selenak: (Obsession by Eirena)
From: [personal profile] selenak
Morgenstern's Über Friedrich Wilhelm I. was published postumously in 1793. He died in 1785, one year before Fritz, and it's not entirely clear when this memoir was written, but definitely after Fritz' "Histoire de la Maison de Brandenburg" was published, as it's referenced (as in, see how worthless F1 gets dissed by King Fritz in this great work, too!). I also think it must be after Pöllnitz' history of the four princes of Brandenburg at least was in circulation, because while Morgenstern disses Pöllnitz as a person as well, he tells one story where no one but FW and Pöllnitz are present and they have a lengthy dialoge which sounds to me as it was likely plagiarized from a Pöllnitz book. So it's worth keeping in mind that some of the stories could hail from either of those books (neither of which I've read, so I can't be sure.)

The preface tells me Morgenstern also claimed to have been a secret agent for FW who stopped a Prussian/British war in 1739 (though the book itself says that it was in 1737 that the author was in Britain on a mission for FW), and that even Fritz "used him, made him vice chancellor of Silesia yet recalled him to Potsdam in 1756, where he died later". Since I've never seen the claim that Morgenstern made peace between Britain and Prussia in the late 1730s anywhere else, including the two Mitchell dissertations with the summaries of the English-Prussian diplomatic backstory pre Mitchell, I am, shall we say, somewhat sceptical. The preface concludes that in his private life, Morgenstern distinguished himself by being a miser, stubborn, a cynic and through some excentricities as well as considerable scholarly knowledge, and that one could add some well known anecdotes about him but won't because de mortuis nihil nisi bene. Alas I can't see the editor's name somewhere.

As to the book proper. The first half certainly makes it sounds like Morgenstern is FW's Zimmermann. Not just because of all the praise for his high morals, dedication to work, and general geratness but the tinhat "this explains everything!" theory which Morgenstern's case is that young FW fell in love with young Caroline and never really got over it. Unlike Jochen Klepper in his novel, Morgenstern avoids saying whether or not he thinks she requited his feelings. But he is convinced that Carolline's rejection of FW's proposal was dictated to her by mean sarcastic grandma Sophie or by Sophie Charlotte, but more likely Sophie, wanting Caroline for future G2 instead. Why is he so sure? Because such an excellent woman as the late Queen Caroline surely, surely, would have let down FW gently instead of decisively and sarcastically which is what she apparently did. It's all Grandma's fault! Because Caroline never would have said a harsh word to FW otherwise.

(Lord Hervey, somewhere in the hereafter: *spit take*)

FW's life long pining for Caroline is also one of the reasons why he wasn't as good with his older children as he was with the younger ones. He still hadn't adjusted to his Caroline-less life then. HOWEVER, he was an utterly faithful husband to SD, despite being tempted as a young man. (But then he married the pretty castellan's daughter off post haste before he could be tempted some more.) Further proof that FW never had sex with anyone but SD in his life for Morgenstern is an exchange in the Tobacco College, where FW asked his fellow smokers after having been married to SD for decades already whether if a certain part of the female anatomy - "the source of all joy and procreation", as Morgenstern terms it - smells bad, this is a sign of bad hygiene, or whether this is true for all women. Another companion assures him that his wife Charlotte smells great there, and the poor lady from this point onwards is known as "Sweet Smelling Charlotte" in tout Berlin.

Now, always according to Morgensten, G2 ending up with Caroline instead is just one of the many, many things FW held against his cousin and brother-in-law. More serious is that G2 also ended up with three crowns he did not deserve and which FW should have gotten. (At this point, a vague memory made itself known, because yes, in one of the many books I've read this last year it did say William of Orange considered adopting FW as his heir for a while, in which case Britain would have gotten the Hohenzollern Friedrichs and Wilhelms instead of the Hannover Georges.) Morgenstern tells a dramatic tale of how kid FW, who in his twelfth year has been taken by Mother SC on a trip to the Netherlands, gets presented to William of Orange and is much liked by him, to the point where the King wants to kidnap him and take him to Britain, only to be talked out of it in the last minute. FW keeps thinking he missed his destiny there.

"If only I'd been King William, he could have made a great man out of me", (...) The Holsteiner interrupted him with a smile: "But you are a great King, how could being King William have made you greater?" The Master returned with some indignation: "You talk as you know it. Of course he could have gotten me elected as Stateholder, he could have taught me the craft to command the armies of Europe, do you know anything greater?"

