Given there was a war inbetween Peter's death and this entry, during which Berlin had been occupied twice, which is why Lehndorff's mother was taken in by Ariane during one of these events, I wouldn't be surprised if either new living space or just something to draw an income from would have been necessary.
Agreed that this could have been purely a source of income, but: we know that it wasn't a new gift from Fritz to Ariane during the war, because Lehndorff also mentions at Peter's death 9 years earlier that Fritz had given *Peter* the Jägerhof during his lifetime. That was how we knew that the Frau von Keith of 1765, and the Frau von Keith who took in Lehndorff's mother, was the same Frau von Keith who had been married to Peter. This was a source of confusion for a long time. As was the identity of the Jägerhof, which we learned about at Peter's death and could never find (it being ungoogleable) until we learned that it was turned into a bank in 1765.
Oh, wait, I just looked up Lehndorff at Peter's death, and he actually says "Wohnung":
Als lebenslängliche Wohnung gab ihm der König den Jägerhof, den auch seine Witwe behält.
You guys tell me, can "Wohnung" and "behält" mean just a source of income? "Keep" in English would be ambiguous to me--it could mean "provides for financially"--but "Wohnung" would have to be "property" rather than "dwelling."
Oh, wait, I think I found the Brüderstrasse property! This is cool, but I need breakfast.
Guys, one of you German readers go read this (it's short), otherwise I'll poke through it when I have time. Short version as best I can tell: Brüderstrasse 13, today the Nicolaihaus, owned by Frau von Knyphausen 1719-1747 and greatly expanded by her, sold in 1747. Purchased by Nicolai in 1788, who had it renovated by your guy Zelter, selenak.
So Peter was probably living there in 1744, but I'm suspicious that he was not after 1748 and maybe the address just didn't get updated. Although it's a good-sized property, so maybe he rented an apartment? But the Adresskalender is looking more and more confusing to me.
Oh, btw, this is a map of the city in 1710. The Jägerhof is off to the lower left of the walled city, just inside the customs wall, and you can see Brüderstrasse just the other side of the Spree.
I can't afford to do more than look very quickly, so I'll pass this over to felis. But my very quick look tells me that Frau von Knyphausen aquired the property from none other than the von Blaspiels, aka Manteuffel's recently locked up in Spandau and then released and exiled mistress and spy Frau von Blaspiel and her husband the fired Minister of War (whose job now was held by Herr von Knyphausen).
Also didn't Felis original discovery say that the "Frau von Knyphausen's house" description at some point disappears from the address as given in the Adress book? Which might go with her selling the property. To the owner of the porcelain factory that would later become KPM, I see. Anyway, tentative suggestion - Peter kept the address in a kind of work office capacity and had his mail going there?
The Frau v. Knyphausen bit actually stays until 1754, but the change in 1748 is from "Brüderstrasse" to "behind Brüderstrasse at the waterside", which fits a 1747 sale perfectly. So the question is, did she acquire a different house "behind Brüderstrasse etc" or is that supposed to be a synonym for the Jägerhof, which is on the other side of the water plus a block over and could have been called just that?
Ah, yes, now that I look more closely at your summary of the dates, it's:
1744-1747: "in der Brüderstrasse in der Frau v. Kniphausen Hause". 1748-1754: "in der Frau von Knyphausen Hause hinten am Wasser hinter der Brüderstrasse". 1755-1756: it's "his" house, without the Knyphausen mention, but the same description.
So yes, they moved from on the Brüderstrasse to behind the Brüderstrasse on the opposite side of (behind/beyond) the water (Spree)! So she was in fact living with them; I had been wondering about that when I wrote my fic.
So I guess she got the Jägerhof and then after she died, Fritz said Peter could stay as long as he lived, and then he said the same to Ariane after Peter died, and then he compensated her when he needed it again.
So now the question is: did Frau von Knyphausen die in 1751, as the internet tells me, or in 1754/1755, as the Adresskalender seems to indicate?
Other Knyphausen trivia:
Ariane's father, the foreign minister and former envoy (to Denmark, Spain, Vienna, France, and Russia, per Wikipedia!) who was involved in scheming against FW and in the English marriages, was in Venice at the same time as Pesne, was painted by Pesne, and it was this painting that so impressed F1 that he invited Pesne to his court.
One of Ariane's brothers was George Keith's successor as Fritz's envoy to France, right before the Seven Years' War. When the Diplomatic Revolution happened and the war started, he was recalled. Then he was sent to England instead, and he was the one who negotiated the subsidies with the Pitt government. He was recalled in disfavor when Bute took control and the subsidies stopped. Then he was supposed to be sent as envoy to Vienna after the war, but Fritz didn't pay enough, so he declined. He was married to a daughter of Frau von Wreech, the one Fritz courted with poetry and allegedly impregnated in his Küstrin days.
And! One of Ariane's sisters was married to Hertzberg! Meaning that even if my French was wrong yesterday, Envoy Son of Peter and Ariane was the nephew by marriage to Hertzberg. So between his uncle the envoy to France, England, and almost Vienna, and his uncle-by-marriage the Prussian minister of foreign affairs, I'm betting it was maternal connections that got him the Turin post. Horowski is right, you have to look at the maternal family connections! Peter never got to be an envoy to anywhere, as we know. :P But his brother-in-law got to negotiate the subsidies once Fritz actually had two fucks to give about diplomatic relations with England.
