Because felis might not know the relevant Lehndorff entry (it's not in my Rheinsberg collection of Lehndorff diary entries), here it is again, from June 1765 in Volume II, Lehndorff Unplugged: Alles beschäftigt sich jetzt mit dem Handel. Die Bank kommt nach dem Jägerhof. Frau von Keith, der der König dieses Haus auf Lebenszeit überlassen hatte, wird von Sr. Majestät mit jährlich 1800 Talern sehr großmütig enschädigt.
It occurs to me this doesn't actually have to mean Peter and Ariane were living at the Jägerhof before Peter's death. Just that Ariane, as a widow, had been given the Jägerhof for her lifetime and now got a pension instead. Given there was a war inbetween Peter's death and this entry, during which Berlin had been occupied twice, which is why Lehndorff's mother was taken in by Ariane during one of these events, I wouldn't be surprised if either new living space or just something to draw an income from would have been necessary. After all, owning property can be profitable without you ever living there. (One of the reasons why Wusterhausen was an issue briefly after Fritz' death, see my reply elsewhere, was that it was still a florishing country estate worth about 40 000 Taler per annum.) So giving Ariane the Jägerhof might have been an attempt to make her financially secure, given she was a widow with two sons to raise, which was subsequently replaced by a direct pension.
BTW, looking up that Lehndorff entry has reminded me this was a terrible time for him. In the previous month, May 1765, he got sick, both his daughter and son died shortly after another, and then his wife got sick (though would not die yet).
All my happiness and my only joy were my dearly beloved children. My three years old beautiful boy who could walk and talk already was my everything. On the 7th, these dear children and my entire family celebrated my birthday. Since I was sick and in bed, these two angels came into my room and both handed me flowers. Of all the celebrations ever done for me, this was the dearest. With intense joy, I regarded these two dear sprouts, and my heart was overflowing. But my God, what a blow was ahead of me! I had started to recover somewhat, and my sister Podewils, who had lived with us for eight months, decided to return to Stettin. This made me very sad, and on the day of her departure a nameless misery came upon me. In order to distract me a bit, I searched for my children and found them both rather well, but they did cough, which didn't seem dangerous to me. At 5 pm I was told that the children suddenly had started to have fits. Immediately I was with them. It had been only a slight attack, and after a quarter of an hour, they were both calm again, so that I, too, started to calm down. When I went to bed in the evening, I was again given good news about their state. But on the 15th, my little daughter (Töchterchen, the pet form of the word) woke up at 4 am in terrible fits, and despite all ossible attempts and help, the dear child died at eight in the morning. The pain which this sad event had caused me can not be put in words. I pleaded with all the world and prayed to God to let me keep at least my son. This dear child seemed to do better again, I let him be moved to my room and did not leave his bedside for an instant. All the 15th, I had hope that God would let me keep him, but on the 16th, at 11 in the morning the fits started anew, and on the 17th at 5 in the morning I had lost my son as well. My hand cannot hold the pen. What one feels in such a situation cannot be expressed through words. I can only say that one does not die of pain despite prefering to be dead. My God! Is it possible that a human being survives such a blow! I was shattered, went from one room to the next and then went to my wife, whom I found extremely distressed but at least calm. I sat down at her bedside in order to commiserate our misfortune. Suddenly she tells me she feels sick; I jump up to support her, but she falls into my arms cold as death. I call for help. My brother-in-law Schlippenbach, Fräulein v. Horn and Fräulein v. Chaselons wo have just arrived to give me their condolences enter and stand around horrified when they saw the extent of the misfortune that had attacked me. I believed my wife would not live an hour longer; she had such terrible fits that I saw the moment arrive when she would take her last breath. She was bled, and one gave her the strongest smelling salts, but she still was between life and death for 24 hours longer.
And then she recovered.... for now. It's the kind of passage that didn't make it into the original volume because I guess Schmidt-Lötzen figured the readers wouldn't be interested in Lehndorff's family, but which really contribute to show who he was aside from his relationships with the Hohenzollern.
It occurs to me this doesn't actually have to mean Peter and Ariane were living at the Jägerhof before Peter's death.