Since FW has the same amount of British royal blood in him as G2 does (they're both great-grandsons of Elizabeth Stuart the Winter Queen), it's really not fair that stupd G2 got Britain AND Caroline. Grrr. Argh. Morgenstern also claims that when he was on his secret mission in Britain in 1737, he checked the files and saw that the Scots wanted FW rather than the Hannover gang as well in Queen Anne's time.

Morgenstern also reports the FW-G2 fight when they were kids in Hannover, only in his version it was after they had started to learn to fence, so it was an almost duel already. And the wonderful story of FW on his deathbed telling SD she can write to her brother that he, FW, forgives him. But only after he's dead.

Oh, and then there's this: in 1738 while inspecting Wesel, FW meets the current Prince of Orange, who's married to G2's and Caroline's oldest daughter Anne, and Anne herself. Anne leaves an impression, for FW, returning to Berlin, tells SD: "Fiekchen, if you die, I'm going to remarry within the family. I'm going to marry your brother's daughter. Luckily, she's not like her father at all. She takes after her mother, only she's not pretty.")

(This stuff is all over the book, I'm just putting it thematically together.)

Now, here's the odd thing. While the first half is unrelenting praise for FW, and defense against the various charges against him, including cruelty, the second half offers actually various examples of FW being cruel. I'm not sure whether that means the author hadn't finished working on the manuscript or whether he's not aware there is a contradiction there or what.

I also mentioned earlier that the hostility towards both of FW's parents is pretty unrelenting. SC is at fault for spoiling him. The anecdote illustrating this is that once when Tiny Terror FW beat up his cousin and name sake Friedrich Wilhelm of Kurland, has the kid under him and both hands in his hair when in comes Mom, but instead - so says Morgenstern FW told the tale - of either punishing him or at least saving the other kid from him, she just says, distraught: "Mon cher fils! Que faites-vous!" Ergo, he had to learn all about childraising himself, since Dad didn't give him any discipline, either, which proves Dad didn't care. Dad was only into kingship, and provided FW with servants but not Christian education, and also he murdered little baby Friedrich Ludwig with his stupid salute shooting, and then he married for a third time when there really was no need, because FW was on the job. Dad F1 was the worst King who ever existed, and our current King says the same thing, readers, so it must be true.

When Morgenstern gets to how FW had so seek out his own friends because his parents court was just, ugh, we get this gem of a quote:

So he had to create himself friends, and he found them among all who got to know him, partly through his honesty, partly through his benevolence. And as he was modest in his claims and requests, he did not insist to have his friendship returned in an exemplary manner, to find a Hephaistion as Alexander had done; for he knew how his ancestors had behaved with their Hephaistions.


I am very hard trying to take this solely as referring to Hephaistion as an example of a "good" favourite here, but you're not making it easy, Morgenstern.


No, he was content if others understood half a word from him; if they took a hint through a glance; if they could entertain him, especially in an honest and just fashion.

Morgenstern, as mentioned, defends FW against the charge of cruelty, a misunderstanding which arose, says he, because "of the beatings, because of the recruitment excesses and because of the strict executions". But look, says he: he needed the army in order to get Prussia on a good footing again, executions were for discipline and also to deterr thieves (FW using the death penalty for thieves wasn't a given in German states, unlike in England), and anyway, the poof that FW wasn't a sadist (of course Morgenstern doesn't use this word, the Marquis de Sade is his contemporary, after all, but it's what he means) is that such people delight in watching others suffer, and FW never did that.

"No one can deny that the late King has been the most compassionate towards the victims of his rage."

He always forgave any sinnner who repented. And okay, so he got angry a few times at his family, BUT he didn't get physical except for what Morgenstern refers to as The Great Incident. (Yep, Morgenstern is definitely Klepper's source for postponing FW being abusive to Fritz until 1730.) Also? "When the Crown Prince was at Küstrin, his father in order to keep him occupied had him review all cirminal trials for either confirmation or rejection of the judgment. How could a suppoosedly so cruel master let go of the opportunity to torment via the law, to make life miserable and to shed blood?"

Now, at this point I thought I had Morgenstern's number, but he will surprise us, gentle readers, somewhat later when he comes to... but that's a surprise.

