cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 18

...apparently reading group is the way to get lots of comments quickly?

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From:

cahn

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From:

cahn

Continued from last post:

Could she have been so repulsive as Lord Egmont describes her -a fat and ill-shaped dwarf,with nothing good to recommend her, neither sense nor wit ?

*sigh* Misogyny strikes again!

In wishing to love the Prince so well he had ' ly'd egregiously; I am as incapable of wishing to love any Body else so well, as I am of wishing to love You less. God forbid any Mortal should ever have the power over me you have, or that you should ever have less. ... Adieu ,if Iwas to fill a thousand Reams of paper it would be only aiming in different phrases & still imperfectly to tell you the same thing, & assure you that since I first knew you I have been without repenting & still am & ever shall be undividedly & indisolubly Yours.'

LOLOLOL. Man, my days of considering this a gigantic soap opera are certainly reaching a middle.

The fact that he allowed other scandalous revelations (Miss Vane as Hervey's mistress, for example ) to remain in the copy of thememoirs is evidence that what he read and destroyed for the years 1730 to 1732 he regarded as far too shocking to remain among his family papers in either the autograph or the copy.

!
~~maybe it was a hot threesome~~
...I see that mildred has already had this thought!

From:

cahn

I've totally lost track of where we were in comments, mildred, so I'm just going to go by section :) This seemed like kind of a long section, but I guess seven years is a long time!

When Louise found out about this, she told her brother sadly and bitterly: His silence stems from the fact that he has too much to write, especially to my sister-in-law Wilhelmine.

Aw, Louise. <3

Elisabeth Christine let everyone feel through her imperious nature that she was finally the only queen.

Is this right? Huh. I guess I can understan why EC might want to punch down herself a little for a brief moment ~~until Fritz puts a stop to that~~

Aw, I remember

selenak telling us about that passage where Lehndorff is rolling his eyes that Mina is so upset about Heinrich's wound. It's still pretty funny to me :P

I was really comforted and satisfied that [I am] popular. I don't know how I earned this.

Awww, Louise! No wonder everyone thinks she's so nice <3

He had the look on the face of an angel that he really is now, Louise informed her brother, maybe it is a good thing that he died in his innocence, without knowing anything about the misery and grief in this world. But for a mother's tender heart, it is a terrible pain.

:((((((
...what a year for her :( I can see how she might think that maybe he was well out of it :( But still so sad :((

Okay, Es war sein Verlobungsring -- this is translated as "engagement ring"? Did AW give Mina his engagement ring?? I mean, I guess it's not quite as bad as giving her his kids, but...

...Geez Heinrich, WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN TO MINA. Rhetorical question. But really. Still glad we're reading this after the other Zieburas!

Edited Date: 2020-09-15 05:31 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

*sigh* Misogyny strikes again!

Indeed. The sheer level of body shaming combined with misogyny in the 18th century is enormous. (And continues into the 19th, of course; most of the caricatures aimed at Emma Hamilton even before Nelson dies present her as enormously fat. (She did gain weight even before Nelson died, but she also was pregnant twice (the second time she lost the child).) As to Miss Anne Vane, no one, including Halsband, bothers to explain why if she had no inner or outer qualities, and wasn't rich or titled, men kept being attracted to her. More soap opera:

Once Miss Vane's position as the Prince of Wales's mistress was conspicuously secure, Hervey's emotions shifted from jealousy (for having been betrayed) to resentment, far more intense, that she had induced the Prince to discard him as intimate adviser in favour of Dodington. He determined in April 1732 to revive the Prince's friendship for him , and went about it in a foolhardy fashion . Since Miss Vane had ruined that friendship , he reasoned, then she could restore it.He composed a letter and asked his brother-in -law Bussy Mansel to take it to her, telling him that it merely recommended a midwife. Actually it castigated her for the ill service she had done him with the Prince , and threatened that if she did not repair the breach he would divulge what he knew ofher, and use her as she deserved .Upon reading this scathing letter she fell into hysterics ; and Mansel, when he read it, swore he would kill Hervey for deceiving him by making him the messenger of such an affront. To prevent murder Miss Vane then told the Prince of the letter, and he somehow placated Mansel but bitterly resented Hervey's ill treatment of his mistress. The King, Queen , and Walpole, when they heard of it, were also incensed with Hervey for his interference in a Royal pastime.
Aware too late of his iinprudence, Hervey tried to make amends. The King and Queen (and of course Walpole ) were satisfied by his penitence but not the Prince, who ( in Hervey's opinion ) ‘never forgot an injury or remembered an obligation ”. Their friendship was never restored .

As opposed to the relationship between Hervey and Miss Vane. Now you'd think after that letter, he'd have been the last man she'd ever want to see again, but lo and behold, some years later:

When he had heard of his mother's gift of the gold snuff -box (Fritz of Wales) announced that it was less to favour Hervey than to insult and outrage him , and that it was shocking for his mother to favour a man who the whole world knew had been impertinent to him and had threatened his mistress.
For that reason, he told his sisters, he seldom visited the Queen. They replied that it was strange he should think of choosing his mother's companions as a condition of his paying his respects. Hervey's favour with the Queen thus widened the breach between himself and the Prince as well as between the Prince and his mother.
But Hervey's relationship with Miss Vane had undergone a radical change in the opposite direction . Following their quarrel, when they had met among company and he had tried to speak to her she refused --- with the haughtiness of an injured princess — to bestow a glance or a word on him , though he addressed her in the most suppliant manner. After meeting in public places , however , they discovered that they wanted (in Hervey's words) ' to forget their past enmity, and renew their past endearments , till from ogling they came to messages, from messages to letters, from letters to appointments, and from appointments to all the familiarities in which they had formerly lived , both of them swearing that there never had been any interruption in the affection they bore to each other, though the effects of jealousy and rage had often made them act more like enemies than lovers'. This revival of their love affair had come about by the summer of 1734 .
At first they met in an out of the way coffee-house , and then , after Miss Vane took a house at Wimbledon (for her son's health ), she came to town secretly once a week and they met at her house there, often passing the whole night together. Although they realized it was very indiscreet their 'mutual inclination to meet forced them to this dangerous course

Their renewed friendship and liaison arose from other reasons as well. Through Miss Vane, Hervey discovered that Bubb Dodington , the Prince's chief adviser, was being displaced by others , particularly Lord Chesterfield — a clear sign that the Prince was drawing closer to the political Opposition . She would thus be able to transmit useful information to him . Her renewed taste for him could have been stimulated by the Prince's gradual distaste for herself ; a year earlier, London gossip claimed that he had fathered a child on her chambermaid , for whom he then bought a house, and that he had tried unsuccessfully to gain the favours of an Italian opera singer. The renewed alliance of Miss Vane and Hervey, then, was based on love, jealousy, and politics intriguingly mixed .