I started thinking that yesterday as well! So possibly the two of them never actually lived there but they did get the money from it. (And maybe they could have lived there if they wanted to but decided to stay in Baroness Knyphausen's place.)
Given there was a war inbetween Peter's death and this entry, during which Berlin had been occupied twice, which is why Lehndorff's mother was taken in by Ariane during one of these events, I wouldn't be surprised if either new living space or just something to draw an income from would have been necessary.
Agreed that this could have been purely a source of income, but: we know that it wasn't a new gift from Fritz to Ariane during the war, because Lehndorff also mentions at Peter's death 9 years earlier that Fritz had given *Peter* the Jägerhof during his lifetime. That was how we knew that the Frau von Keith of 1765, and the Frau von Keith who took in Lehndorff's mother, was the same Frau von Keith who had been married to Peter. This was a source of confusion for a long time. As was the identity of the Jägerhof, which we learned about at Peter's death and could never find (it being ungoogleable) until we learned that it was turned into a bank in 1765.
Oh, wait, I just looked up Lehndorff at Peter's death, and he actually says "Wohnung":
Als lebenslängliche Wohnung gab ihm der König den Jägerhof, den auch seine Witwe behält.
You guys tell me, can "Wohnung" and "behält" mean just a source of income? "Keep" in English would be ambiguous to me--it could mean "provides for financially"--but "Wohnung" would have to be "property" rather than "dwelling."
Oh, wait, I think I found the Brüderstrasse property! This is cool, but I need breakfast.
Guys, one of you German readers go read this (it's short), otherwise I'll poke through it when I have time. Short version as best I can tell: Brüderstrasse 13, today the Nicolaihaus, owned by Frau von Knyphausen 1719-1747 and greatly expanded by her, sold in 1747. Purchased by Nicolai in 1788, who had it renovated by your guy Zelter, selenak.
So Peter was probably living there in 1744, but I'm suspicious that he was not after 1748 and maybe the address just didn't get updated. Although it's a good-sized property, so maybe he rented an apartment? But the Adresskalender is looking more and more confusing to me.
Oh, btw, this is a map of the city in 1710. The Jägerhof is off to the lower left of the walled city, just inside the customs wall, and you can see Brüderstrasse just the other side of the Spree.
I can't afford to do more than look very quickly, so I'll pass this over to felis. But my very quick look tells me that Frau von Knyphausen aquired the property from none other than the von Blaspiels, aka Manteuffel's recently locked up in Spandau and then released and exiled mistress and spy Frau von Blaspiel and her husband the fired Minister of War (whose job now was held by Herr von Knyphausen).
Also didn't Felis original discovery say that the "Frau von Knyphausen's house" description at some point disappears from the address as given in the Adress book? Which might go with her selling the property. To the owner of the porcelain factory that would later become KPM, I see. Anyway, tentative suggestion - Peter kept the address in a kind of work office capacity and had his mail going there?
The Frau v. Knyphausen bit actually stays until 1754, but the change in 1748 is from "Brüderstrasse" to "behind Brüderstrasse at the waterside", which fits a 1747 sale perfectly. So the question is, did she acquire a different house "behind Brüderstrasse etc" or is that supposed to be a synonym for the Jägerhof, which is on the other side of the water plus a block over and could have been called just that?
Ah, yes, now that I look more closely at your summary of the dates, it's:
1744-1747: "in der Brüderstrasse in der Frau v. Kniphausen Hause". 1748-1754: "in der Frau von Knyphausen Hause hinten am Wasser hinter der Brüderstrasse". 1755-1756: it's "his" house, without the Knyphausen mention, but the same description.
So yes, they moved from on the Brüderstrasse to behind the Brüderstrasse on the opposite side of (behind/beyond) the water (Spree)! So she was in fact living with them; I had been wondering about that when I wrote my fic.
So I guess she got the Jägerhof and then after she died, Fritz said Peter could stay as long as he lived, and then he said the same to Ariane after Peter died, and then he compensated her when he needed it again.
So now the question is: did Frau von Knyphausen die in 1751, as the internet tells me, or in 1754/1755, as the Adresskalender seems to indicate?