Keep in mind Morgenstern only knew FW during the last four years of his life, too. Everything else he describes, he describes from hearsay. But what he writes about FW's daily routine and personnel in his last years, for example, I guess we can take at face value, and since it's the obvious model and yet a contrast to Fritz' daily routine, here you go:

Friedrich Wilhelm limited himself to two, at most three pages who both served him at the table and followed him everwhere on horseback, and had to live from ten Reichstaler per month. After three or four years, he made them Lieutenants with the equipage coming with that state and a hundred ducats. (...) For his nursing and care, the King had five footmen and one hunter, who did the same servicen when the master got dressed or by sleeping in front of his bed as those who received postmaster offices or other benevolences so they could l ive well with a salary of 400 Reichstaler. When he died, these were:

1.) Abt, who then died twice.
2.) Bramdhorst, who followed Eversmann as Chatelain in Berlin.
3.) Wiedekin, who received the post office in Minden.
4.) Müller
(Morgenstern tells a story of him using the opportunity of having to deliver a thank you present from FW to Cardinal Fleury to high tail it out of Prussia)
5.) Hammerstein, who also became a postmaster and
6.) Meyer, who became Oberforstmeister in Torgelow, Upper Pomerania.

Moreover eight chamber footmen, and the same number of hunters, who served at the table in the antechambre and at the King's sickness carriage
(Kranken-Wagen, perhaps the wheelchair, perhaps an actual wagon necessary to transport him in his final year), for eight Reichstaler a month, and who were given offices at city halls or at tax offices, or at profitable hunting grounds.

Speaking of money. Let's talk about household expenses:

In order not to need a budget for his and his family's wardrobe, nor for his hunting, he told the Queen, whom he had left her considerable heritage for free use, that she would have to finance from the annual 8000 Reichstaler the following:

- linnen for herself, the princesses, the princes and the King
- also everyone's wardrobe
- powder and bullets for the hunting at Wusterhausen and Mackenow in autumn; in recompense, she was to have any feathery game that didn't get eaten right away

In order to be galant, he did present the Queen and each of the princesess with at least one winter dress each year; but he would not agree to have this put in the contract for which the Queen needed a legal advisor, as (...) in anger against his brother-in-law, he hadn't even wanted to sign it as her marital curator.


Day in the life:
Morning starts with a prayer (of course it does), washing, cabinet secretaries show up and report about the incoming mail, note down the King's orders/replies. While they're doing this, FW drinks his coffee and gets dressed (by servants). The resolutions from the previous day are read through and signed while FW gets into his boots. After five to six hours administrative work, he's off to soldiering (i.e. inspections, parades), though he combines that with meeting envoys and foreign visitors. Lunch with up to 30 people, for two hours, with a guest getting one or one and a have bottles of wine on avarage. When in Berlin, FW also receives the envoys here as well, which means more wine. If he's in a good mood, the wine flows until he says stop. After lunch: riding with the pages and a few servants; this is when he talks to any subjects trying to meet him directly. If FW can't ride because either his health isn't up to it or the weather is too bad, he paints, with a painter who is Morgenstern's arch enemy. The painter, Johann Adelfing, nickname "Hänsgen" (= little Hans, because Johann) gets 100 Reichstaler per annum, and because of the colors used a Gulden for every day they paint together. "...but for every stroke with the paintbrush which the King didn't manage well, Hänsgen got a rich share of pushes and slaps. The results of these painting lessons weren't much to look at, though the student easily did as well as the master."

So, FW's theatre taste according to Morgenstern: He had liked French comedy during his campaigns in Brabant, but lost the taste for them when he had it staged once and the next day heard the children call each other by the names of the play, especially the youngest son, then 6 or 7 years old, calling himself Policinello. German comedy used to be very bawdy in those days, and so he thought it was too dangerous for the youngsters. Of Italian comedy, he liked slapstick, but he was ready to admit that this was not to everyone's taste.

Puppet play, he regarded justly as childish, but when it was presented at the tavern in Wusterhausen and he heard from his people about the burlesque they were presenting, he ordered it performed in front of the entire court, and the master could never recall the entire performance without laughing heartily.


And now we get to the surprise, i.e. where Morgenstern suddenly sounds... dowright FW critical. What's the occasion? Well....