It's worth bearing in mind, though, that Halsband's sole source for these subsequent shenanigans (i.e. all that happened after the initial fallout between Hervey and the Prince over Miss Vane, for which he quotes letters and satiric poems by all the other London wits) is Hervey himself in his trashy tell all memoirs. Which,

mildred_of_midgard, yes, I'd like to have in the library. I mean, sadly due to grandson censorship they're missing the vital years of 1730 to 1732, and thus can't tell us among other things how Uncle George first reacted when he heard what went down in Prussia with FW and Fritz, but maybe there are other useful quotes in them, and they do sound very entertaining.

(Given all I've heard so far, I'm tempted to think G2's instinctive reaction was: "Look, I get the temptation to kill one's son and crown prince. I want to do that all the time. But if I don't get to do it, bloody FW certainly doesn't!")

If Wilhelmine had married Fritz of Wales and had thus become involved in this soap, complete with accusations of her first baby being either someone else's or her faking the pregnancy:

Oh, boy. Yeah, I can see Wilhelmine and SD taking that one lying down. Even Fritz!

My thinking precisely. The explosion would have been something to behold.

From:

selenak

The biography itself is very drily written, but it contains valuable info re: the Berlin Academy, how it was set up, where they met, how it worked, the inner feuds, alliances and power plays, so it's a valuable research tool if one wants, say, write about Algarotti and/or Peter Keith having academic interactions.

In short:

Maupertuis: is born the son of an ennobled son of a privateer (= licensed by law pirate) in Saint-Malo, Brittany. He'll use the corsair association and imagery to make a splash at first, and it will even be used in his obituary. Parisian Voltaire (not born to an ennobled father but adding the "de" to his name just because he can) uses Maupertuis being from Brittany later when bickeringly corresponding with Fritz, if you'll recall. (Parisian rat Voltaire vs Breton mastiff Maupertuis. Fritz, of course, is a lion.)

His career goes very well the larger art of his life, his books are well liked; some of which are anonymously published, too, btw. And like Algarotti and the book Algarotti modelled his Newton for Ladies on which the dissertation names and I forgot, Maupertuis writes a "explaining science to a sexy lady" book. He did explain maths to Émilie early on, and Terrel quotes lettes of hers from that first period of aquaintance where she seems into him both mathematically and personally, so Maupertuis, at least, did practice the pedagogic eros in rl as well; Terrel points out that this was when a lot of writers discovered that lo and behold, female readers are a market, and not just for novels and poetry.

Speaking of, Voltaire at first was into Maupertuis as well, and claimed him as a Newtonian before Maupertuis had actually fully joined the Newtonian side of the force. (Terrel says that contrary to earlier assumptions, he wasn't yet a Newtonian when he visited England.) There's no sign of mixed feelings on Voltaire's part until Maupertuis has that military misadventure of getting captured when with Fritz at Mollwitz and Voltaire can't resist making fun of him back home in Paris, see earlier comment. Maupertuis is less than thrilled about this, but on the surface relations remain sociable and harmonius until they're both in Berlin at the same time, though a mutual acquaintance already said when the news came that Voltaire had finally given in and was on his way to Potsdam that this might not be such a good idea, because of the two egos (of Voltaire and Maupertuis, not Voltaire and Fritz). Back in the Cirey days, though, all seemed reasonably well, and I'm amused that when Maupertuis is preparing his big expedition and invites Algarotti along, our otherwise dry author observes that she can't think of what Algarotti was supposed to contribute to the expedition, "except for his company", since he wasn't a geometer, a surveyor or a man of action who couldn't have helped with the hardcore travel parts. Ms Terrell, hot stuff Algarotti was clearly part of the intendended entertainment for the Lappland nights!

The Lappland expedition - to prove the Earth flattens on top - is a big success and makes Maupertuis into an international celebrity who is much sought after in Europe from this point onwards. He does get into the Academie in France, so it's not like Fritz was the without alternatives, but then they didn't offer to make him head of the Academie which is what Fritz offered for the Berlin Academie, plus everyone wrote glowingly about the new philosopher king, so off to Prussia Maupertuis went, and got bored, see Mildred's tale about how all the intellectuals were widdling their thumbs while Fritz was off conquering Silesia. Maupertuis was the only one who made the mistake of following him into the field and getting captured. Then, as detailed in the earlier comment, after a few days he was identified by Count Neipperg and got ever courtesy, including a round trip to Vienna and then back to Berlin. By which time Voltaire from France and Fritz from nearer by cracked jokes and Maupertuis just about had it and left Prussia again. (I have to say, his story about his reception at Vienna, which is partly in the main text and partly in a footnote, would have deserved some authorial scepticism from Terrel. I can buy FS gave him a golden watch to compensate him from the one stolen from him in the scuffle of him getting taken prisoner, but the supposed dialogue with MT about who's the most beautiful Queen of them all really defies belief.)

Maupertuis does eventually return and takes his place as head of the Academy, and that's when valuable research stuff happens in this biography.

Fritz: I want the Academy to be a true republic of intellectuals. I'm just one of its citizens here, and I want you to treat my contributions as you do any other. Also, forget about the old place where the Academy, such as it was, met in my father's day, used to me and about the places where you met while I was off making war, I'm telling you where I want you to meet, of course.

Maupertuis: ...Okay. Academy members, we will model this Academy and its interactions on the new modern state of Prussia. I'm Fritz, of course. You're everyone else.

German academy members: We feel discriminated against anyway because of Fritz and his French hangup. I mean, we're not even allowed to hand in papers in our own language or Latin without also adding a translation into French at our own expense. And now we're getting bossed around not just by the King but this French guy who doesn't talk German at all? Grrr. Argh.

Maupertuis: Wolff, want to come?

Wolff: No way. I'm staying in Halle. Teaching in German.

Maupertuis: I'm getting a sense of some German hostility here. Also, all Germans are foodies. Direct quote: “Experience teaches me that there is nothing so prejudicial to the progress ofthe sciences in Germany as giving them too much to eat and drink. There is no one who will not abandon Homer when he hears the dinner bell. " Clearly, some more calling for discipline on my part is the way to proceed. After all, I'm the Fritz here.

Maupertuis: on the bright side, becomes bff with Euler and makes a friend in Kästner who is his eyes and ears in the camp of the enemy, aka Halle, where Wolff resides.

Maupertuis: Also gets married to Fräulein von Borck, scion of one of the old Brandenburg families

Mary Terrel: shame we don't know anything about her other than she did her best for her husband's work and memory to florish after his death, so she must have been devoted to him.

Mary Terrel: clearly hasn't read Lehndorff's journals, where Madame Maupertuis shows up a couple of times, notably when Amalie gives her some jewelry so she can make the journey to her dying husband in the middle of the war.

Early Academy feuding not starring either Maupertuis or Voltaire: *happens*

Maupertuis: *staying above it all* Remember, members: Dignity! Always dignity!

Émilie: *dies*

Mary Terrel: And then Voltaire showed up. "Friedrich had tried to woo him with flattering letters and with lavish gifts for years."

