Just a progress report for tonight: Mina's just gotten shafted by Kalckreuth and Heinrich.
Also 20 pages of Wilhelmine memoirs, woot. I *think* she's getting slightly easier with practice. Which is good, because there's 400 pages of practice left. :D Also, these pages are longer than Ziebura's: about 100 words per page longer, according to my sampling.
* Louise: you should pay me in Brandenburgian gold, because it doesn't matter whether AW's posthumous debts are paid a few months earlier or a few months later.
...Maybe it matters to the people who are getting paid? The economy's pretty shaky for all of you.
* Wait, Wilhelmine Encke was 12 when FW2 fell in love with her?? Also, wait, Ziebura's dates don't match Wikipedia's. According to Ziebura, she was 12 in 1764 (cahn, FW2 was 19), but according to Wikipedia, she was born December 29, 1753, so in 1764, she'd be 10.
Ziebura says she became his lover in 1766, at which point she would have been 14 according to Ziebura and 12 according to Wikipedia, and then official mistress in 1769, when she was 15 (and he was 24).
* Do I have this right?
Kalckreuth drops onto his knee and grabs Mina's hand just as his conspirator makes sure to lead Heinrich in. One of Mina's ladies was like, "It's not what it looks like! He was asking her permission to marry me!" Heinrich was like, "Dammit. I could have gotten a divorce. Okay, but now you have to marry her, Kalckreuth." Now loyal friend of Mina Fräulein von Morrien gets stuck married to jerk!Kalckreuth, living in East Prussia and dying in childbed a year later??
No good deed goes unpunished, I guess. :/
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
Oof, looking at the dates, Ziebura says she was 12 years older than Kalckreuth, which means she was...41/42 when giving birth. I can see where that might have been an especially rough birth.
...Next time just punch him in the nose until he bleeds.
Wilhelmine Enke: Wiki doesn't agree with each other. German wiki names 1752 as her year of birth. The famous novel about her has her twelve when she meets future FW2, so presumably it draws on the same source Ziebura does for the birth date, which isn't wiki. (With 1769 named as the year the relationship turned sexual.) Either way, yes, she was young! Now, given all the other mistresses FW2 had were older, and given the relationship with her lasted a life time, I don't think he was into pubescent girls per se, but it makes it doubly infuriating that the Prussian media - and certainly Sophie von Voss - painted her as the evil seductress.
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
So am I. The daughter she had with Kalckreuth was called Wilhelmine, after Mina, I assume. The son who get the memoirs dictated to and is all "my Dad: so misunderstood!" in the introduction was from a second marriage.
Wilhelmine Enke: Wiki doesn't agree with each other. German wiki names 1752 as her year of birth.
*facepalm*
One day, I will learn to countercheck German wiki! (Probably around the time I can read it without help, which we're getting closer to, woohoo.)
Now, given all the other mistresses FW2 had were older, and given the relationship with her lasted a life time, I don't think he was into pubescent girls per se, but it makes it doubly infuriating that the Prussian media - and certainly Sophie von Voss - painted her as the evil seductress.
Always blame the woman! I like Ziebura calling out "pious Louise" for not having a word to say about the 'sins' of her son, when Louise is going on about Elisabeth and how properly repentant she is.
it doesn't matter whether AW's posthumous debts are paid a few months earlier or a few months later.
Evidently, when she died 22 years later, her estate was used to pay off his still outstanding debts.
Wasn't Fritz still paying off 1730s debts in the 1760s? *searches* Yeah, to Joseph Wenzel, Prince of Liechtenstein, previous owner of the Antinous statue.
-man, I'm glad that Fritz was nice to Louise. Sigh.
-"Louise Amalie could sense from her own experience what [Mina] was feeling. She forgot her resentment and was friendly towards her." Aw Louise, you really are the best.
-"With regard to his successor, the king asked himself the worried question: \"How can a being who cannot control himself be able to control others?" ("Sire! Half the earth obeys you: are you yourself then, in your vast States, the only person you cannot keep in check?" --mildred, this is something Rodrigo says to Philip in Don Carlo :) )
she later remarked to her loyal friend, Count Lehndorff, that in all the years of their marriage they had only had eight happy days at most.
This is going to be a continual theme, but HEINRICH. YOU ARE THE WORST. I'm glad she had some friends, and that Amalie and EC and Louise and Fritz still liked her after the whole Kalckreuth thing *sigh*
Fritz: Well, I mean, I also got to tick off Heinrich. Win-win!
Lehndorff blamed Kalckreuth for all these twists and turns at the Rheinsberg court and accused the princess and her ladies of having followed his bad advice.
While I don't disagree, this is... definitely very much in character for Lehndorff *pats his head*
Friedrich wrote to his sister Ulrike von Schweden on June 10, 1767: [AW's son] was his father's image, he possessed all his good qualities without having his faults.
I know you guys have told me about this letter before, but IT IS STILL INFURIATING!
* Typing up the chronology, I discovered that FW2's two (non-morganatic) marriages took place on July 14, 1765 and 1769, both at Charlottenburg. Same anniversary and everything.