Edited Date: 2021-03-08 05:41 pm (UTC)
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
Please don't let him be misunderstood! :D

Another great writeup, will reply when I get the chance (Mondays and Tuesdays are the busiest at work), just want you to know your hard work is seen and appreciated!

As for the identity of the editor, it was unknown to Richard Leineweber, a doctoral student who evidently (afaict? I didn't have time to puzzle out much German) wrote his dissertation on Morgenstern's FW bio in 1899. See the footnotes on page 29 of the volume I just uploaded. It's about 50 pages, so you can skim and see if it has anything of interest.
Edited Date: 2021-03-09 01:06 am (UTC)
selenak: (Naomie Harris by Lady Turner)
From: [personal profile] selenak
Oh, Leineweber's dissertation is great stuff! It provides several key bits of biographical information about Morgenstern, demonstrates pretty efficiently that 99% of his stories about young FW (and FW's relationships with his parents) are nonsense (with the F1 stuff for the most part indeed hailing from Fritz' "Histoire" as I guessed, including, btw, the "he married unnecessarily a third time" complaint) but that the stuff about older FW is far more reliable. Most intriguingly, he thinks the contradiction between Morgenstern claiming one thing (FW isn't cruel, FW is polite to ladies etc.) and then demonstrating another via the anecdotes he tells was entirely intentional on Morgenstern's part, with Morgenstern employing the "and Brutus is an honorable man" technique in Frederician Prussia.

A seperate, more detailed write up on Leineweber/Morgenstern to follow.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
Oh, YAY! Having read your write-ups, I can now say that it was a very interesting and informative find! Better than I'd hoped when just googling everywhere trying to identify the editor. (Am still proud that I managed to find the passage in this dissertation where he talks about the editor and understand that he was saying that he didn't know either. That's not something I could have done at the beginning of salon!)

including, btw, the "he married unnecessarily a third time" complaint

Lol, Fritz, we know you don't like your friends and generals to marry, but objecting to your grandfather marrying before you were born is taking it too far! :P

with Morgenstern employing the "and Brutus is an honorable man" technique in Frederician Prussia.

Ooooh, that is very interesting!

Leineweber write-ups have been read and added to the backlog for future commenting!
selenak: (Émilie du Chatelet)
From: [personal profile] selenak
Lol, Fritz, we know you don't like your friends and generals to marry, but objecting to your grandfather marrying before you were born is taking it too far! :P

In fairness to Fritz, it's the heritage factor and the miserlinesss speaking rather than the general dislike of the matrimonial state, I think. See also Wilhelmine in the early 30s exploding in letters when her father-in-law wants to remarry (and Sonsine's sister, no less). (Luckily for Wilhelmine and BayreuthFriedrich, Flora von Sonsfeld says no to the old Margrave.) Of course the old Margrave can't change primogeniture as far as the order of who gets to be the next Margrave is concerned, because HRE law, for the same reason FW can't remove Fritz from the succession (or Fritz AW or FW2 later)without these agreeing to it or the Emperor and the diet agreeing to a petition asking for it. HOWEVER, if the old Margrave had reproduced, he could have left practically everything but the title to his new son if he had so wished, and Wilhelmine and BayreuthFriedrich were in financial dependence to FW already during the old Margrave's life time. This could have condemmed them to more scraping forever from the Prussian table.

Now, as it happens Grandpa F1 did neither reproduce nor did his poor bonkers third wife drain the treasury. But reproduction had certainly been the intention - since FW's first two baby boys had died - and I can see Fritz, already predisposed to hate on Grandpa, deciding this was F1 wilfully risking his, Fritz' future heritage by potentially dividing it up among more potential heirs and widows.
selenak: (Wilhelmine)
From: [personal profile] selenak

1.) Abt, who then died twice.

I don't get this, does this mean that he loved FW so much that he felt like he was dying too?


I didn't get it, either, but I literally translated what was there "...der danach zweimal starb". No further explanation in the text. Did he fake his death? Was his death misreported? Did he have a heart attack and an almost death? Your guess is as good as mine.


Wooooow. Yeah, either Morgenstern had to be the most naive person ever (but then whence all the secret agent stuff?) or he was writing that sentence with a lot of angry humor.