Voltaire: Lavish what? He haggled about my travel expenses!

König: Earlier, the Academy had done a competition like the one in Paris, I made an entry, and I lost. This endeared Maupertuis to me enormously.

Gottsched (remember him?) and other German intellectuals: We think the Academy is a bunch of foreign elitist snobs and their cowed German lackeys. If it's supposed to make local culture florish, where's the local culture in it? And how's the President ever supposed to get a clue about if he still doesn't speak German?

Maupertuis: *writes treatise and the principle of least action*

König: *writes attack on the treatise, complete with Leipniiz quote and accusation that Maupertuis isn't just wrong on the larger point, he also uses stuff Leipniz already said*

Maupertuis: How dare he! Of course I, as President, can't reply to this outrage in person. Faithful subjects, I mean, academy members, pray deal with König.

Quote: The generally hostile treatment of the management of the Berlin Academy in the German press had primed Maupertuis to respond forcefully to König, a more accessible and more vulnerable target than Gottsched or anonymous journalists. Seeing his scientific accomplishments and his personal integrity called into question, Maupertuis took steps to
demonstrate his power to silence " scoundrels" . (...)
Maupertuis made a strategic decision to focus on the authenticity of the letter, suspecting König's vulnerability on this point. As he explained later to d'Alémbert, “ instead of disputing with him , I limited myself to pressing him to produce
the original, regarding it anyway as quite a mark of approval to want to attribute the basis [ofmy principle ] to the great Leibniz.” If all went well, the disciplining of König might be turned into positive publicity for the principle of least action . The Academy formally demanded that König produce the letter which turned out to be a copy, and then initiated a search for the original in Hermann's papers in Switzerland. Maupertuis used his prerogative to make the dispute a matter of honor for his institution and for the king. (...) Publicly, Maupertuis limited his concern to the existence and authenticity of the letter ; privately , he hoped to expose his accuser as a charlatan ,“ to bury König in the mud as he deserves." (...)
Euler bent to the task with a will,no doubtharboring his own hostility to the Wolffian professor who had defended monads to the Academy a few years before:When König could not produce the letter,Euler submiitted a report, concluding "that (König's ] cause is completely 'untenable and that this fragment was forged, either to wrong M.de Maupertuis; or to exaggerate bý a pious fraud the praises of the great Leibniz ." 86 The evidence for forgery was circumstantial, bur König had muddied his claims with so many improbable and unsubstantiated explanations that Euler stated his condemnation in the strongest possible terms. In April 1752, the Academy voted unanimously to approve Euler's report, although there was some private grumbling about the president's righthold on power, and bitterness about the impossibility of dissent. A footnote here provides the direct quote from a German academy member: Weil Maupertuis alle Gewaltin Händen hat,und man nicht sehr laut gegen ihn reden darf , so ist die Verbitterung im Geheim desto stärker, und dises thut der Academie grossen Schaden "
(Sulzer to Künzli, April 1752, quoted in Harnack , Geschichte, 1 (1 ): 338 , n.2 ).

And only at this point, according to Terrel, Voltaire enters the struggle.

Voltaire: I actuallly have no idea whether Maupertuis is correct about the principle of least action without Émiilie explaining it to me, but I do know a bully when I see one, and also, I could think of a better president of the Academy, namely, me. Be that as it may: have a satiric pamphlet. Or several.

Maupertuis: But...?
Academy members: OMG!
Europe: *Popcorn*

Terrel: and from this point onwards, no one cared about the principle of least action, or Leipniz. Voltaire had turned it into a literary quarrel, and then Fritz intervened, and at this point König and Maupertuis could do little more than watch along with the rest.

Maupertuis: Surely, with the King himself defending me, I don't have to respond to these outrages. Everyone will see right is on my, that is, our side!

Everyone: No idea who's right, but Voltaire is funnier. Also, did Fritz just burn a book? Mr. Enlightened Monach? OMG!

Maupertuis: *can't even enjoy the Frankfurt drama, because now he's in bad health*

Maupertuis: Okay, two more years in Prussia, but in late 1755 I'm off to go to France before the benefit of my health. Can I have paid leave, your majesty? I promise to comeback.

Fritz: That' what Algarotti said. But okay, you've been through a lot.

Maupertuis: *meets Voltaire's sworn enemy Fréron, a journalist*

Maupertuis: *writes to Fritz* Sire, until now I've kept a dignified silence, but now I've met this Fréron guy who says he can bury Voltaire, and I'm just thinking, how about I give him a tell-all to show how noble you've behaved in all this, defending me, and how dastardly Voltaire?

Fritz: I don't think that's a good idea.

Maupertuis: Sorry, Fréron, you can't be my revenge ghost writer, but I can tell you some stuff about Voltaire THAT UNSPEAKABLE BASTARD which you can use in some other pamphlets.

1756: Arrives. With the Diplomatic Revolution.

Fréron: So, dear readers, my personal conclusion is that Maupertuis and Voltaire are both dirty traitors to France who should never allowed Fritz to lure them away from la patrie anyway. Wasn't France good enough for them anymore? Stay tuned for me attacking Voltaire on the Mademoiselle Corneille front soon.

Maupertuis: OMG. Fritz and France at war? What is my duty here? If I go back to Berlin now, I'm definitely a traitor. But Fritz has been good to me, that making fun of my Austrian captivity post Mollwitz bit aside.

Some French friends: You could resign from your office as President of the Academy at least.

Maupertuis: No. That's part of my income. Also it's a nice honor. And Fritz would take it personal as hell. What if he wins this war and I can't go back to Prussia? My wife is there! This was just supposed to be some months back home in Brittany to recover my health!

Euler: Dear M, don't worry, I'm running the Academy for you. Take as much time as you need. The war will be over soon, surely.

Maupertuis: *tries to be diplomatic, congratulating Fritz on his military successes and asking for save routes from France to Berlin, but never actually going*

Maupertuis: *dies*

French Academy of Science: Traitor.
Academy Francaise: No, a man of lettres and esprit! Have some favourite works! And his style! He paints with so much warmth , with so much liveliness , thathe transports us to the very places he describes. One scales with him the summits ofHorrilakero; one follows him on the frozen waters of Tornea; one flies at his sideon the fragile sleds of the Laplander."

Academy in Berlin: Total hero: Saint Malo is a kind of republic of Argonauts ; M.de Maupertuis's compatriots ... bring back to their fatherland (patrie) çiçhes which they have often devoted to the defense and health of that same country in the most glorious manner.M.de Maupertuis was the Jason of a different class of Argonauts . The treasures, he sought in the world's extremities are themost precious of all that enrich the mind, and he shared them not only with his country (patrie ),but with the whole human race.

Euler: He was the best. But seeing as he's dead now, and I've been running the Academy de facto since he left, how about making me the next President, Sire?

Fritz: ...You're German.

Euler: Fuck you. I'm off to St. Petersburg as soon as the war is over.

