Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 21
Nov. 13th, 2020 08:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahnMuch slower because of world-events/Life-in-general/Yuletide/holidays, but still going!
End of Yuletide signups:
4 requests for Frederician RPF :D :D 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 2 offers (I hope we did not scare you off, third offer!)
End of Yuletide signups:
4 requests for Frederician RPF :D :D 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 2 offers (I hope we did not scare you off, third offer!)
Re: Fritz-Duhan Follow-Up
Date: 2020-11-18 07:37 am (UTC)Re: Fritz-Duhan Follow-Up
Date: 2020-11-18 04:35 pm (UTC)Because you and I developed a whole theory about what happened to produce this Worst of All Possible Condolence Letters!
Facts:
September 30: Middle brother Albert dies at Soor (not to be confused with youngest brother Franz, who dies later at Hochkirch).
October 2: Fritz writes two lines to EC with virtually no content at all, certainly no mention of her brother. He writes to Fredersdorf that Albert is dead, but that was no great loss.
October 5: EC writes to surviving brother Ferdinand that Albert died in Fritz's service and it's cruel of Fritz not to have written a syllable to her or to sister Louise.
October 9: Fritz writes the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad condolence letter that he'd always told Albert to stop being reckless or he was going to get himself killed, and it's only a surprise it didn't happen sooner.
Other relevant fact: AW was present at Soor.
The theory that you and I came up with: Fritz initially does not write a condolence letter to EC, because he dislikes Albert and has no strong feelings for EC. EC and Louise complain to each other that Albert died in Fritz's service and they haven't heard a word from Fritz. Louise passes these complaints on to AW. AW, ever the family mediator, tries to tactfully suggest to Fritz that maybe it's his job as husband and commander-in-chief to write this letter, even if he didn't like the guy, because he died in Fritz's service.
Cue letter in which a suddenly on the defensive Fritz feels the need to write about how it's not HIS fault that Albert's dead, HE tried to save Albert, it's ALBERT'S fault he wouldn't listen to Fritz, because everyone would be so much better off if they always listened to Fritz.
I think Fritz went from having mildly negative feelings about the parties in involved to suddenly having extremely strong feelings about how it can't possibly be his fault. Hence the tone of this letter matching the first part of the Worst Letter to Heinrich about how AW's estrangement and death were anyone's fault but Fritz's.
So I think it still falls into the category of Fritz's emotional involvement getting in the way of anything like emotional intelligence, only in a different way from the other letters (though the defensiveness is notably common to AW and Albert).
Re: Fritz-Duhan Follow-Up
Date: 2020-11-19 12:50 pm (UTC)I remember the theory well, but I remember your conclusion at the time ws that Fritz decided to write a letter to ensure now one else ever pesters him into writing a condolence letter again. :) More seriously, if we were right, it's intriguing he does feel defensive instead of going "yeah, yeah, now hand over your clean shirts, and can I get some sympathy for fretting about my dogs?"
Re: Fritz-Duhan Follow-Up
Date: 2021-01-15 11:21 pm (UTC)I remember your conclusion at the time ws that Fritz decided to write a letter to ensure now one else ever pesters him into writing a condolence letter again
Lol, I'd forgotten about that, but yes, I did make that joke. Alas! I fear his self-awareness was not that good.
Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 09:43 am (UTC)My dear brother,
I am very sorry to tell you the disagreeable news of your brother Albert's death. He was too brave. I have often written to my sister that I feared some accident for him. But I can assure you at the same time that he did not shame his family. Prince Ferdinand has outdone himself, and I owe him praise that he contributed so much to the victory of this battle.
I beg you to keep your precious friendship for me, and to be convinced of the great tenderness with which I am, my dear brother, etc.
It's interesting that he bascially expresses the same sentiment (Albert was too reckless and that's why he died) as in his October 9th letter to EC, but not as awfully phrased and not with the same level of defensiveness. And I note that when he's writing to the duke, he'd predicted to his sister this would happen, but when he writes to EC, he'd predicted it to the duke.
Re: Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 10:17 am (UTC)Oh, and since I've been rereading Catherine the Great's memoirs because reasons, it amused me that little Sophie thought the court at Braunschweig was much more splendid and cultivated than the court at Berlin during FW's era. This is delicious because of the way all the Hohenzollern, male and female alike, and following their lead the Prussian courtiers like Lehndorff, looked down on the Braunschweig sisters as provincial Cinderellas. (Sophie's parents were related to the Braunschweig clan as well, that's why she was often there as a child.)
Re: Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 12:27 pm (UTC)Which rather makes it sound as if he didn't predict it to anyone (at least not of the Braunschweig clan), though he may have thought it.
Mmhmmm. Side-eyeing you, Fritz.
Still, this is actually a decent letter, leaving the depressing conclusion that it's the EC factor that changes Fritz' emotional disposition from able to come up with a reasonably (for Fritz) good letter to defensive and awfully phrased.
Yes, with a slight twist that he wrote to Fredersdorf that Albert was died, not much lost there, which strikes me as his true opinion of the guy. So while EC is the odd one out in not getting a condolence letter until October 9th, Karl is the odd one out for the sheer amount of diplomacy wrt Fritz's opinion of the guy. Kinda thinking Fritz is invested in keeping the Duke as ally? Whereas he has no reason to be diplomatic with EC or to hide his real feelings with Fredersdorf.
Perhaps he thought Duke Karl hadn't been as keen on brother Albert as EC on the earlier occasion?
Perhaps. Or perhaps the timing is key: he wrote a diplomatic letter of his own free will to the guy he wanted to keep sending family members and subjects to die for the cause of Fritz, then he didn't want to write about Albert to EC at all, then he felt pressured into doing it at week later. I'm still guessing AW used the words "died in your service."
This is delicious because of the way all the Hohenzollern, male and female alike, and following their lead the Prussian courtiers like Lehndorff, looked down on the Braunschweig sisters as provincial Cinderellas.
To be fair, all of the Hohenzollerns by blood or marriage, starting with SD, looked down on FW as a provincial Cinderella, so I'm not sure they would disagree with Sophie's assessment? Especially if FW was actually in residence when she visited, as opposed to just SD.
Re: Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 01:11 pm (UTC)Re: Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 01:15 pm (UTC)Re: Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 02:22 pm (UTC)then he felt pressured into doing it at week later
Yeah, and it also would make sense to me that, given how their relationship started, Fritz would become even more tone-deaf when he feels like he is being pressured into connecting with her. (Stock phrases might have made both your and EC's life easier in this case, Fritz.)
looked down on FW as a provincial Cinderella
Heee. :-D (Totally reminded of the ballet anecdote now.)
Re: Follow-Up Condolence Letters
Date: 2020-11-27 12:29 pm (UTC)