The biographical background info does make a difference to my own estimation, too. Though I do think he meant all the praise for FW the hard worker and reformer, and Leineweber pointed out to me there are a few subtle Fritz disses in the text, too, as when he says that FW's money was as good as his word (remember the coin-clipping during the 7 Years War as well was Fritz' economical relationship to the truth?). But yes, he'd have to be a fan on the Zimmermann level to mean all "no one had more pity with the victims of his rage than FW" stuff, and learning more about him swayed me to the side of "he just wasn't".

Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier -- I snorted a bit there; there are so many ways they legit killed babies back then (like bleeding them for measles, omg) and salute shooting is the best he could come up with? :P

Especially since according to according to this entry by F1's master of the ceremonies on Fritz' birth salutes were shot and bells were rung as well, and baby Fritz survived.

"Fiekchen, if you die, I'm going to remarry within the family. I'm going to marry your brother's daughter. Luckily, she's not like her father at all. She takes after her mother, only she's not pretty."

Wooooow. There are so many things wrong with that, I don't even know where to begin. FW!


Presumably he was joking, because given his state of health and SD's, it was at this point obvious who was likely to survive whom. Not to mention that a widowed Anne wasn't likely to take him as a husband, either, especially if her father had any say in this. But jokes with FW usually have a kernel of truth. Whether or not he found Anne attractive (and a less pretty version of Caroline), he really liked the Netherlands. In some of his retirement fantasies, which were about as realistic as Fritz' retirement fantasies decades later but which he did have and voiced, he wondered about going to the Netherlands and living there in his old age. (Remember, he wasn't actually that old when he died.) And maybe there was something to Morgenstern's claim of FW wishing William of Orange had made him his heir or at least gotten him elected Stateholder of the Netherlands if not King of GB. In theory, if he'd married a widowed Anne, this still could have happened.

Although that's kind of an awful story about Charlotte!

Poor lady. And what is it about homosocial men complaining how women smell? (Philippe d'Orleans the first, Fritz, FW...)

Incidentally, Morgenstern being able to write about a vagina - "source of all joy" euphemism not withstanding - tells you a lot about the 18th century vs the 19th. Would have never passed censorship or bowlderization then, not in the German states or in Britain or the US.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
Presumably he was joking, because given his state of health and SD's, it was at this point obvious who was likely to survive whom.

I was going to suggest death in childbirth, but then I checked the date, and in 1738, yeah, no, I agree he's joking.

No further explanation in the text. Did he fake his death? Was his death misreported? Did he have a heart attack and an almost death? Your guess is as good as mine.

Talking about failing in one's duties to posterity!

Remember, he wasn't actually that old when he died.

51, as a reminder.

Poor lady. And what is it about homosocial men complaining how women smell? (Philippe d'Orleans the first, Fritz, FW...)

Well, if he's specifically referring to her vagina, it could alternately be hygiene or an infection.

...In keeping with the theme of our gossipy salon and the signed testimonies on the state of Fritz's penis, I have now read an article on various vagina smells and what can cause them. Aside from the usual suspects, there was this one I hadn't predicted:

When you are stressed or anxious, the apocrine glands produce a milky fluid. On its own this fluid is odorless. But when this fluid contacts the abundance of vaginal bacteria on your vulva, it can produce a pungent aroma.

Maybe she's unhappy in her marriage, FW!

Also, according to this article, sweet-smelling odors are a thing for some women, and are perfectly normal and healthy!

See, in the olden days, you had to ask around at your drinking club. These days, we have google! :P

tells you a lot about the 18th century vs the 19th. Would have never passed censorship or bowlderization then, not in the German states or in Britain or the US.

Definitely.
selenak: (Cosima by Karlsefni)
From: [personal profile] selenak
...In keeping with the theme of our gossipy salon and the signed testimonies on the state of Fritz's penis, I have now read an article on various vagina smells and what can cause them. Aside from the usual suspects, there was this one I hadn't predicted:

When you are stressed or anxious, the apocrine glands produce a milky fluid. On its own this fluid is odorless. But when this fluid contacts the abundance of vaginal bacteria on your vulva, it can produce a pungent aroma.

Maybe she's unhappy in her marriage, FW!


No kidding, and go you for being so thorough as to unearth that fact. I can't think of a time when SD most likely wasn't anxious in her marriage, not even the early years when F1 was still reigning King, because at that point the pressure to deliver a male heir on her was highest.

This biological fact probably also explains Philippe d'Orleans, who made that comment about his first wife, because his marriage to Henriette "Minette" was a catastrophe from start to finish.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
No detail is too small or too sensationalist for us detectives to research!

