At a guess, Oster trusting Catt is your explanation for four years old Heinrich being declared FW's fave by him; Catt, remember, claims he was. Now of course I'm prepared to be wrong and to have missed something/misremember, but I don't recall that babysitting story during SD's labor from Wilhelmine's memoirs, and a quick cursory check on my kindle copy doesn't give me that story. With your recent far more thorough reading of the year 1730 in her memoirs, do you recall anything like it? So unless Oster provides a different source citation for the anecdote - say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably), I'm going with my "faith in Catt strikes again" guess.
At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore. Note that in the letters from eight years old AW to FW which Cahn could read, which describe what the boys do all day, there's no mention of Mom or their oldest sister anywhere, just of Heinrich and their tutors.
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
No kidding. It really shows how soon she got fixated on that idea.
FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong. Now maybe it's just because Fritz assumes his sister would want to know more about their host, but date wise, it works with when the memoirs say the match was talked about, i.e. between FW's short lived "am gonna abdicate and live the true Christian life with my wife and daughters at Wusterhausen" idea and the Dresden visit. Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
LOL. And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too. Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
Quite. And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
Oster trusting Catt is your explanation for four years old Heinrich being declared FW's fave by him; Catt, remember, claims he was.
Oh, right! I'd forgotten that, but yes. Okay, that makes sense.
So unless Oster provides a different source citation for the anecdote - say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably), I'm going with my "faith in Catt strikes again" guess.
I...I can't tell. Here's the passage:
In dieser Atmosphäre konnte es sogar Wilhelmine wagen, ihrem Vater wieder unter die Augen zu treten, nachdem ihr Brief dessen Zorn bereits hatte erweichen lassen. Auch diese Szene hat der braunschweigische Gesandte am 4. März geschildert: »Wie sie nun ... hereingerufen, habe sich die älteste Prinzessin zu des Königs Füßen geworfen und selbe umfasset; da sie der König bei die Hand genommen und aufstehen heißen. Als sie aber dem König die Hand küssen wollte, war ihr solches resusiret [verwehrt], die Königin ihr darauf einen Wink gebend, war sie [Wilhelmine] dem Könige um den Hals gefallen und ihn geküsset, dabei sagend: ›Papa hat eine Ungnade auf mich geworfen, so mir länger unerträglich fällt. Ich bitte kindlich, Papa lasse mir doch die vorige Gnade wieder verspüren‹; welche Worte die Prinzessin bei Vergießung vieler Tränen hervorgebracht ... Der König habe darauf wieder versetzet: ›Es ist nun alles gut, Wilhelmine, du bist allemal meine liebe Tochter.‹« Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war. »Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzessin ihre Richtigkeit habe.«
The bit about taking care of Heinrich and Heinrich being the favorite aren't in the direct quote. But if they're from Catt and not the envoy, then the "Hieraus" is very misleading, to say the least. So the taking care of Heinrich story looks like it must come from the Brunswick envoy, even if the "he was the favorite" could possibly be an addendum from Catt.
Brunswick envoy on March 4: "Touching reconciliation between Wilhelmine and FW, everybody cries," in direct quote from the envoy report.
End direct quote.
Oster adds that FW is in such a good mood that he tells Wilhelmine, while SD is in childbed, to take care of Heinrich, who at the time was his favorite.
Resume Brunswick envoy direct quote: "From this, we can [or "we'd like to"?] conclude that the reconciliation between the King and Princess is real." [I'm taking "ihre Richtigkeit habe" to mean "has veracity," i.e. "is real," and the context to be the fact that just in the last month, the envoys have been writing home, "Is FW really being nice to Fritz, or is this just a show for our benefit?"]
So while I don't remember this anecdote from the memoirs, to answer selenak's question, the anecdote itself seems to be real, though I can't tell whether the envoy vouches for Heinrich being the favorite that year. (If he was, I really want to know what happened to make AW lose that spot temporarily.)
I also don't remember this anecdote from Catt, which is not to say it's not there, though I do remember Heinrich being the favorite, now that I'm reminded.
[ETA: Though I should add that I do remember, if my memory isn't faulty, a very similar episode earlier in the memoirs in which Wilhelmine was given charge of a different younger sibling or siblings. I will need to look that up.]
say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably)
Oster actually quotes a lot from Stratemann, the Brunswick envoy, whom I didn't know about. As I said, there's a lot of good, new-to-me information in this book, and I'm glad I'm reading it!
At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore.
Honorary position just to show that she's in favor again? I'm not sure, I was wondering this myself. And yes, I did wonder how this worked with him being in AW's household now.
