cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 23

cahn

aaaaaand it's time for a new discussion post! :D (you guys are so fast!)

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From:

selenak

Yay! I had a very quick overview and see this is a neat counterpoint to Patrick Boran’s dissertation by putting the emphasis on Mitchell’s scholarly side and his cultural activities as part of his diplomatic efforts and what made him so successful with Fritz (until no more subsidies) and in Berlin in general. There’s an entire chapter on Mitchell’s (ultimately hopeless, but noble) attempt to get Fritz more involved with German literature by introducing him to some actual German writers, and one of the attachments is a list of everyone Mitchell nominated and sponsored for membership in the Royal Society in London. Three candidates we know: Algarotti (of course he did), Manteuffel (yes, really! Two years before Mantteuffel’s death, in the 1740s, long before Mitchell ever met Fritz), and, near the end of Mitchell’s own life, in 1766, Sir William Hamilton (envoy to Naples, future husband of Emma, etc.) Speaking of Sir William, the thesis write uses him and Charles Hanbury Williams as two extremes of being a British envoy, with CHW being all about making personal connections to top people (which worked in St. Petersburg but nowhere else) while remaining a total stranger to the local cultural scene (see CHW writing disdainful reports not just on Fritz but Berlin), while Sir William Hamilton, between being a noted volcanologist exploring the Vesuvius, being involved in the digs at Pompeii and networking with all the culturally interested visitors coming to Naples like Goethe, was deeply involved in the local cultural scene but without big political influence on the local top guy (Ferdinand the ultra childish butt slapper), at least until Emma befriends Queen Maria Carolina.

Back to Mitchell’s nominations: given that Algarotti was a European celebrity and Mitchell a young unknown Scottish lawyer just starting in politics in the early 1740s, you’d expect the nominating to go the other way around, but no, it’s Mitchell who is the Royal Society member and nominates Algarotti. That he nominates Manteuffel in 1747, otoh, says something about Manteuffel’s international reputation as a patron of the arts and sciences, since I doubt they met in person (Mitchell’s years abroad did not include trips to Saxony or Prussia). Sir William Hamilton he could have met in his short time back in London between the end of the 7 Years War and London sending him again to Prussia in 1765, but they might also have known each other from earlier, because young Andrew Mitchell’s political alliances among the Whigs in the late 1730s were just the opposite of Lord Hervey’s - he was with the anti-Robert Walpole faction and hung out with Fritz of Wales’ supporters for a while, and Sir William’s mother, lest we forget, was that lady Hervey insists had an affair with Fritz of Wales and who at any rate then became chief lady in waiting to Fritz of Wales’ wife Augusta, which is why William and future G3 basically grew up together.

ETA: it also shows that the "Fritz cried at Mitchell's funeral" story which partly still makes it into modern biographies is a fabrication with no contemporary evidence; it first shows up in later 19th century accounts, but isn't mentioned in any contemporary documents. The most detailed account of a wake for dead Mitchell is apparantly in the original undoctored French version (thesis writer is aware there's a doctored one) of Thiebault's memoirs and it's not about the funeral directly but about Mitchell's friends, including Heinrich, having come together to celebrate him by putting up the now completed bust showing him in the (now destroyed Dorotheenkirche), then afterwards having a get together in his honor where they talk of great memories and tell stories etc. Otoh, the writer als says that Thiebault's earlier claim that Mitchell died in pain without any doctors attending him was already protested by Bisset who pointed out there are bills for three different doctors treating him in his final illness in Mitchell's papers, so even undoctored Thiebault is not exactly Mr. Reliable in matters Mitchell.

Mind you: the same PhD writer earlier demonstrates he, too, hasn't read Koser's Catt-demolishing preface by taking the memoirs as utterly reliable and proving Catt's closeness to Fritz. (Perhaps he's only read Rosebery's translation?) As the memoirs contain several Mitchell-friendly stories, I can see why he wanted to quote them, but still. He also, dutifully if regretfully, includes Mitchell's less than complimentary ("emptiest, silliest fellow I ever met") description of Catt.

Edited Date: 2021-02-16 06:22 am (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Royal Reader is fast as always! Thank you for this.

ETA: it also shows that the "Fritz cried at Mitchell's funeral" story which partly still makes it into modern biographies is a fabrication with no contemporary evidence;

Huuuhh. I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but this is so random I wasn't expecting it. What was it

cahn said recently, "EVERYTHING IS UNRELIABLE"?

even undoctored Thiebault is not exactly Mr. Reliable in matters Mitchell.he, too, hasn't read Koser's Catt-demolishing preface by taking the memoirs as utterly reliable and proving Catt's closeness to Fritz.

*facepalm*

(Perhaps he's only read Rosebery's translation?)

Perhaps! (Rosebery writes the introduction, btw; the translator is one F.S. Flint.) The second paragraph of Rosebery's intro opens with:

Catt's narrative is one of the most faithful portraits of that monarch that we possess.

GAH. *more facepalming* So what I'm getting out of this is that it's high time for a scholarly article on why Catt can't be trusted! Let me finish learning German, read Koser's preface, learn French, read Catt's memoirs and Voltaire's back-to-back and see if I can spot any more potential plagiarisms (and of course read the diary), and then see if I feel like writing an essay. We would be doing the field a service!

From:

cahn

So what I'm getting out of this is that it's high time for a scholarly article on why Catt can't be trusted! Let me finish learning German, read Koser's preface, learn French, read Catt's memoirs and Voltaire's back-to-back and see if I can spot any more potential plagiarisms (and of course read the diary), and then see if I feel like writing an essay. We would be doing the field a service!

DOOOO IT! Please!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Well, I'm planning on doing all of the steps listed before the essay, so...we'll see if that translates into an article! (Scholarly articles are like fanfics for me: I have 1,000 ideas, of which 50 make it into notes and outlines and snippets in my drafts folders, of which 5 make it to academic journals or AO3, respectively. Rheinsberg is much easier. ;) )

I will at least tell you guys if I find any more overlap between Catt and Voltaire, though. It'll be good for my French, and I'm curious!

From:

cahn

There’s an entire chapter on Mitchell’s (ultimately hopeless, but noble) attempt to get Fritz more involved with German literature by introducing him to some actual German writers

Yeah, basically it's always true that the more I hear about Mitchell the more awesome I think he is :D

Three candidates we know: Algarotti (of course he did)

HAHAHAHAHA

it also shows that the "Fritz cried at Mitchell's funeral" story which partly still makes it into modern biographies is a fabrication with no contemporary evidence;

what

the same PhD writer earlier demonstrates he, too, hasn't read Koser's Catt-demolishing preface by taking the memoirs as utterly reliable and proving Catt's closeness to Fritz.

oh noooo. CATT!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Three candidates we know: Algarotti (of course he did)

HAHAHAHAHA

Oh, was this news to you guys? I suppose I didn't bring it up when I encountered it in the Algarotti dissertation. I thought I had put it in the chronology, but apparently all I put was that Algarotti was elected. Anyway, yeah, Algarotti was looking for a job, and immediately (less than a month) after arriving in England, gets himself made a Fellow of the Royal Society. It's all part of his great networking scheme to get his dream job! And yes, Mitchell, who had been in England longer than 3 weeks, was already a member and sponsored him (and generally helped introduce him to people as part of the great networking scheme).

From:

cahn

Mostly I was laughing because ~~like I keep saying about Fritz and Voltaire~~ I am also a metaphorical teenager and was thinking about Mitchell and Algarotti being lovers, and Mitchell putting up his glamorous Italian lover for sponsorship. :D