From:

selenak

Cahn: I'm very happy about a list of ideas! A document in the library, I guess? I feel like at Yuletide I've been like, "...what were those fic ideas I wanted again??" and I am sure there are several I'm just totally forgetting.

I was thinking about the possibility of putting the fic snippets on AO3 itself so that other people could read them :) (Oh come on, doesn't everyone want to read the outline of Fritz/Joseph marriagefic? OF COURSE THEY DO.) I was thinking maybe just one AO3 work, with each different snippet as a different chapter. Rheinsberg would work too, of course.

I'm for collecting all the prompts at a Rheinsberg post. Not sure about the round robin and fic snippets at the A03; for now, I'd rather see them also at Rheinsberg.

From:

selenak

. She obviously doesn't remember for sure that they called Suhm Diablotin, and *everyone* has a devil nickname for Manteuffel, for obvious reasons.

On the other hand! Maybe Manteuffel was Diable, and his very short successor was Diablotin. That actually makes sense.

It does, and it's entirely possible that this was an early Suhm nickname before everyone got to know him better, and then Fritz named him Diaphenes for the reasons your beautiful story provides.

Lady Darlington aka Sophia von Kielmannsegg: speaking of putting the pieces together, her mother was the same Countess Platen wo played a role in bringing the Sophia Dorotha the older/Count Königsmarck affair out in the open and thus getting SD locked up for life and Königsmarck killed. No wonder SD was wary.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

1) The library finally having hit the tipping point, I've now organized the files into a handful of folders. If anything isn't where it should be or you don't have access to it, let me know.

Fanworks are still at the top, but if we accumulate enough of them, they'll get a designated folder too. :)

2)
his trashy tell all memoirs. Which, [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard, yes, I'd like to have in the library. I mean, sadly due to grandson censorship they're missing the vital years of 1730 to 1732, and thus can't tell us among other things how Uncle George first reacted when he heard what went down in Prussia with FW and Fritz, but maybe there are other useful quotes in them, and they do sound very entertaining.

Bowdlerized memoirs in the library, with obligatory 19th century editorial disclaimer that it was perfectly acceptable to be coarse then, so much so that he wishes he could have bowdlerized *more*, but the memoirs wouldn't make sense with entire passages suppressed, so he contented himself with some lacunae and rewriting. Sigh. Someone bring him his smelling salts.

If I find a more complete copy, I'll let you know, but for now, this is what we have. There appears to be a more modern (but still 1960s) edition, that's severely abridged down to less than 300 pages.

3) Lady Hervey's letters are also in the library, in the correspondence folder.

Also, any time you want anything, whether it be Lord Hervey's memoirs or an English or German translation of Voltaire on short notice, let me know, and I'll see what I can do! It's not like I hesitate to ask you to read things for us. ;)

4) And because I couldn't resist, also the memoirs of Princess Dashkova. We haven't talked about her, but she was Catherine's BFF, helped put her on the throne, headed the Russian academy of sciences, and seems generally cool. And in keeping with our Enlightenment theme!

Edited Date: 2020-09-15 06:15 pm (UTC)

From:

selenak

Elisabeth Christine let everyone feel through her imperious nature that she was finally the only queen.

Is this right? Huh. I guess I can understan why EC might want to punch down herself a little for a brief moment

Ziebura has this from Lehndorff, who certainly had that impression directly after SD's death. (I think I told you about this? He even has an argument re: SD's funeral arrangements with her, and she apologizes the next day, but this doesn't make him feel much warmer towards her. This series of entries are the ones containing the "she'd have made an excellent burgher's wife" dig, amidst raving about how great SD was at Queendom.) I was a tad sceptical during my original reading of the diaries, but Sophie von Voss backs him up here - i.e. EC after SD's death trying to be more authoritarian (and failing at it) - so now I think it was another case of damned if you do, damned of you don't for her. (Her mother-in-law had critisized her as not sufficiently regal, after all.)

Aw, I remember selenak telling us about that passage where Lehndorff is rolling his eyes that Mina is so upset about Heinrich's wound. It's still pretty funny to me :P

Lehndorff is usually complimentary about Mina, and during the time they lived together in Heinrich's Berlin residence (remember, when Lehndorff had no more Berlin place but wanted to live there to be near his sons and Heinrich told him to move into his town residence with his family, ca. 1799), he had tea with her every day- but every now and then you get a remark like this, complete with an aside that she hears perfectly well and yet they had to repeat to her three times that Heinrich was fine before she got up again. You can practically hear him think "if anyone gets to faint at the prospect of Heinrich being wounded, it's me, and I don't do it, plus we all now how things are between you two, so cut the dramatics!"

Did AW give Mina his engagement ring?? I mean, I guess it's not quite as bad as giving her his kids, but...

Yes, he did. It was also the ring he was wearing all the time. The fact that he did made the rounds quickly, since Lehndorff knows about this detail even before Heinrich's January visit to Berlin as executor of AW's will.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

it contains valuable info re: the Berlin Academy, how it was set up, where they met, how it worked, the inner feuds, alliances and power plays, so it's a valuable research tool if one wants, say, write about Algarotti and/or Peter Keith having academic interactions.

That's exactly why I got it, and why I gave it to you. It was useful for "Lovers" already!

our otherwise dry author observes that she can't think of what Algarotti was supposed to contribute to the expedition, "except for his company", since he wasn't a geometer, a surveyor or a man of action who couldn't have helped with the hardcore travel parts. Ms Terrell, hot stuff Algarotti was clearly part of the intendended entertainment for the Lappland nights!

Lol! I noticed that! Dissertation author thinks he was supposed to contribute science, since he had experience reproducing Newton's experiments with prisms, and in fact was the first person in Italy to successfully reproduce the results.

But obviously you're right, Algarotti is supposed to be the antidote to the cold nights! I can just imagine our favorite people pleaser exhausted in the mornings from a less than restful night. :D

Maupertuis: Also gets married to Fräulein von Borck, scion of one of the old Brandenburg families

Terrell's footnote helped me figure out who the Borck was who was Peter's predecessor as Academy curator! We're definitely collecting Borcks; there were a few mentions in recent Ziebura reading, and those I still haven't sorted out.

(I have to say, his story about his reception at Vienna, which is partly in the main text and partly in a footnote, would have deserved some authorial scepticism from Terrel. I can buy FS gave him a golden watch to compensate him from the one stolen from him in the scuffle of him getting taken prisoner, but the supposed dialogue with MT about who's the most beautiful Queen of them all really defies belief.)

Right?

Maupertuis: ...Okay. Academy members, we will model this Academy and its interactions on the new modern state of Prussia. I'm Fritz, of course. You're everyone else.

I thought this was a very fascinating part of the book. And I totally believe the vote was unanimous because dissenters were intimidated, what with Fritz : Prussia :: Maupertuis : Academy.

