] of her successor Elisabeth and the intrigues of her Chancellor Alexei Pyotrovich Bestuschew, he finally asked for his release, which he was granted in July 1747.
, while English wiki has such howlers as
Frederick also travelled incognito with Keith throughout Germany and Hungary.
and
Frederick commemorated Keith on the Rheinsberg Obelisk
alongside interesting remarks as
Keith developed a game of chess for Frederick, life-sized, that the two would play
which I would like to know if they were true. (If he was incognito in Hungary, then he was *really* incognito, because I for one don't recall any incognito Fritz-in-Hungary stories, and we've seen how bad he is at incognito! Supposedly even in the Netherlands he was outed, although not as badly as Strasbourg.
German wiki predictably gets Heinrich as the creator of the Rheinsberg monument right, but I'm not sure how reliable it is on Elizaveta stalking James and Bestuschev's intriguing as James' motives for leaving, since German wiki relies on a 19th century German source (von Ense) as usual. (James' memoirs, remember, only go up to ~1735.) Btw, does Nachfolgerin mean "next successor but one"? Because German wiki is skipping Ivan. Understandably, but they are telescoping.
Anyway, contemporary Russian sources and modern scholarship comparable to what we've collected for Prussia would be greatly interesting to me. Did James Keith help put Elizaveta on the throne? I would like a better source on that.
To go back to our original topic, the reason I say the chronology only "sort of" works is that James may well have, after witnessing/hearing about the Ice Wedding, have been a little unnerved at the fact that the Russian czarinas had this much power over people. Elizaveta famously never executed anyone during her reign, but, a few years into her reign, nobody knows what she's going to do.
Also, speaking of James, I can't remember if I mentioned it when I first encountered it, but I recently ran into it again: the Prussian archives have a "manner of living of the King of Prussia" manuscript authored by James Keith. That's something I'd like to see!
Nachstellungen: yes, my first interpretation would be that she's hitting on him. But you're right, 19th century sources are less than reliable especially when it comes to female monarchs. Though I suppose sooner or later, I'll have work my way through Varnhagen von Ense's numerous Prussian biographies, though I am really interested only in the one about his wife, Rahel, who was one of the most compelling of Berlin salonnieres of her time.
LOL on Fritz commemorating anyone on the Rheinsberg Monument. And travelling through Hungary. Hey, this is a way for him getting captured that I haven't considered at all until now! I mean, sure, presumably these tours would have taken place between wars, not in war time, but wellllll....
See, Andrew Bisset, since you were such a James Keith fanboy, you should have written his biography as well, then we'd know more!
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-28 10:24 pm (UTC)Do you remember it was between you and Algarotti who was going to run off first?
Lol, I had a job once where we were making bets as to who was going to leave in what order. :P
It is true that I have a very singular correspondence
Singular is one way to describe it!
because I was missing some "Voltaire totally doesn't care about Fritz anymore, why would you think that??" in my life.
:DDDD
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-29 05:28 am (UTC)Lol, I had a job once where we were making bets as to who was going to leave in what order. :P
Nicolai: This why they were all unworthy. Only D'Argens was worthy!
BTW, who did run off first, Darget or Algarotti? (Not counting Algarotti's first bolter to the fleshpots of Saxony.)
I can imagine the table round having a secret pool on this question, absolutely. The Keith brothers, being Jacobite exiles, have no intention of leaving their gainful employment so aren't candidates, but I'm sure they placed bets!
(BTW, ever since you told us the Ice Palace Wedding tale, I can see why James Keith, his excellent position in the Russian army not withstanding, might have concluded Fritz was a better monarch to serve than a Czarina who might take it into her head to marry him off next....
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-30 10:17 am (UTC)According to Trier, it was Darget. He left in March 1752 (for health reasons, tried and true I guess), and while Algarotti apparently started to ask for permission to leave around the same time, he only got it in 1753. (Not that Fritz thought Darget wouldn't return, Darget only got his official leave in 1753 as well. Also, Fritz ends quite a few of his letters to Darget with "piss well", which probably tells you what the health reasons were. :P He also gossips about Voltaire (from he's the meanest madman I've ever met in 1752 to tell me everything and anything you hear about him! in 1754), just like Voltaire gossips about Fritz to Darget a couple years later.)
might have concluded Fritz was a better monarch to serve than a Czarina who might take it into her head to marry him off next
Ah, but that Czarina died in 1740, and Keith only left in 1747.
(Which I remember because I came across it recently, when I looked into our other Lt.Col. Keith, Robert, spouse of Suhm's daughter. Who, by the way, was with his cousin James in Russian service and followed him to Prussia a bit later, in 1748. Which also means that any references to a Lt.Col. Keith in Berlin before 1748 = definitely not Robert. He apparently stayed until 1758, though, when James died, and then left (in the middle of the war no less!) to become a colonel and later a general in Danish service.)