Other Knyphausen trivia:
Ariane's father, the foreign minister and former envoy (to Denmark, Spain, Vienna, France, and Russia, per Wikipedia!) who was involved in scheming against FW and in the English marriages, was in Venice at the same time as Pesne, was painted by Pesne, and it was this painting that so impressed F1 that he invited Pesne to his court.
One of Ariane's brothers was George Keith's successor as Fritz's envoy to France, right before the Seven Years' War. When the Diplomatic Revolution happened and the war started, he was recalled. Then he was sent to England instead, and he was the one who negotiated the subsidies with the Pitt government. He was recalled in disfavor when Bute took control and the subsidies stopped. Then he was supposed to be sent as envoy to Vienna after the war, but Fritz didn't pay enough, so he declined. He was married to a daughter of Frau von Wreech, the one Fritz courted with poetry and allegedly impregnated in his Küstrin days.
And! One of Ariane's sisters was married to Hertzberg! Meaning that even if my French was wrong yesterday, Envoy Son of Peter and Ariane was the nephew by marriage to Hertzberg. So between his uncle the envoy to France, England, and almost Vienna, and his uncle-by-marriage the Prussian minister of foreign affairs, I'm betting it was maternal connections that got him the Turin post. Horowski is right, you have to look at the maternal family connections! Peter never got to be an envoy to anywhere, as we know. :P But his brother-in-law got to negotiate the subsidies once Fritz actually had two fucks to give about diplomatic relations with England.
Frau von Knyphausen aquired the property from none other than the von Blaspiels, aka Manteuffel's recently locked up in Spandau and then released and exiled mistress and spy Frau von Blaspiel and her husband the fired Minister of War (whose job now was held by Herr von Knyphausen).
Ahh, nice! So wait, Blaspiel was fired and replaced by Knyphausen, who was fired in 1730--do we know who his replacement was?
It's the kind of passage that didn't make it into the original volume because I guess Schmidt-Lötzen figured the readers wouldn't be interested in Lehndorff's family, but which really contribute to show who he was aside from his relationships with the Hohenzollern.
I still love that the readers were like "No, we want more LEHNDORFF!" Thank you, readers!
Sorry, Lehndorff, I got sidetracked by original research on Peter Keith! But that passage is harrowing in its own way. When I was researching Lehndorff's chronology for the final chapter of "Lovers", and I saw the dates of death after death after death, it was so heartbreaking. :'( That's why I had to include the scene where a kid actually gets *better*.
I still love that the readers were like "No, we want more LEHNDORFF!" Thank you, readers!
Yes, we're deeply indebted to you, readers! To you, Schmidt-Lötzen, for all your hard work, but to you as well, readers, for your good taste!
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timeasmymeasure
Jägershof and Lehndorff
Date: 2021-03-20 07:41 am (UTC)It occurs to me this doesn't actually have to mean Peter and Ariane were living at the Jägerhof before Peter's death. Just that Ariane, as a widow, had been given the Jägerhof for her lifetime and now got a pension instead. Given there was a war inbetween Peter's death and this entry, during which Berlin had been occupied twice, which is why Lehndorff's mother was taken in by Ariane during one of these events, I wouldn't be surprised if either new living space or just something to draw an income from would have been necessary. After all, owning property can be profitable without you ever living there. (One of the reasons why Wusterhausen was an issue briefly after Fritz' death, see my reply elsewhere, was that it was still a florishing country estate worth about 40 000 Taler per annum.) So giving Ariane the Jägerhof might have been an attempt to make her financially secure, given she was a widow with two sons to raise, which was subsequently replaced by a direct pension.
BTW, looking up that Lehndorff entry has reminded me this was a terrible time for him. In the previous month, May 1765, he got sick, both his daughter and son died shortly after another, and then his wife got sick (though would not die yet).