Thank you for the hilarious and educational soap opera! I laughed and facepalmed with delight all the way through. :D You have a way with words; plus, this will make another excellent addition to

rheinsberg.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

It does, and it's entirely possible that this was an early Suhm nickname before everyone got to know him better, and then Fritz named him Diaphenes for the reasons your beautiful story provides.

Exactly what I was thinking! If your predecessor is "Devil", "Little Devil" is exactly what you get called when you first show up, he's still fresh in everyone's minds, and you're short. ;)

"Diaphanes" may actually have been as late as 1736. I have no evidence for it before that, and Wilhelmine (who's admittedly been away for years) doesn't seem to know about it.

her mother was the same Countess Platen wo played a role in bringing the Sophia Dorotha the older/Count Königsmarck affair out in the open and thus getting SD locked up for life and Königsmarck killed.

Ooooh. Wow, yeah, it's good to know about all these little connections.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Okay, so my biggest comment on the Seven Years' War section is:

Ablenkung brachten kleine Ausflüge nach Fredersdorf zu den Podewils

"Little excursions to Fredersdorf at the Podewils' place brought some distraction."

I had to look this up: Podewils I know as Fritz's foreign minister, but my eyebrows flew up at Fredersdorf. Turns out that it's actually the name of Podewils' estate outside Berlin. Which makes sense, since all the -dorf(f)s we love or love to hate are etymologically -"village"s. The Podewils family mausoleum that our Podewils' son built is still there today, in Fredersdorf where lots of people live and commute to Berlin for work.

* This also led me to notice that Ziebura's index has a mistake: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf is listed as EC's brother Albert's chamberlain instead of Fritz's. I can see where, if you were reading the sentence where he shows up, you could parse "seinem" as referring to Albert instead of Fritz, but yeah, the index must have been put together by an editor or assistant who didn't know too terribly much about Fritz.

* AW trying to tell Mina about his feelings about his approaching death, her trying to cheer him up, and him withdrawing and realizing he had to lie to her too: I *knew* it! People who are dying often have a very hard time getting the support they need from the people around them, because those people are overwhelmed by emotions of their own. This is why I said I'd be totally behind AW if he chose to delude everyone to keep from having to perform emotional labor for them, as opposed to for their own good.

:(

*

cahn have you been noticing Ziebura's frequent "despite several bloodlettings, so-and-so didn't get better"? You picked up on my comparable line in "Pulvis et Umbra", except that mine was meant to be humorous irony obvious to the reader (as it was to you), if not to the character whose POV this is, yet Ziebura seems like she's playing it straight? But it's really hard for me to tell that kind of nuance in German, so maybe not.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

selenak: That, and when EC married Fritz, he actually (faked?) affection enough for her to satisfy Dad.

cahn: Yeah, and Ziebura quotes at least one letter from Fritz to EC during the Rheinsberg years that was... much nicer than anything afterwards that I know of. (to be fair, I've been told mostly of the not-so-great letters because those are the WTF ones, but...)

Per Blanning:

Frederick went out of his way to emphasize his affection, as in: “I very much look forward to being back in Rheinsberg and even more to the pleasure of kissing you… May God protect you, my lady! Please do not forget me, and permit me to embrace you with all my heart, be sure that I am totally devoted to you.” But a letter written two weeks later which he expressly stated was not to be shown to his mother was appreciably less fulsome, ending simply with “your most obedient servant.”

Also in Blanning, immediately before this passage, two things that had escaped my notice:

In 1738 [Fritz] sent Prince Leopold of Anhalt-Dessau on a secret mission to the Vice-Chancellor of the Holy Roman Empire, Friedrich Karl von Schönborn, to secure imperial assistance in getting the marriage dissolved. 64 Moreover, hitherto unpublished letters from Manteuffel to other correspondents, and from Frederick to a Lieutenant von der Groeben, indicate that he continued to maintain intimate relations with young officers of his regiment. 65

64: Rudolf Endres stated this in the discussion which followed the papers given by Peter Baumgart and Volker Press at a symposium held at Bayreuth in 1986— Manfred Agethen, “Diskussionsbericht,” in Heinz Duchhardt (ed.), Friedrich der Grosse, Franken und das Reich (Cologne and Vienna, 1986), p. 196.

65: Hahn, Friedrich II., p. 47.

Better citation needed for the first one; I extremely need more details for the second one. :P Hahn, based on

selenak's rec and the fact that it's on Kindle and not terribly expensive, is on my maybe list for when I can actually read German. We'll see if he presents better citations (like, "I saw the letters and am reproducing excerpts here") than with the handsome hussar episode, where Selena only kind of accidentally ran across the actual source.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

so now I think it was another case of damned if you do, damned of you don't for her. (Her mother-in-law had critisized her as not sufficiently regal, after all.)

Yeah, first she got criticized for not talking, then she got criticized for talking too much and not having anything interesting to say. Then she's either not regal enough or too imperious.

Sucks to be her. :/

You can practically hear him think "if anyone gets to faint at the prospect of Heinrich being wounded, it's me, and I don't do it, plus we all now how things are between you two, so cut the dramatics!"

This is ringing a bell now that you mention it!

Ziebura seems to think that Wilhelmine, like EC, had the misfortune of actually falling in love with, or at least developing feelings for, her husband.

No pity for the wives indeed. :(

From:

mildred_of_midgard

I'm more inclined to Rheinsberg myself for snippets, especially since some of these are getting turned into actual fics.

For the list of prompts, I'm with

cahn about a document in the library, because it has the advantage of being editable by all three people. What I'm hoping for is not just a list of the ideas we've proposed, because I can look those up, but which ones are going to make someone especially happy if I invest the time in researching and writing them, because that's very motivating. :)

So a doc that all three of us could update as we got especially excited about an idea or less excited about an old one would be great.

I can create the doc and start populating it if people are on board with it, and then you two can add your own preferences (and keep updating as your interests evolve)?

I'm also happy to start putting snippets in Rheinsberg if we have agreement. I think there are enough of them that it makes sense to put them in separate posts and tag them, as opposed to one post behind cut tags. And of course, as time goes on, that number will only grow!

From:

selenak

Okay, a document for the prompts and Rheinsberg for the ficlets it shall be!

From:

cahn

This all sounds good to me too! (And yes, being editable by all three of us was why I thought a document would be a good choice for the prompts, which may change rapidly :D )

I'm happy for you to put snippets in Rheinsberg -- and yes, separate posts with tag sounds like a good idea :)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Librarian at work:

1) As you've no doubt seen, I'm getting our fic endeavors transferred over to

rheinsberg. A handful more ficlets/discussions/prompts to go, and a handful more emoji sets. I'll let you know when I'm done, and then you can point out anything I missed. Shorter prompts and discussions are especially hard to remember/find, so I'm sure there are plenty more out there I've forgotten that you can tell me about.