Your write-up on Minette was interesting and horrifying. Thank you!
selenak: (DuncanAmanda - Kathyh)
From: [personal profile] selenak
You're welcome. Because Philippe is a very sympathetic character in Versailles, a lot of younger people got interested in him and promptly exploded into indignation of how he was presented in a great many work of fiction and non fiction before Versailles. As, for example, in the (mostly very good) tv series about Charles II, "C2: The Power and the Passion". And there were cries of homophobia galore. Which, yes, always a factor that can't be discounted, but within the context of his first marriage he did often behave terrible, and Minette had an increasing awful life because of it. Was she herself also at fault? In that she at the very least flirted with her brother-in-law early in the marriage and then with one of Philippe's boyfriends, the Comte de Guiche, yes. But as her husband, he had the greater power, and he did use it in every way a husband hating his wife at that time could. That's not something homophobic scriptwriters or novelists made up, it's something well documented via plenty of letters both from everyone involved and from French and visiting nobles at Versailles.

In conclusion, as we've said about many a royal woman: would not have wanted to be one for love or money, not ever.
felis: (House renfair)
From: [personal profile] felis
1.) Abt, who then died twice.

Letter from Fritz to SD, February 22nd, 1745:

A very singular adventure has happened here. The old valet Abt, ill in agony, surrounded by priests, doctors, and all the paraphernalia with which the living dress those who want to leave this world, thought he was dying, and persuaded his spectators so well that, after his last sigh, they laid him down on the mattress [in a coffin I suspect]. Three hours after his death, people heard a great noise; a general rumor arose in the house. But who was the most surprised was the wife to see the deceased full of life and very unhappy to see himself at the edge of the tomb, having great appetite and no desire to leave yet. People cry out a miracle, the neighborhood rushes in, the priests arrive, with them the Faculty of surgeons and doctors; in short, it took more than a hundred people to persuade Madame that Monsieur was not dead, and that he should be looked at as full of life. Even better, that the patient approaches convalescence more than death, and that Madame does not appear otherwise edified. I found the singularity of this story worthy of being related to my very dear mother. I wish I could entertain her with something better, but still it is a lot when Potsdam provides such a tale.

:-D

... I actually briefly googled this a couple of days ago and the only thing I discovered was that Johann Friedrich Abt was FW's oldest valet, already with him when FW was still crown prince. And then just now I decided to search Trier, not expecting anything - and there it was! Thank you, Fritz!
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
Oh, well done! I did not think of searching Trier. *applauds*
selenak: (Malcolm Murray)
From: [personal profile] selenak
Another score! Go you for tracking down Abt the twice dying, that's most impressive, she says in her most sinister Vader voice. BTW,this cross confirmation heightens my confidence that Morgenstern's later life FW factoids are in fact correct. Since he's writing his FW biography in the late 1760s at the earliest and in 1782 at the latest, he also must have a great memory to recall the name of the valets at the time of FW's death, and what subsequently became of them.
felis: (House renfair)
From: [personal profile] felis
Yeah, it's always nice to get confirmation like this. On the other hand, I guess a story like this would have been told and re-told for years - which is probably the reason Morgenstern doesn't elaborate in the first place, assuming that people during his time have heard it and therefore using it as a shorthand to identify Abt.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
(Lord Hervey, somewhere in the hereafter: *spit take*)

Ha!

the poor lady from this point onwards is known as "Sweet Smelling Charlotte" in tout Berlin.

Wow. And I mean, also poor SD, who the entire tobacco parliament now knows smells bad??

At this point, a vague memory made itself known, because yes, in one of the many books I've read this last year it did say William of Orange considered adopting FW as his heir for a while

Yes, it was in Ziebura's Sons book, and when I ran into it, I brought it up and we had this convo and AUs were requested!

Oh, and that thread finally reminds me of what I knew we had found but couldn't remember or find:

FW beats up cousin George when he's 12/13 and George is 17/18. Shortly after F1's coronation.

So yes, that would have been well after they learned to fence. So Morgenstern is saying it wasn't a fistfight but a swordfight? Still humiliating to have reached your adult height and lose to someone who's notoriously short and just about to hit puberty!

also he murdered little baby Friedrich Ludwig with his stupid salute shooting

I had encountered this more than once, but didn't know the source! Was this one of the F1 criticisms that Leineweber says Morgenstern got from Fritz?