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-30 11:03 am (UTC)Exxxxcellent, then we can start including the Peter & Knobelsdorff cooperation into the official chronology.
Do we have memoirs from Darget, btw? If so, I haven't come across them yet. His pov on everything from showing up in The Palladion to Valory to the entire Fritz/Voltaire saga ought to be fascinating.
Also, was Voltaire the only one whose official reason for leaving weren't "health reasons"?
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-30 12:13 pm (UTC)It's on my list for this weekend! Both
Do we have memoirs from Darget, btw?
OH MAN I HOPE SO. I've had a hard time tracking anything on him down, though; though admittedly last time I tried was over a year ago, when we had fewer sources for tracking people down. Perhaps Detective
Also, was Voltaire the only one whose official reason for leaving weren't "health reasons"?
I'm pretty sure that was Voltaire's reason too. Fritz was like, "You don't have to lie, you can go any time you want."
He may quit my service whenever he chooses, he doesn’t need to use the pretext of taking the waters in Plombières, but might he have the goodness to return to me before he leaves, his contract, the key, the cross, and the volume of poetry I lent him; I should have been content had he and König merely attacked my works, I am happy to offer them up to those who enjoy denigrating the reputation of others; I have none of the lunacy or vanity of authors, and the cabals of literary folk seem to me the very pinnacle of vileness
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-30 01:33 pm (UTC)Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-30 12:11 pm (UTC)Sweet, my memory was correct! I was going to say this, but with the caveat that it was from memory and I don't remember where I read this.
Ah, but that Czarina died in 1740, and Keith only left in 1747.
Now this I was going to say with far more confidence, or at least that the chronology only sort of works. Because the chronology, per Wikipedia, goes like this:
1730-1740: Anna Ivanovna Czarina.
1740, February: Ice palace wedding.
1740, October: Anna Ivanovna dies. Ivan VI becomes Czar and Anna Leopoldovna regent.
1741: James Keith participates in the coup that puts Elizaveta in power.
1741-1743: James Keith one of the main commanders in the Russo-Swedish war, occupies Finland, meets his mistress Eva Merthen.
1747: James Keith joins Fritz.
Now, I really wish I had a reliable source on what was going on in Russia at the time, because German wiki says:
Keith enjoyed the favor of the Empress Anna Ivanovna, who distinguished him several times and appointed general of the infantry. After the death of his patroness in 1740, his luck turned. In order to avoid the stalking [" Nachstellungen"--is she hitting on him?] of her successor Elisabeth and the intrigues of her Chancellor Alexei Pyotrovich Bestuschew, he finally asked for his release, which he was granted in July 1747.
, while English wiki has such howlers as
Frederick also travelled incognito with Keith throughout Germany and Hungary.
and
Frederick commemorated Keith on the Rheinsberg Obelisk
alongside interesting remarks as
Keith developed a game of chess for Frederick, life-sized, that the two would play
which I would like to know if they were true. (If he was incognito in Hungary, then he was *really* incognito, because I for one don't recall any incognito Fritz-in-Hungary stories, and we've seen how bad he is at incognito! Supposedly even in the Netherlands he was outed, although not as badly as Strasbourg.
German wiki predictably gets Heinrich as the creator of the Rheinsberg monument right, but I'm not sure how reliable it is on Elizaveta stalking James and Bestuschev's intriguing as James' motives for leaving, since German wiki relies on a 19th century German source (von Ense) as usual. (James' memoirs, remember, only go up to ~1735.) Btw, does Nachfolgerin mean "next successor but one"? Because German wiki is skipping Ivan. Understandably, but they are telescoping.
Anyway, contemporary Russian sources and modern scholarship comparable to what we've collected for Prussia would be greatly interesting to me. Did James Keith help put Elizaveta on the throne? I would like a better source on that.
To go back to our original topic, the reason I say the chronology only "sort of" works is that James may well have, after witnessing/hearing about the Ice Wedding, have been a little unnerved at the fact that the Russian czarinas had this much power over people. Elizaveta famously never executed anyone during her reign, but, a few years into her reign, nobody knows what she's going to do.
Also, speaking of James, I can't remember if I mentioned it when I first encountered it, but I recently ran into it again: the Prussian archives have a "manner of living of the King of Prussia" manuscript authored by James Keith. That's something I'd like to see!
Re: Voltaire: will you stay or will you go?
Date: 2021-03-30 12:27 pm (UTC)LOL on Fritz commemorating anyone on the Rheinsberg Monument. And travelling through Hungary. Hey, this is a way for him getting captured that I haven't considered at all until now! I mean, sure, presumably these tours would have taken place between wars, not in war time, but wellllll....
See, Andrew Bisset, since you were such a James Keith fanboy, you should have written his biography as well, then we'd know more!