I haven't tagged for characters yet, because this is tedious enough already. I'm sure they'll get tagged someday, either by me, or...I think you can tag posts other people have made in the community, even if you can't edit them, so if anyone wanted to help out, I wouldn't say no. ;)

selenak: do you want me to do Rococo babysitting, Voltaire to the rescue, and handsome hussar, or hold off? I know you're seriously thinking about turning these into fics, so I'm waiting for your approval. Though Rococo babysitting, both in the original and in emoji, is worthy of being a work of art on its own. Like the VSD of Fredersdorf that got turned into fics, but that I still put up, because it's *awesome*.

The other two are mostly plot hashing out, so if you've got plans for these, maybe we don't need to post them separately? I'll let you decide.

2) The Google doc is being drafted already and will be shared shortly, this weekend if I don't have time to finish this week. Just in time for nominations!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Just a progress report for tonight: Mina's just gotten shafted by Kalckreuth and Heinrich.

Also 20 pages of Wilhelmine memoirs, woot. I *think* she's getting slightly easier with practice. Which is good, because there's 400 pages of practice left. :D Also, these pages are longer than Ziebura's: about 100 words per page longer, according to my sampling.

From:

cahn

As to Miss Anne Vane, no one, including Halsband, bothers to explain why if she had no inner or outer qualities, and wasn't rich or titled, men kept being attracted to her.

This was my reaction! "Um, they must have seen something in her..."

He composed a letter and asked his brother-in -law Bussy Mansel to take it to her, telling him that it merely recommended a midwife. Actually it castigated her for the ill service she had done him with the Prince

I must admit I laughed. Hervey, here I thought Voltaire acted like an emo teenager... omg, that whole thing is just hilariously soap opera emo. (though in a way that sounds utterly horrible for Vane herself, of course)

Although they realized it was very indiscreet their 'mutual inclination to meet forced them to this dangerous course

Me: Wow! I guess... they must have been really attracted to each other --
Selena: It's worth bearing in mind, though, that Halsband's sole source for these subsequent shenanigans (i.e. all that happened after the initial fallout between Hervey and the Prince over Miss Vane, for which he quotes letters and satiric poems by all the other London wits) is Hervey himself in his trashy tell all memoirs.

Voltaire: It's not like there's anything wrong with fabricating stories about your ex when you've had a bad breakup!

From:

selenak

do you want me to do Rococo babysitting, Voltaire to the rescue, and handsome hussar?

Go ahead. If I manage to turn any of them into a proper tale, it won't harm there being an outline at our community, and if someone else should feel inspired, I'll be as delighted as I was when the three of us managed to come up with the Christmas of '32 simultanously! And yes, group them thematically, i.e. the Rococo babysitting can go together in both versions, etc.. ;)

From:

selenak

Having browsed through the first (bowlderized) volume of Hervey's memoirs: the man can coin a phrase, and is viciously hilarious. Alas for our purposes, he thinks G2's insistence of seeing himself as a German prince and being involved in German and continental politics is a waste of time at best and a danger to England at worst, involving the Brits in continental battles and always on the wrong side. (The Imperial one.) Hervey dies in the early 1740s, remember, so for him German = mostly the creaky old HRE and its politics. He hasn't got much time or attention for FW and Prussia, and of course the years 1730 - 32 are missing. But there is a bit on the G2 & FW relationship, and what there is is hilarious. (It also tells us that if Fritz had ever made it to England, he would have had the weirdest sense of deja vu...)

So, the FW passages:

To oppose the execution then of the Vienna Treaty made between the Emperor and Spain, France and England formed the Hanover Treaty, September 3, 1727, when the late King (i.e. G1) was at Hanover. As soon as this treaty was concluded, to which England, France, and Prussia were the original contracting parties, copies of it were sent to all the Courts and little States in Europe ; and whilst the Emperor and Spain were soliciting, on one hand, for accessions to their Treaty of Vienna, England and France were, on the other, strengthening, by as many powers as they could list, the alliance of Hanover.
The defection of the King of Prussia from the latter was a sudden turn, and proceeded partly from a fear of his superior, the Emperor, and partly from a sullen, envious hatred he bore to his father-in-law, the King of England, who, from the time of his advancement to that crown, sank in his son-in-law's favour, just in the same proportion as he rose above him in grandeur. This was a great loss to the allies of Hanover, the King of Prussia having a standing force of 70,000 men. The forces of Spain were about 60,000, besides their naval power ; and the army of the Emperor in all, after the new levies, about 200,000. Muscovy was the only considerable power, besides Prussia, that acceded to the Treaty of Vienna ; for whilst the Czarina alone obliged herself, in case of a rupture, to furnish 30,000 men, the Electors of Bavaria, Cologne, and Treves, besides several other little German Princes that his Imperial Majesty had bullied, cajoled, or bought into his party, could muster no more than 27,000.

While Prince of Wales, future G2 had remained in Britain, but once he was G2, he irritated his English subjects by spending part of his time in Hannover, like his father had done:

Whilst the King was at Hanover he had several little German disputes with his brother of Prussia, the particulars of which being about a few cart-loads of hay, a mill, and some soldiers improperly enlisted by the King of Prussia in the Hanoverian state, I do not think them worthy of being considered in detail ; and shall say nothing further about these squabbles than that, first or last, both of them contrived to be in the wrong. And as these two princes had some similar impracticabilities in their temper, so they were too much alike ever to agree, and from this time forward hated one another with equal imprudence, inveteracy, and openness.
It was reported, and I believe not without foundation, that our Monarch on this occasion sent or would have sent a challenge of single combat to his Prussian Majesty; but whether it was carried and rejected, or whether the prayers and remonstrances of Lord Townshend prevented the gauntlet being actually thrown down, is a point which to me at least has never been cleared.
There was another subject of dispute between the Kings of England and Prussia, which I forgot to enumerate, though it was the only one really of consequence, and that was with regard to the affairs of Mecklenburg. The short statement of their differences on this article was, whether the Prussian or Hanoverian troops (both ordered into Mecklenburg by a decree of the Aulic Council) should have the greatest share (under the pretence of keeping peace) in plundering the people and completing the ruin of that miserable duchy, already reduced to such a state of calamity by the tyrannical conduct of their most abominable, deposed, or rather suspended duke.

It's time for (another) War of the Polish Succession. As a reminder: France backs Louis XV's father-in-law, Stanilaus Lescyinski; Mt's Dad the Emperor backs August the Strong's son, future August III. FW is technically obliged to back both in his dual capacity of Elector of Brandenburg and King of Prussia. Then there's the battle of Philippsburg where no one does much but where Fritz, FW and old Prince Eugene are on one side and the Duc de Richelieu (and Voltaire as a tourist) on the other. G2 wants to join the war effort. His PM, Robert Walpole, and Hervey really really want Britain to stay out of hit.