I am very hard trying to take this solely as referring to Hephaistion as an example of a "good" favourite here, but you're not making it easy, Morgenstern.

My first reading of this sentence was that his ancestors did not treat their Hephaistions well, but yeah, the homoerotic reading is equally plausible!

Morgenstern, as mentioned, defends FW against the charge of cruelty, a misunderstanding which arose, says he, because "of the beatings, because of the recruitment excesses and because of the strict executions".

Um. I agree that Leineweber has to be onto something here, because my first reaction to this sentence was, "Beatings will continue until morale improves"! (Which is literally what FW told Fritz: I treated you harshly so you would love me and trust me and be more cheerful!)

(Yep, Morgenstern is definitely Klepper's source for postponing FW being abusive to Fritz until 1730.)

*facepalm*

We have documented evidence to the contrary, people!

Also, emotional abuse is super damaging as well!

1.) Abt, who then died twice.

I see [personal profile] cahn had the same reaction I did, which was, "Wait, we're just going to pass over this without comment?" :D It's also very unsearchable, alas.

but for every stroke with the paintbrush which the King didn't manage well, Hänsgen got a rich share of pushes and slaps.

OMG, of course FW beat up his teacher for his own mistakes.

The results of these painting lessons weren't much to look at, though the student easily did as well as the master.

Double burn!

German comedy used to be very bawdy in those days, and so he thought it was too dangerous for the youngsters.

Oh, funny, I feel like we ran into SD forbidding her daughters to attend for this reason?

especially the youngest son, then 6 or 7 years old, calling himself Policinello

Per Wikipedia, this is the name of a particular comic figure in Italian comedy:

Since the time of the Renaissance, this figure has mostly been a sly, cunning--and at the same time simple-minded and foolish--coarse, and voracious servant of peasant origin. The figure mostly had a hump, often a long bird nose, which gave it a fox-like expression.

Of Italian comedy, he liked slapstick, but he was ready to admit that this was not to everyone's taste.

Not according to Wilhelmine! Or at least maybe that concession was specific to Italian slapstick, since he seems to have made everyone sit through German comedy performances that weren't to her taste. :P
selenak: (Wilhelmine und Folichon)
From: [personal profile] selenak
Wow. And I mean, also poor SD, who the entire tobacco parliament now knows smells bad??

Yep. Mind you, joking about the Queen in this way would be kind of suicidal both in the FW era and in the Fritz era (I do think Fritz' tolerance for free speech would end at the first joke about his mother's vagina smells), whereas I susppose noblewoman X is a free shot. Still: men.

So Morgenstern is saying it wasn't a fistfight but a swordfight? Still humiliating to have reached your adult height and lose to someone who's notoriously short and just about to hit puberty!

No kidding. Mind you, Leineweber is a bit sceptical that it was a sword fight and not a fist fight, but if it was, it would additionally explain G2's eagerness for a rematch. (Because let's not forget, he doesn't want just their troops having a go at each other, he wants that personal duel!)


I had encountered this more than once, but didn't know the source! Was this one of the F1 criticisms that Leineweber says Morgenstern got from Fritz?


He doesn't single it out as Fritz derived, no, but it might have been. Sooner or later, one of us will have to read Fritz' "History of the House of Brandenburg", mes amies.

FW learning to paint: OMG, of course FW beat up his teacher for his own mistakes.

Of course he did. That's another job I would not have liked to have had. Note that FW presumably did not ask the official court painter to teach him. I guess even he knew Pesne would have left post haste the first time he did that, as he was famous enough to get other good jobs at other courts.

I suppose at this point I should bring up again one of the authors I read, either Klosterhuis or the Wust historian, I think, who bring up the porphyria theory and at any rate the fact FW was near constantly ill from the later 1720s onwards as an argument that lessens his responsibility for his utter lack of impulse control. However, he was as healthy as he would ever be as a young King (of 25) when hiring Gundling and becoming increasingly abusive towards him,but then, none of the "FW wasn't that bad, Fritz couldn't lose anyway, and Wilhelmine is exaggarating" authors ever mentions him (or Doris Ritter, or the anonymous Jew whom FW was after with his stick when yelling "you should love me, not fear me!".

Double burn!