Frau von Knyphausen aquired the property from none other than the von Blaspiels, aka Manteuffel's recently locked up in Spandau and then released and exiled mistress and spy Frau von Blaspiel and her husband the fired Minister of War (whose job now was held by Herr von Knyphausen).
Ahh, nice! So wait, Blaspiel was fired and replaced by Knyphausen, who was fired in 1730--do we know who his replacement was?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 12:47 pm (UTC)Agreed that this could have been purely a source of income, but: we know that it wasn't a new gift from Fritz to Ariane during the war, because Lehndorff also mentions at Peter's death 9 years earlier that Fritz had given *Peter* the Jägerhof during his lifetime. That was how we knew that the Frau von Keith of 1765, and the Frau von Keith who took in Lehndorff's mother, was the same Frau von Keith who had been married to Peter. This was a source of confusion for a long time. As was the identity of the Jägerhof, which we learned about at Peter's death and could never find (it being ungoogleable) until we learned that it was turned into a bank in 1765.
Oh, wait, I just looked up Lehndorff at Peter's death, and he actually says "Wohnung":
Als lebenslängliche Wohnung gab ihm der König den Jägerhof, den auch seine Witwe behält.
You guys tell me, can "Wohnung" and "behält" mean just a source of income? "Keep" in English would be ambiguous to me--it could mean "provides for financially"--but "Wohnung" would have to be "property" rather than "dwelling."
Oh, wait, I think I found the Brüderstrasse property! This is cool, but I need breakfast.
Guys, one of you German readers go read this (it's short), otherwise I'll poke through it when I have time. Short version as best I can tell: Brüderstrasse 13, today the Nicolaihaus, owned by Frau von Knyphausen 1719-1747 and greatly expanded by her, sold in 1747. Purchased by Nicolai in 1788, who had it renovated by your guy Zelter,
So Peter was probably living there in 1744, but I'm suspicious that he was not after 1748 and maybe the address just didn't get updated. Although it's a good-sized property, so maybe he rented an apartment? But the Adresskalender is looking more and more confusing to me.
Oh, btw, this is a map of the city in 1710. The Jägerhof is off to the lower left of the walled city, just inside the customs wall, and you can see Brüderstrasse just the other side of the Spree.
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 02:41 pm (UTC)Also didn't Felis original discovery say that the "Frau von Knyphausen's house" description at some point disappears from the address as given in the Adress book? Which might go with her selling the property. To the owner of the porcelain factory that would later become KPM, I see. Anyway, tentative suggestion - Peter kept the address in a kind of work office capacity and had his mail going there?
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:00 pm (UTC)Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:20 pm (UTC)1744-1747: "in der Brüderstrasse in der Frau v. Kniphausen Hause".
1748-1754: "in der Frau von Knyphausen Hause hinten am Wasser hinter der Brüderstrasse".
1755-1756: it's "his" house, without the Knyphausen mention, but the same description.
So yes, they moved from on the Brüderstrasse to behind the Brüderstrasse on the opposite side of (behind/beyond) the water (Spree)! So she was in fact living with them; I had been wondering about that when I wrote my fic.
So I guess she got the Jägerhof and then after she died, Fritz said Peter could stay as long as he lived, and then he said the same to Ariane after Peter died, and then he compensated her when he needed it again.
So now the question is: did Frau von Knyphausen die in 1751, as the internet tells me, or in 1754/1755, as the Adresskalender seems to indicate?
Other Knyphausen trivia:
Ariane's father, the foreign minister and former envoy (to Denmark, Spain, Vienna, France, and Russia, per Wikipedia!) who was involved in scheming against FW and in the English marriages, was in Venice at the same time as Pesne, was painted by Pesne, and it was this painting that so impressed F1 that he invited Pesne to his court.
One of Ariane's brothers was George Keith's successor as Fritz's envoy to France, right before the Seven Years' War. When the Diplomatic Revolution happened and the war started, he was recalled. Then he was sent to England instead, and he was the one who negotiated the subsidies with the Pitt government. He was recalled in disfavor when Bute took control and the subsidies stopped. Then he was supposed to be sent as envoy to Vienna after the war, but Fritz didn't pay enough, so he declined. He was married to a daughter of Frau von Wreech, the one Fritz courted with poetry and allegedly impregnated in his Küstrin days.
And! One of Ariane's sisters was married to Hertzberg! Meaning that even if my French was wrong yesterday, Envoy Son of Peter and Ariane was the nephew by marriage to Hertzberg. So between his uncle the envoy to France, England, and almost Vienna, and his uncle-by-marriage the Prussian minister of foreign affairs, I'm betting it was maternal connections that got him the Turin post. Horowski is right, you have to look at the maternal family connections! Peter never got to be an envoy to anywhere, as we know. :P But his brother-in-law got to negotiate the subsidies once Fritz actually had two fucks to give about diplomatic relations with England.
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:22 pm (UTC)Ahh, nice! So wait, Blaspiel was fired and replaced by Knyphausen, who was fired in 1730--do we know who his replacement was?
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:23 pm (UTC)Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:29 pm (UTC)Okay, Lavisse says, "Cnyphausen had been sent away, and replaced by Grumbkow's son-in-law." Podewils, then.