All my happiness and my only joy were my dearly beloved children. My three years old beautiful boy who could walk and talk already was my everything. On the 7th, these dear children and my entire family celebrated my birthday. Since I was sick and in bed, these two angels came into my room and both handed me flowers. Of all the celebrations ever done for me, this was the dearest. With intense joy, I regarded these two dear sprouts, and my heart was overflowing. But my God, what a blow was ahead of me! I had started to recover somewhat, and my sister Podewils, who had lived with us for eight months, decided to return to Stettin. This made me very sad, and on the day of her departure a nameless misery came upon me. In order to distract me a bit, I searched for my children and found them both rather well, but they did cough, which didn't seem dangerous to me. At 5 pm I was told that the children suddenly had started to have fits. Immediately I was with them. It had been only a slight attack, and after a quarter of an hour, they were both calm again, so that I, too, started to calm down. When I went to bed in the evening, I was again given good news about their state. But on the 15th, my little daughter (Töchterchen, the pet form of the word) woke up at 4 am in terrible fits, and despite all ossible attempts and help, the dear child died at eight in the morning. The pain which this sad event had caused me can not be put in words. I pleaded with all the world and prayed to God to let me keep at least my son. This dear child seemed to do better again, I let him be moved to my room and did not leave his bedside for an instant. All the 15th, I had hope that God would let me keep him, but on the 16th, at 11 in the morning the fits started anew, and on the 17th at 5 in the morning I had lost my son as well. My hand cannot hold the pen. What one feels in such a situation cannot be expressed through words. I can only say that one does not die of pain despite prefering to be dead. My God! Is it possible that a human being survives such a blow! I was shattered, went from one room to the next and then went to my wife, whom I found extremely distressed but at least calm. I sat down at her bedside in order to commiserate our misfortune. Suddenly she tells me she feels sick; I jump up to support her, but she falls into my arms cold as death. I call for help. My brother-in-law Schlippenbach, Fräulein v. Horn and Fräulein v. Chaselons wo have just arrived to give me their condolences enter and stand around horrified when they saw the extent of the misfortune that had attacked me. I believed my wife would not live an hour longer; she had such terrible fits that I saw the moment arrive when she would take her last breath. She was bled, and one gave her the strongest smelling salts, but she still was between life and death for 24 hours longer.
And then she recovered.... for now. It's the kind of passage that didn't make it into the original volume because I guess Schmidt-Lötzen figured the readers wouldn't be interested in Lehndorff's family, but which really contribute to show who he was aside from his relationships with the Hohenzollern.
Re: Jägershof and Lehndorff
Date: 2021-03-20 09:18 am (UTC)I started thinking that yesterday as well! So possibly the two of them never actually lived there but they did get the money from it. (And maybe they could have lived there if they wanted to but decided to stay in Baroness Knyphausen's place.)
And yeah, poor Lehndorff. :((
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 12:47 pm (UTC)Agreed that this could have been purely a source of income, but: we know that it wasn't a new gift from Fritz to Ariane during the war, because Lehndorff also mentions at Peter's death 9 years earlier that Fritz had given *Peter* the Jägerhof during his lifetime. That was how we knew that the Frau von Keith of 1765, and the Frau von Keith who took in Lehndorff's mother, was the same Frau von Keith who had been married to Peter. This was a source of confusion for a long time. As was the identity of the Jägerhof, which we learned about at Peter's death and could never find (it being ungoogleable) until we learned that it was turned into a bank in 1765.
Oh, wait, I just looked up Lehndorff at Peter's death, and he actually says "Wohnung":
Als lebenslängliche Wohnung gab ihm der König den Jägerhof, den auch seine Witwe behält.
You guys tell me, can "Wohnung" and "behält" mean just a source of income? "Keep" in English would be ambiguous to me--it could mean "provides for financially"--but "Wohnung" would have to be "property" rather than "dwelling."
Oh, wait, I think I found the Brüderstrasse property! This is cool, but I need breakfast.
Guys, one of you German readers go read this (it's short), otherwise I'll poke through it when I have time. Short version as best I can tell: Brüderstrasse 13, today the Nicolaihaus, owned by Frau von Knyphausen 1719-1747 and greatly expanded by her, sold in 1747. Purchased by Nicolai in 1788, who had it renovated by your guy Zelter,
So Peter was probably living there in 1744, but I'm suspicious that he was not after 1748 and maybe the address just didn't get updated. Although it's a good-sized property, so maybe he rented an apartment? But the Adresskalender is looking more and more confusing to me.
