Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 23

[cahn]

aaaaaand it's time for a new discussion post! :D (you guys are so fast!)

Comments

Re: Suhm about Fritz (?)

[selenak]

Brühl is asking for character portraits on Fritz from Suhm, (who is apparently not on good terms with Brühl, at least according to the ever-poorly-informed Stratemann)

Correction: Stratemann says nothing about Suhm's relationship with Brühl. He says that rumor has it (in the late 1720s) that being "a creature of Flemming", Flemming being the PM in a feud with Countess Cosel majorly responsible for her fall, Suhm was recalled and then sent to Königsstein after Flemming lost the ministry and his life. However, this was not due to Brühl, who wasn't top dog yet, but a young up and rising guy. Flemming was replaced as the most important minister in August the Strong's cabinet by Hoym, something the expensive source with partly googlebable text felis linked points out. Whether or not Hoym was bad news for Suhm (though the Königstein rumor is definitely wrong), Hoym definetley spelled trouble to Mantteuffel, who at this point had held a post in August's cabinet himself and prudently resigned, withdrawing to that country seat Sorgenfrei whose name the expensive source swears was the original for Sanssouci. (Until becoming envoy to Prussia again.) However, Hoym in turn fell, rather nastily, too, which included an accusation and condemnation for incest with his niece (!!!! this in Saxony, where August supposedly, well, you know), was arrested and interned at Königstein, committed suicide, and had his body hung from the walls of Königstein for two weeks as a warning example afterwards. Apparently Mantteuffel discusses this in his correspondence with Fritz (which is at Trier), as despite his own enmity with the man it shocked him. (Or so he said.) And then it was Sulkowski and Brühl time, and ultimately just Brühl time in terms of top ministers in Saxony. Considering Brühl was about to oust Sulkowski for good by the time Suhm was appointed for the Petersburg job (which was prestigious), I very much doubt Brühl had a problem with Suhm.

felis mentioning Suhm's report and part of Mantteufel's post, not pre coronation report is in Volz made me check Volz again, which brought up some other stuff, but none of it is about Suhm, so I'll report it elsewhere.

ETA: the expensive source with partly goggleable text also cleared up something I've been curious about, i.e. who, Mantteuffel or Voltaire, got Fritz' "I'm the Alcibiades to your Socrates!" present of a golden portrait knob on a stick first - it was Mantteuffel.

Re: Suhm about Fritz (?)

[cahn]

I am mostly just following this whole thread and all of you in glee, and have nothing to really contribute so I haven't been saying much, but I must say it made me smile that now we know who got the golden portrait knob on a stick first :D

Re: Suhm about Fritz (?)

[mildred_of_midgard]

Flemming was replaced as the most important minister in August the Strong's cabinet by Hoym

Aaahhh, thank you. I remembered Flemming but had forgotten he was followed not by Brühl but by Hoym. I do remember Hoym! I remember that he was envoy to France, was recalled, but was suspected of having gone native and of not being loyal to Saxony any more; that he was at Zeithain; that he committed suicide in prison; that we couldn't determine whether he had been Catholic or Protestant (relevant to the acceptability of suicide question).

Considering Brühl was about to oust Sulkowski for good by the time Suhm was appointed for the Petersburg job (which was prestigious), I very much doubt Brühl had a problem with Suhm.

Good to know! Once I read the Saxon diplomacy dissertation, I'm sure I'll be able to keep all the Saxons straight. :)

who, Mantteuffel or Voltaire, got Fritz' "I'm the Alcibiades to your Socrates!" present of a golden portrait knob on a stick first - it was Mantteuffel.

Like cahn, I'm tickled that we find out little things like this.