During these transactions abroad, the King was in the utmost anxiety at home. The battles of Bitonto and Parma, the surrender of Philipsburg, and the bad situation of the Emperor's affairs in every quarter, gave his Majesty the utmost solicitude to exert himself in the defence of the House of Austria, and to put some stop to the rapid triumphs of the House of Bourbon.
For though the King was ready to allow all the personal faults of the Emperor, and was not without resentment for the treatment he himself had met with from the Court of Vienna, yet his hatred to the French was so strong, and his leaning to an Imperial cause so prevalent, that he could not help wishing to distress the one and support the other, in spite of all inferior, collateral, or personal considerations.
In all occurrences he could not help remembering that, as Elector of Hanover, he was a part of the Empire, and the Emperor at the head of it ; and these prejudices, operating in every consideration where his interest as King of England ought only to have been weighed, gave his Minister, who consulted only the interest of England, perpetual difficulties to surmount, whenever he was persuading his Majesty to adhere solely to that.
The King's love for armies, his contempt for civil affairs, and the great capacity he thought he possessed for military exploits, inclined him still with greater violence to be meddling, and warped him yet more to the side of war. He used almost daily and hourly, during the beginning of this summer, to be telling Sir Robert Walpole with what eagerness he glowed to pull the laurels from the brows of the French generals, to bind his own temples ; that it was with the sword alone he desired to keep the balance of Europe •, that war and action were his sole pleasures ; that age was coming fast upon him ; and that, if he lost the opportunity of this bustle, no other occasion possibly might offer in which he should be able to distinguish himself, or gather those glories which were now ready at his hand. He could not bear, he said, the thought of growing old in peace, and rusting in the cabinet, whilst other princes were busied in war and shining in the field; but what provoked him most of all, he confessed, was to reflect that, whilst he was only busied in treaties, letters, and despatches, his booby brother, the brutal and cowardly King of Prussia, should pass his time in camps, and in the midst of arms, neither desirous of the glory nor fit for the employment ; whilst he, who coveted the one and was trained for the other, was, for cold prudential reasons, debarred the pleasure of indulging his inclination, and deprived of the advantage of showing his abilities.

See what I mean about deja vu?

But the circumstance that gave Sir Robert Walpole the most trouble of all was that with regard to the war he found the Queen as unmanageable and opinionated as the King. There are local prejudices in all people's composition, imbibed from the place of their birth, the seat of their education, and the residence of their youth, that are hardly ever quite eradicated, and operate much stronger than those who are influenced by them are apt to imagine ; and the Queen, with all her good
sense, was actuated by these prejudices in a degree nothing short of that in which they biased the King.
Wherever the interest of Germany and the honour of the Empire were concerned, her thoughts and reasonings were often as German and Imperial as if England had been out of the question ; and there were few inconveniences and dangers to which she would not have exposed this country rather than give occasion to its being said that the Empire suffered affronts unretorted, and the House of Austria injuries unrevenged, whilst she, a German by birth, sat upon this throne an idle spectatress, able to assist and not willing to interpose.

More about Queen Caroline elsewhere. But Hervey's general attitude with its "why are they so German?" ness was widely shared among the British politicians and makes me think Heinrich wasn't wrong when in his RPG with AW when assuming Britain would not have been willing to go to total war for Hannover. Speaking of the family seat, G2 making another trip there is the occason of the last Prussia mention in volume 1, as his PM tries to argue him into not going. It's the mid 1730s:

Neither would it have been a very agreeable incident for the King of Great Britain, after a month's residence at Hanover, to be running back again through Westphalia to England with seventy thousand Prussians at his heels ; and yet, considering
the terms he and the King of Prussia were upon at present, this might easily have happened, and was suggested by Sir Robert Walpole to deter his Majesty from this expedition ; but to their remonstrances his Majesty always answered, "Pooh!" and "Stuff!" or, " You think to get the better of me, but you shall not ;" and, in short, plainly showed that all efforts to divert him from this expedition would be fruitless.

You know what's nearly totally missing (unless it was in the censored by grandson passages)? The endless marriage negotiatioins for Fritz and Wilhelmine. There's one single aside about some there being some idea to marry Fritz of Wales to "a daughter of Prussia", and that's it. Otherwise, the entire rigmorale is of zero interest to Hervey.

Edited Date: 2020-09-16 09:43 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

If you're wondering: I know the English spell it "Hanover" with one n, but the town in Germany as well as the current noble family is spelled with two n over here, hence my usually spelling it with two. So, you may have gathered Hervey isn't much impressed, though he doesn't limit his not impressedness to the House of Hannover. Not knowing den einzigen König, he thinks the lot of them are rubbish:

For my own part, I have the conduct of princes in so little veneration, that I believe they act yet oftener without design than other people, and are insensibly drawn into both good and bad situations without knowing how they came there. (...) I think most of these political contenders for profit and power are, like Catiline and Caesar, actuated by the same principles of ambition and interest, and that as their success determines their characters, so accident determines their success. Had Csesar fallen in the plains of Pharsalia, like Catiline in those of Pistoia, they had both been remembered in the same manner; the different fortune of those battles is what alone constitutes the different characters of these two men, and makes the one always mentioned as the first and the other as the last of mankind.

Hervey on the coronation of G2 and Queen Caroline:

In October the ceremony of the Coronation was performed with all the pomp and magnificence that could be contrived ; the present King differing so much from the last, that all the pageantry and splendour, badges and trappings of royalty, were as pleasing to the son as they were irksome to the father. The dress of the Queen on this occasion was as fine as the accumulated riches of the City and suburbs could make it ; for besides her own jewels (which were a great number and very valuable) she had on her head and on her shoulders all the pearls she could borrow of the ladies of quality at one end of the town, and on her petticoat all the diamonds she could hire of the Jews and jewellers at the other; so that the appearance and the truth of her finery was a mixture of magnificence and meanness not unlike the eclat of royalty in many other particulars when it comes to be nicely examined and its sources traced to what money hires or flattery lends.

You may gather from this that contrary to what Halsband told me in his biography, Hervey writes critical stuff about Queen Caroline as well as about the rest of the family. This upsets Croker in the introduction, not least because Hervey also insists he loved the Queen and she loved him. Though our Victorian editor is most upset about what Hervey presumably didn't mean critically at all, to wit, Caroline a) despising her oldest son, and b) having no problem with her husband's mistresses. Speaking of whom, remember Lady Suffolk, who started out as Mrs. Howard and whom G2 took as an English mistress when he was still Prince of Wales when his Dad G1 upset people by bring a German mistress along? Whom G2 visited strictly by the hour and was more dutiful than affectionate towards as opposed to his wife? This is how Hervey introduces her:

She was civil to everybody, friendly to many, and unjust to none : in short, she had a good head and a good heart, but had to do with a man who was incapable of tasting the one or valuing the other.