Oh, btw, this is a map of the city in 1710. The Jägerhof is off to the lower left of the walled city, just inside the customs wall, and you can see Brüderstrasse just the other side of the Spree.
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 02:41 pm (UTC)Also didn't Felis original discovery say that the "Frau von Knyphausen's house" description at some point disappears from the address as given in the Adress book? Which might go with her selling the property. To the owner of the porcelain factory that would later become KPM, I see. Anyway, tentative suggestion - Peter kept the address in a kind of work office capacity and had his mail going there?
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:00 pm (UTC)Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:20 pm (UTC)1744-1747: "in der Brüderstrasse in der Frau v. Kniphausen Hause".
1748-1754: "in der Frau von Knyphausen Hause hinten am Wasser hinter der Brüderstrasse".
1755-1756: it's "his" house, without the Knyphausen mention, but the same description.
So yes, they moved from on the Brüderstrasse to behind the Brüderstrasse on the opposite side of (behind/beyond) the water (Spree)! So she was in fact living with them; I had been wondering about that when I wrote my fic.
So I guess she got the Jägerhof and then after she died, Fritz said Peter could stay as long as he lived, and then he said the same to Ariane after Peter died, and then he compensated her when he needed it again.
So now the question is: did Frau von Knyphausen die in 1751, as the internet tells me, or in 1754/1755, as the Adresskalender seems to indicate?
Other Knyphausen trivia:
Ariane's father, the foreign minister and former envoy (to Denmark, Spain, Vienna, France, and Russia, per Wikipedia!) who was involved in scheming against FW and in the English marriages, was in Venice at the same time as Pesne, was painted by Pesne, and it was this painting that so impressed F1 that he invited Pesne to his court.
One of Ariane's brothers was George Keith's successor as Fritz's envoy to France, right before the Seven Years' War. When the Diplomatic Revolution happened and the war started, he was recalled. Then he was sent to England instead, and he was the one who negotiated the subsidies with the Pitt government. He was recalled in disfavor when Bute took control and the subsidies stopped. Then he was supposed to be sent as envoy to Vienna after the war, but Fritz didn't pay enough, so he declined. He was married to a daughter of Frau von Wreech, the one Fritz courted with poetry and allegedly impregnated in his Küstrin days.
And! One of Ariane's sisters was married to Hertzberg! Meaning that even if my French was wrong yesterday, Envoy Son of Peter and Ariane was the nephew by marriage to Hertzberg. So between his uncle the envoy to France, England, and almost Vienna, and his uncle-by-marriage the Prussian minister of foreign affairs, I'm betting it was maternal connections that got him the Turin post. Horowski is right, you have to look at the maternal family connections! Peter never got to be an envoy to anywhere, as we know. :P But his brother-in-law got to negotiate the subsidies once Fritz actually had two fucks to give about diplomatic relations with England.
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:22 pm (UTC)Ahh, nice! So wait, Blaspiel was fired and replaced by Knyphausen, who was fired in 1730--do we know who his replacement was?
Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:23 pm (UTC)Re: Jägershof and Brüderstrasse: Royal Reader request!
Date: 2021-03-20 03:29 pm (UTC)Okay, Lavisse says, "Cnyphausen had been sent away, and replaced by Grumbkow's son-in-law." Podewils, then.
Re: Jägershof and Lehndorff
Date: 2021-03-21 05:21 am (UTC)It's the kind of passage that didn't make it into the original volume because I guess Schmidt-Lötzen figured the readers wouldn't be interested in Lehndorff's family, but which really contribute to show who he was aside from his relationships with the Hohenzollern.
I still love that the readers were like "No, we want more LEHNDORFF!" Thank you, readers!
Lehndorff
Date: 2021-03-21 12:54 pm (UTC)I still love that the readers were like "No, we want more LEHNDORFF!" Thank you, readers!
Yes, we're deeply indebted to you, readers! To you, Schmidt-Lötzen, for all your hard work, but to you as well, readers, for your good taste!