Good question!
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
Please do, when you get the chance (I know you're traveling), and let me know where you find it, if you do. I'm interested in this sort of thing, and my admittedly cursory Google didn't turn anything up. If I have time, I might do a more thorough Googling.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong.
Oh, right! I'm so glad there are two of us: I remember the things you forget, and you remember the things I forget. :D
Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
This makes total sense.
And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too.
Right? I mean, most people who aren't Louise do, but seriously. Powder keg, lit fuse...disaster waiting to happen.
Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
Sadly, as much as Fritz has a praise kink, I have my doubts about her chances of success.
And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
Clearly, we'll have to read up on Stratemann of Brunswick, too, to find out whether he reports the "take charge of the (so far) youngest "story as well or whether Oster has it from another source. Also, like you so often said, Mildred: the envoys are where it's at! :)
More seriously, given AW gets Fritz' regiment toute suite that year and is made Colonel, and we have sunny letters to Dad which Ziebura quotes, I'm not sure what would have made FW temporarily rearrange his favourites children list. I mean, he was in a spectacularly bad mood for much of the year as well, as amply documented in the Fritzian context, so he may not have needed a reason, but it would still be very surprising, especially since Heinrich doesn't rate individual instructions to his stewards but is lumped under "the young princes" together with Ferdinand, and I'm sure that if Ziebura had found an FW remark especially about Heinrich indicating favor, she'd have quoted it, having gone through not just the published but the unpublished family correspondance at the state archive. Usually if you like a kid best, you talk about said kid. Not to mention that apparantly we have letters from Wilhelmine, from Fritz, from Charlotte and from AW to FW in the archive, all of which I've seen quoted, but not from child Heinrich. At a guess, if a letter from child!Wilhelmine survives in which she sends Dad her drawn tooth, a letter from temporary fave Heinrich would have been preserved as well, if such a letter had existed.
All this said: as long as they are babies and toddlers, the youngest children of a large family tend to be either neglected or spoiled, no? Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality. That's always assuming the Brunswick envoy did report this, as opposed to Oster getting his info from Catt.
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Clearly, we'll have to read up on Stratemann of Brunswick
Great minds think alike! A quick glance through Oster when I was doing that write-up didn't show me what the source for Stratemann is, nor have I googled, but those items are on my to-do list.
Also, like you so often said, Mildred: the envoys are where it's at! :)
Also exactly what I was thinking when I realized we have a new envoy!
Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality.
Maybe? And as you've pointed out, AW was Heinrich's hero, so maybe FW heard about how Heinrich just adored his new roommate and looked up to him in everything, and FW thought, "That boy's going places!" (He is, just not in the way you might think, FW.)
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Oh, Förster, you're right! Hmm, I've put "Förster detective work" on my to-do list, assuming you don't get around to "Förster write-up from the royal reader" first. ;)
Clearly, we'll have to read up on Stratemann of Brunswick, too
Update: a 300-page volume of envoy reports from Stratemann for 1728-1733 (sweeeet!) has been obtained, and will be uploaded to the library when I wake up. :)
Fingers crossed I can get volume 3 of the Lady Mary letters after receiving a duplicate copy of volume 1 today, because it was only $13, and the next cheapest copy is like $40. Awaiting word from the bookseller. Volumes 1-2 are safely in hand, and will be digitized and uploaded at some point.
ETA: Though I should add that I do remember, if my memory isn't faulty, a very similar episode earlier in the memoirs in which Wilhelmine was given charge of a different younger sibling or siblings. I will need to look that up.
I was not misremembering! This passage is from 1725, so the year Wilhelmine turned 16:
In the mean time I was at Berlin in great favour with the king: I passed every afternoon in conversation with him, and he used to sup in my room. He even shewed me some confidence, and often spoke of state affairs. To give me a still greater mark of distinction, he ordered me to hold a drawing-room like the queen. The governesses of my sisters were placed under my command, and had orders not to stir a step without my knowledge. I did not abuse the king’s favour. Young as I was, there was as much solidity in my conduct then, as there can be now ; and I might have superintended the education of my sisters: but I did myself justice, and clearly perceived that it did not become me; neither would I hold a drawing room. I contented myself with inviting a few ladies every day.
So I think it's possible we'll find Heinrich in her care in the Stratemann volume tomorrow.