Meanwhile, Queen Caroline:

Her predominant passion was pride, and the darling pleasure of her soul was power; but she was forced to gratify the one and gain the other, as some people do health, by a strict and painful regime, which few besides herself could have had patience to support, or resolution to adhere to. She was at least seven or eight hours tute-a-tcte with the King every day, during which time she was generally saying what she did not think, assenting to what she did not believe, and praising what she did not approve ; for they were seldom of the same opinion, and he too fond of his own for her ever at first to dare to controvert it (" consilii quamvis egregii quod ipse non afferret, inimicus :"— " An enemy to any counsel, however excellent, which he himself had not suggested." — Tacitus) ;'' she used to give him her opinion as jugglers do a card, by changing it imperceptibly, and making him believe he held the same with that he first pitched upon. But that which made these tete-a-tetes seem heaviest was that he neither liked reading nor being read to (unless it was to sleep) : she was forced, like a spider, to spin out of her own bowels all the conversation with which the fly was taken. However, to all this she submitted for the sake of power, and for the reputation of having it ; for the vanity of being thought to possess what she desired was equal to the pleasure of the possession itself. But, either for the appearance or the reality, she knew it was absolutely necessary to have interest in her husband, as she was sensible that interest was the measure by which people would always judge of her power. Her every thought, word, and act therefore tended and was calculated to preserve her influence there ; to him she sacrificed her time, for him she mortified her inclination ; she looked, spake, and breathed but for him, like a weathercock to every capricious blast of his uncertain temper, and governed him (if such influence so gained can bear the name of government) by being as great a slave to him thus ruled, as any other wife could be to a man who ruled her. For all the tedious hours she spent then in watching him whilst he slept, or the heavier task of entertaining him whilst he was awake, her single consolation was in reflecting she had power, and that people in coffeehouses and ruelles were saying she governed this country, without knowing how dear the government of it cost her.

This was not how G2 saw it, of course:
The King himself was so little sensible of this being his case, that one day enumerating the people who had governed this country in other reigns, he said Charles I. was governed by his wife ; Charles II. by his mistresses ; King James by his priests ; King William by his men—and Queen Anne by her women—favourites. His father, he added, had been by anybody that could get at him. And at the end of this compendious history of our great and wise monarchs, with a significant, satisfied, triumphant air, he turned about, smiling, to one of his auditors, and asked him—"And who do they say governs now?"
Whether this is a true or a false story of the King, I know not, but it was currently reported and generally believed. The following verses will serve for a specimen of the strain in which the libels, satires, and lampoons of these days were omposed :
—
" You may strut, dapper George, but 't will all be in vain ;
We know 'tis Queen Caroline, not you, that reign—
You govern no more than Don Philip of Spain.
Then if you would have us fall down and adore you,
Lock up your fat spouse, as your dad did before you." '

And as for that love rat, Fritz of Wales:

The Prince's character at his first coming over, though little more respectable, seemed much more amiable than, upon his opening himself further and being better known, it turned out to be ; for though there appeared nothing in him to be admired, yet there seemed nothing in him to be hated—neither anything great nor anything vicious ; his behaviour was something that gained one's good wishes, though it gave one no esteem for him ; for his best qualities, whilst they prepossessed one the most in his favour, always gave one a degree of contempt for him at the same time ; his carriage, whilst it seemed engaging to those who did not examine it, appearing mean to those who did : for though his manners had the show of benevolence from a good deal of natural or habitual civility, yet his cajoling everybody, and almost in an equal degree, made those things which might have been thought favours, if more judiciously or sparingly bestowed, lose all their weight. He carried this affectation of general benevolence so far that he often condescended below the character of a Prince; and as people attributed this familiarity to popular, and not particular motives, so it only lessened their respect without increasing their good will, and instead of giving them good impressions of his humanity, only gave them ill ones of his sincerity. He was indeed as false as his capacity would allow him to be, and was more capable in that walk than in any other, never having the least hesitation, from principle or fear of future detection, in telling any lie that served his present purpose. He had a much weaker understanding, and, if possible, a more obstinate temper, than his father ; that is, more tenacious of opinions he had once formed, though less capable of ever forming right ones.
Had he had one grain of merit at the bottom of his heart, one should have had compassion for him in the situation to which his miserable poor head soon reduced him ; for his case, in short, was this :—he had a father that abhorred him, a mother that despised him, sisters that betrayed him, a brother set up against him, and a set of servants that neglected him, and were neither of use, nor capable of being of use to him, nor desirous of being so.

There, there, Hervey. Celebrity break-ups are the worst, we know. Have a glass with Voltaire.

From:

selenak

This is especially for

cahn. The Princess Royal is the oldest daughter, Anne, married to William of Orange (not that one, another one). Like the rest of the family, see above, an enemy of her brother Fritz of Wales after he showed up as an adult:

Another judicious subject of his enmity was her supporting Handel, a German musician and composer (who had been her singing master, and was now undertaker of one of the operas), against several of the nobility who had a pique with Handel, and had set up another person to ruin him ; or, to speak more properly and exactly, the Prince, in the beginning of his enmity to his sister, set himself at the head of the other opera to irritate her, whose pride and passions were as strong as her brother's (although his understanding was so much weaker), and could brook contradiction, where she dared to resent it, as little as her father. What I have related may seem a trifle ; but though the cause was indeed such, the effects of it were no trifles. The King and Queen were as much in earnest upon this subject as their son and daughter, though they had the prudence to disguise it, or to endeavour to disguise it, a little more. They were both Handelists, and sat freezing constantly at his empty Haymarket Opera, whilst the Prince with all the chief of the nobility went as constantly to that of Lincoln's Inn Fields. The affair grew as serious as that of the Greens and the Blues under Justinian at Constantinople; an anti-Handelist was looked upon as an anticourtier ; and voting against the Court in Parliament was hardly a less remissible or more venial sin than speaking against Handel or going to the Lincoln's Inn Fields Opera. The Princess Royal said she expected in a little while to see half the House of Lords playing in the orchestra in their robes and coronets ; and the King—though he declared he took no other part in this affair than subscribing lOOO pound. a-year to Handel—often added at the same time that " he did not think setting oneself at the head of a faction of fiddlers a very honourable occupation for people of quality ; or the ruin of one poor fellow [Handel] so generous or so good-natured a scheme as to do much honour to the undertakers, whether they succeeded or not ; but the better they succeeded in it, the more he thought they would have reason to be ashamed of it." The Princess Royal quarrelled with the Lord Chamberlain for affecting his usual neutrality on this occasion, and spoke of Lord Delaware, who was one of the chief managers against Handel, with as much spleen as if he had been at the head of the Dutch faction who opposed the making her husband Stadtholder.'

From:

selenak

:) I mean, I could be wrong. But when I checked and saw Halsband doesn't provide any other source than Hervey himself for the whole "Miss Vane wanted me so badly that she relaunched our affair in secret and even spied for me on Fritz of Wales, even though outwardsly we still pretended to be mortal enemies, so no one ever knew!" tale, my inner sceptic struck.

Incidentally, now that I've learned how Hervey behaved in his other love triangle, I must say the cattiness in writing Algarotti that Lady Mary's looks don't match her mind looks downright mild in comparison, and again, that he kept absolutely mum about all of it and the Lady Mary haters like Pope and Horace Walpole never found out says a lot.