Indeed. I giggled. This is what gave me the impression Morgenstern really didn't care for Hänsgen.


German comedy used to be very bawdy in those days, and so he thought it was too dangerous for the youngsters.

Oh, funny, I feel like we ran into SD forbidding her daughters to attend for this reason?


Stratemann mentions it in his dispatches. And speaking of Stratemann, he also contradicts Morgenstern's claim the kids, including his favourites, didn't get anything but friendly looks, kisses and check stroking from FW. (Though of course FW may have become even more thrifty in his last four years, which was when Morgenstern knew him.) As a reminder, Stratemann reports: fireworks for kid AW (and miniature canons) in 1729, and let's not forget Christmas 1730 (did something happen?), when our Braunschweig envoy writes this: The court jeweller has created presents in gold and silver in the worth of 12/m Reichstaler, of which the Queen had golden pieces for her cabinet, the princes and princesses had silver lates. Princess Charlotte, our Prince of Bevern's bride, received an expensive jewel, some silver kitchen supply, shovels and pliers, and a few pretty things to dress herself up. His Highness her groom shall receive a set of laces, next to a golden set Point d'Espange and other treats sent to him on the occasion of Holy Christ's feast. Now the Princess Ulrike had asked for a while to receive the King's portrait as a Christmas present, and it was among her gifts; when the third prince (i.e. Heinrich) noticed, he asked for a portrait as well, and did receive one, about which this princess showed herself somewhat disgusted. The King went on Christmas Eve in his own person with an entourage to the local Christmas Market and bought entertaining pleasantries for the little princes and princesses. (...) At the first day of Christmas, the widowed Madam General v. Dörfling had had carried a good bowl of cooked Sauerkraut with a roasted fat goose to the palace, as his Majestly loves to eat this dish, and on the holiday a bowl with beautiful apples, which has been received very graciously.

Later, we have, in the summer of 1731: (S)ince the oldest Princess has submitted herself completely to the King's will, she's been gifted with much rich clothing, a purse and other precious triflings; and thus there can be no doubt (as to the reconciliation). Princess Ulrike, who since a year has been the King's greatest favourite and had been preferred to her older sister Sophie, has now been degraded due to a minor mistake. Despite her being only eleven years of Age, she still possess a great mind and thus a noble spirit; and thus she's very touchy about this and torments herself: at the King's demand, the Queen has taken the diamond earrings which the Queen of Sweden had given (Ulrike) some years ago away, and then she had to sit at the table with her youngest sister Princess (Amalie) despite having been allowed to sit for a year at the King's table.

Policinello: thank you for the data. I wonder whether the youngest prince means literally the youngest prince, i.e. Ferdinand, which would put this event in 1736 or 1737, or the youngest prince at the time it happened, in which case it could have been Heinrich or even AW. Now if it was Ferdinand, Morgenstern could have witnessed it himself, but what makes me hesitate is that this would be rather late in life for FW to object ot French comedy. Incidentally, if Policinello is traditionally depicted with a humpback, I can think of another reason why FW finds it objectionable for one of his sons to play the role - his father, F1, who had a humpback and hence the nickname "der schiefe Fritz".

Btw, that this happened per se, I do believe, because children after watching a play calling each other with the names of the characters and playing them is definitely a thing, especially this bunch of kids, most of whom in various degrees are into performing later.

FW admitting it's not to everyone's taste doesn't mean FW won't make everyone watch it! Just that in Morgenstern's hearing he's been known to say, yeah, okay, I like it but I get that not everyone does.





mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
However, he was as healthy as he would ever be as a young King (of 25) when hiring Gundling and becoming increasingly abusive towards him,

I've seen the bad health argument, and while I'm sure the flare-ups didn't help, and I *know* the alcohol consumption didn't help, let's not remember that the Tiny Terror years were equally out of control! Between swallowing shoelaces/shoe fasteners, standing on the ledge of a window and threatening to jump to get his way, throwing his chamberlain out the window, beating up G2, beating up the Prince of Courland...his track record is pretty damn consistent throughout his life.

I wonder whether the youngest prince means literally the youngest prince, i.e. Ferdinand, which would put this event in 1736 or 1737, or the youngest prince at the time it happened, in which case it could have been Heinrich or even AW.

I was wondering the exact same thing.

FW admitting it's not to everyone's taste doesn't mean FW won't make everyone watch it!

Fair!

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