Found it! It's the entry on March 4th 1730. Heinrich isn't called FW's favourite (and btw, this Ambassador has a lot about AW earlier just by name searching, FW is even supposed to have given AW Wusterhausen, and organizes special fireworks for him, AW is described as his firm favourite), and it's only the second time he shows up at all (earlier, Stratmann notes he's joined AW's household), but Wilhelmine is told to look after him (in one particular situation) as a sign of FW's forgiveness. The situation: SD has a difficult pregnany, FW tells his "Fieke" that God has given her to him for 24 yers now, he wants to keep her, God can do to the baby whatever he wants as long as he lets FW keep SD. Then he asks her whether she wants to see her children. SD says yes, and that the two oldest should be in the antechambre. FW allows all to enter, enter they do, he's greeted but refuses to give Wilhelmine his hand to kiss because he's still angry. SD gives Wilhelmine a signal, Wilhelmine puts her arms around FW's neck, cries and pleads for him to show her his grace again, he says "It is alright, Wilhelmine, you are my dear daughter".
In the evening, the kids all dine in the antechambre, FW keeps going between the antechambre and SD's bedroom and:
Des Abends hatten alle Königliche Kinder in der VorCammer speisen müssen, da der König zwischen der Königinn Bette und solcher Tafel beständig, unter lieblichen Anreden, spazieren gangen; und wie Se. Majestät angemercket, daß der kleinste Prinz Heinrich geweint, und nach der Ursache gefraget, der Cron-Printz auch darauf geantwortet: daß sein Bruder von den Fischen eßen wollte, so man Ihm gegen die Nacht zu geben weigerte; hatte der König zu der ältesten Prinzeß gesaget: Wilhelmine! gib du Ihm nur ein wenig und will ich dir hiermit aufgetragen haben: daß du, so lange Mama krank ist, Sorge vor Heinrichen trägest. Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzeß ihre Richtigkeit habe, da sonst der König, wegen Ihr angetragener aber von Ihr refusierter sichern Mariage mit Ihr in einigen Wochen nicht sprechen wollen; woher dann auch der lieben Königinn Maladie wohl guten Theils ihren Ursprung genommen haben mag.
From the Rokoko German (he's a Braunschweig envoy and apparantly not fluent in French, he writes German): "...and when his majesty noticed that the smallest Prince, Heinrich, was crying, and asked for the cause, the Crown Prince replied that his brother had wanted to eat from the fish which had been refused to him to eat in the evening; then the King told the oldest Princess: Wilhelmine! do give him a bit, and I want to charge you to look after Heinrich as long as Mama is still so ill. From this, one wants to conclude that the reconciliation between the King and the Princess is for real, for otherwise the King due to the marriage she'd been offered and she'd had refused had himself refused to speak to her for several weeks now; which may have been the cause of the malady of the dear queen.
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Thank you! Rococo babysitting: not just for older brothers. :D
this Ambassador has a lot about AW earlier just by name searching, FW is even supposed to have given AW Wusterhausen, and organizes special fireworks for him, AW is described as his firm favourite
Sounds like another valuable envoy for us. :)
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Thank you! Rococo babysitting: not just for older brothers. :D
Fritz: Though did anyone notice my statement was the reason why the brat got his bloody fish? And did he say thank you? Ha. Gratitude and Heinrich were strangers from the beginning.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-27 04:28 am (UTC)At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore. Note that in the letters from eight years old AW to FW which Cahn could read, which describe what the boys do all day, there's no mention of Mom or their oldest sister anywhere, just of Heinrich and their tutors.
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
No kidding. It really shows how soon she got fixated on that idea.
FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong. Now maybe it's just because Fritz assumes his sister would want to know more about their host, but date wise, it works with when the memoirs say the match was talked about, i.e. between FW's short lived "am gonna abdicate and live the true Christian life with my wife and daughters at Wusterhausen" idea and the Dresden visit. Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
LOL. And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too. Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
Quite. And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-27 02:44 pm (UTC)Oh, right! I'd forgotten that, but yes. Okay, that makes sense.
So unless Oster provides a different source citation for the anecdote - say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably), I'm going with my "faith in Catt strikes again" guess.
I...I can't tell. Here's the passage:
In dieser Atmosphäre konnte es sogar Wilhelmine wagen, ihrem Vater wieder unter die Augen zu treten, nachdem ihr Brief dessen Zorn bereits hatte erweichen lassen. Auch diese Szene hat der braunschweigische Gesandte am 4. März geschildert: »Wie sie nun ... hereingerufen, habe sich die älteste Prinzessin zu des Königs Füßen geworfen und selbe umfasset; da sie der König bei die Hand genommen und aufstehen heißen. Als sie aber dem König die Hand küssen wollte, war ihr solches resusiret [verwehrt], die Königin ihr darauf einen Wink gebend, war sie [Wilhelmine] dem Könige um den Hals gefallen und ihn geküsset, dabei sagend: ›Papa hat eine Ungnade auf mich geworfen, so mir länger unerträglich fällt. Ich bitte kindlich, Papa lasse mir doch die vorige Gnade wieder verspüren‹; welche Worte die Prinzessin bei Vergießung vieler Tränen hervorgebracht ... Der König habe darauf wieder versetzet: ›Es ist nun alles gut, Wilhelmine, du bist allemal meine liebe Tochter.‹« Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war. »Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzessin ihre Richtigkeit habe.«
The bit about taking care of Heinrich and Heinrich being the favorite aren't in the direct quote. But if they're from Catt and not the envoy, then the "Hieraus" is very misleading, to say the least. So the taking care of Heinrich story looks like it must come from the Brunswick envoy, even if the "he was the favorite" could possibly be an addendum from Catt.
Brunswick envoy on March 4: "Touching reconciliation between Wilhelmine and FW, everybody cries," in direct quote from the envoy report.
End direct quote.
Oster adds that FW is in such a good mood that he tells Wilhelmine, while SD is in childbed, to take care of Heinrich, who at the time was his favorite.
Resume Brunswick envoy direct quote: "From this, we can [or "we'd like to"?] conclude that the reconciliation between the King and Princess is real." [I'm taking "ihre Richtigkeit habe" to mean "has veracity," i.e. "is real," and the context to be the fact that just in the last month, the envoys have been writing home, "Is FW really being nice to Fritz, or is this just a show for our benefit?"]
So while I don't remember this anecdote from the memoirs, to answer
I also don't remember this anecdote from Catt, which is not to say it's not there, though I do remember Heinrich being the favorite, now that I'm reminded.
[ETA: Though I should add that I do remember, if my memory isn't faulty, a very similar episode earlier in the memoirs in which Wilhelmine was given charge of a different younger sibling or siblings. I will need to look that up.]
say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably)
Oster actually quotes a lot from Stratemann, the Brunswick envoy, whom I didn't know about. As I said, there's a lot of good, new-to-me information in this book, and I'm glad I'm reading it!
At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore.
Honorary position just to show that she's in favor again? I'm not sure, I was wondering this myself. And yes, I did wonder how this worked with him being in AW's household now.
Good question!
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
Please do, when you get the chance (I know you're traveling), and let me know where you find it, if you do. I'm interested in this sort of thing, and my admittedly cursory Google didn't turn anything up. If I have time, I might do a more thorough Googling.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong.
Oh, right! I'm so glad there are two of us: I remember the things you forget, and you remember the things I forget. :D
Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
This makes total sense.
And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too.
Right? I mean, most people who aren't Louise do, but seriously. Powder keg, lit fuse...disaster waiting to happen.
Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
Sadly, as much as Fritz has a praise kink, I have my doubts about her chances of success.
And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
*snort*
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-28 12:43 pm (UTC)More seriously, given AW gets Fritz' regiment toute suite that year and is made Colonel, and we have sunny letters to Dad which Ziebura quotes, I'm not sure what would have made FW temporarily rearrange his favourites children list. I mean, he was in a spectacularly bad mood for much of the year as well, as amply documented in the Fritzian context, so he may not have needed a reason, but it would still be very surprising, especially since Heinrich doesn't rate individual instructions to his stewards but is lumped under "the young princes" together with Ferdinand, and I'm sure that if Ziebura had found an FW remark especially about Heinrich indicating favor, she'd have quoted it, having gone through not just the published but the unpublished family correspondance at the state archive. Usually if you like a kid best, you talk about said kid. Not to mention that apparantly we have letters from Wilhelmine, from Fritz, from Charlotte and from AW to FW in the archive, all of which I've seen quoted, but not from child Heinrich. At a guess, if a letter from child!Wilhelmine survives in which she sends Dad her drawn tooth, a letter from temporary fave Heinrich would have been preserved as well, if such a letter had existed.
All this said: as long as they are babies and toddlers, the youngest children of a large family tend to be either neglected or spoiled, no? Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality. That's always assuming the Brunswick envoy did report this, as opposed to Oster getting his info from Catt.
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-28 11:46 pm (UTC)Great minds think alike! A quick glance through Oster when I was doing that write-up didn't show me what the source for Stratemann is, nor have I googled, but those items are on my to-do list.
Also, like you so often said, Mildred: the envoys are where it's at! :)
Also exactly what I was thinking when I realized we have a new envoy!
Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality.
Maybe? And as you've pointed out, AW was Heinrich's hero, so maybe FW heard about how Heinrich just adored his new roommate and looked up to him in everything, and FW thought, "That boy's going places!" (He is, just not in the way you might think, FW.)
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Oh, Förster, you're right! Hmm, I've put "Förster detective work" on my to-do list, assuming you don't get around to "Förster write-up from the royal reader" first. ;)
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 03:14 am (UTC)Update: a 300-page volume of envoy reports from Stratemann for 1728-1733 (sweeeet!) has been obtained, and will be uploaded to the library when I wake up. :)
Fingers crossed I can get volume 3 of the Lady Mary letters after receiving a duplicate copy of volume 1 today, because it was only $13, and the next cheapest copy is like $40. Awaiting word from the bookseller. Volumes 1-2 are safely in hand, and will be digitized and uploaded at some point.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 07:46 am (UTC)Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 01:54 pm (UTC)Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 03:20 am (UTC)I was not misremembering! This passage is from 1725, so the year Wilhelmine turned 16:
In the mean time I was at Berlin in great favour with the king: I passed every afternoon in conversation with him, and he used to sup in my room. He even shewed me some confidence, and often spoke of state affairs. To give me a still greater mark of distinction, he ordered me to hold a drawing-room like the queen. The governesses of my sisters were placed under my command, and had orders not to stir a step without my knowledge. I did not abuse the king’s favour. Young as I was, there was as much solidity in my conduct then, as there can be now ; and I might have superintended the education of my sisters: but I did myself justice, and clearly perceived that it did not become me; neither would I hold a drawing room. I contented myself with inviting a few ladies every day.
So I think it's possible we'll find Heinrich in her care in the Stratemann volume tomorrow.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 03:59 pm (UTC)FW allows all to enter, enter they do, he's greeted but refuses to give Wilhelmine his hand to kiss because he's still angry. SD gives Wilhelmine a signal, Wilhelmine puts her arms around FW's neck, cries and pleads for him to show her his grace again, he says "It is alright, Wilhelmine, you are my dear daughter".
In the evening, the kids all dine in the antechambre, FW keeps going between the antechambre and SD's bedroom and:
Des Abends hatten alle Königliche Kinder in der VorCammer speisen müssen, da der König zwischen der Königinn Bette und solcher Tafel beständig, unter lieblichen Anreden, spazieren gangen; und wie Se. Majestät angemercket, daß der kleinste Prinz Heinrich
geweint, und nach der Ursache gefraget, der Cron-Printz auch darauf geantwortet: daß sein Bruder von den Fischen eßen wollte, so man Ihm gegen die Nacht zu geben weigerte; hatte der König zu der ältesten Prinzeß gesaget: Wilhelmine! gib du Ihm nur ein wenig und will ich dir hiermit aufgetragen haben: daß du, so lange Mama krank ist, Sorge vor Heinrichen trägest. Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzeß ihre Richtigkeit habe, da sonst der König, wegen Ihr angetragener aber von Ihr refusierter sichern Mariage mit Ihr in einigen Wochen nicht sprechen wollen; woher dann auch der lieben Königinn Maladie wohl guten Theils ihren Ursprung genommen haben mag.
From the Rokoko German (he's a Braunschweig envoy and apparantly not fluent in French, he writes German): "...and when his majesty noticed that the smallest Prince, Heinrich, was crying, and asked for the cause, the Crown Prince replied that his brother had wanted to eat from the fish which had been refused to him to eat in the evening; then the King told the oldest Princess: Wilhelmine! do give him a bit, and I want to charge you to look after Heinrich as long as Mama is still so ill. From this, one wants to conclude that the reconciliation between the King and the Princess is for real, for otherwise the King due to the marriage she'd been offered and she'd had refused had himself refused to speak to her for several weeks now; which may have been the cause of the malady of the dear queen.
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 04:16 pm (UTC)this Ambassador has a lot about AW earlier just by name searching, FW is even supposed to have given AW Wusterhausen, and organizes special fireworks for him, AW is described as his firm favourite
Sounds like another valuable envoy for us. :)
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Yep, I bet that's it.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-30 09:46 am (UTC)Fritz: Though did anyone notice my statement was the reason why the brat got his bloody fish? And did he say thank you? Ha. Gratitude and Heinrich were strangers from the beginning.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-10-02 04:37 am (UTC)