* Rumors that Ferdinand's youngest kids weren't his--has this come up before?
* Ferdinand's first son, according to English Wikipedia (German wiki doesn't give the full names) is named...Friedrich Heinrich Emil Karl! 1769-1773. (Moral of the story: don't name your kid Beth, Cedric, or Karl Emil. :P)
* Ziebura when Fritz dies: "The mighty star that had held their lives under his spell and had determined their courses, was extinguished."
Blanning when Fritz dies: "The iron band that held them to their labors finally snapped."
Unconscious echo on Blanning's part? I wouldn't be surprised if this line was based on some contemporary account, though.
Rumor: it's in Ferdinand's German wiki entry, I think, but from what few mentions I could see in books, it doesn't seem to be based on more than widely shared dislike of his wife, love of gossip and the fact that Ferdinand post 7 Years War never lost the habit of appearing sickly in public. Lehndorff - who doesn't like Mrs. Ferdinand, repeatedly laments in volume 1 that marriage has changed Ferdinand, and much later suspects some of her kids being attentive to Heinrich because they're after the heritage - in the 1799 journal makes zero mention of this, and not in the previous journals, either. I'm assuming if he thought there was something to it he'd have mentioned it. Otoh, despite his dislike of Mrs. Ferdinand, he does mention she fusses over her husband and making sure he's always warm and comfortable when Lehndorff visits in the winter of early 1799, which is decades after they married, and Lehndorff isn't someone she'd want to impress at this point.
Karl Emils are doomed, clearly. At least when born into the Hohenzollern clan.
Well, Fritz as a star (making the others planets or comets?) is a far more flattering imagery than Fritz as an iron chain shackling involuntary laborers!
Thank you for the write-up of the (current) evidence for and against the Ferdinand rumors.
Well, Fritz as a star (making the others planets or comets?) is a far more flattering imagery than Fritz as an iron chain shackling involuntary laborers!
I also thank you for the evidence writeup! Yet again Lehndorff is a treasure :D (I get the sense from your comments that a nontrivial part of his utility -- besides that he's so readable and engaging -- is that he really isn't someone that people feel the need to impress, I imagine particularly later on, so it's possible to take his observations at face value rather than worry too much about whether there are other factors at play.
Though I suppose the flip side to that is that in many ways he's not super self-aware so one has to filter through that, e.g. MESSALINA :) But that's better, I suppose, than having to filter through whether he's making up stories about his exes :P )
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timeasmymeasure
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-16 03:26 am (UTC)Also 20 pages of Wilhelmine memoirs, woot. I *think* she's getting slightly easier with practice. Which is good, because there's 400 pages of practice left. :D Also, these pages are longer than Ziebura's: about 100 words per page longer, according to my sampling.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-16 01:29 pm (UTC)...Maybe it matters to the people who are getting paid? The economy's pretty shaky for all of you.
* Wait, Wilhelmine Encke was 12 when FW2 fell in love with her?? Also, wait, Ziebura's dates don't match Wikipedia's. According to Ziebura, she was 12 in 1764 (
Ziebura says she became his lover in 1766, at which point she would have been 14 according to Ziebura and 12 according to Wikipedia, and then official mistress in 1769, when she was 15 (and he was 24).
* Do I have this right?
Kalckreuth drops onto his knee and grabs Mina's hand just as his conspirator makes sure to lead Heinrich in. One of Mina's ladies was like, "It's not what it looks like! He was asking her permission to marry me!" Heinrich was like, "Dammit. I could have gotten a divorce. Okay, but now you have to marry her, Kalckreuth." Now loyal friend of Mina Fräulein von Morrien gets stuck married to jerk!Kalckreuth, living in East Prussia and dying in childbed a year later??
No good deed goes unpunished, I guess. :/
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
Oof, looking at the dates, Ziebura says she was 12 years older than Kalckreuth, which means she was...41/42 when giving birth. I can see where that might have been an especially rough birth.
...Next time just punch him in the nose until he bleeds.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-16 02:51 pm (UTC)I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
So am I. The daughter she had with Kalckreuth was called Wilhelmine, after Mina, I assume. The son who get the memoirs dictated to and is all "my Dad: so misunderstood!" in the introduction was from a second marriage.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-18 01:04 am (UTC)*facepalm*
One day, I will learn to countercheck German wiki! (Probably around the time I can read it without help, which we're getting closer to, woohoo.)
Now, given all the other mistresses FW2 had were older, and given the relationship with her lasted a life time, I don't think he was into pubescent girls per se, but it makes it doubly infuriating that the Prussian media - and certainly Sophie von Voss - painted her as the evil seductress.
Always blame the woman! I like Ziebura calling out "pious Louise" for not having a word to say about the 'sins' of her son, when Louise is going on about Elisabeth and how properly repentant she is.
Argh.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-19 04:53 am (UTC)So am I.
Me too :( That was a terrible story! Why does real life not conform to better storytelling conventions >:(
Maybe she at least got some good sex, Kalckreuth being hot and all? But still this all sucks.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-19 01:42 am (UTC)Evidently, when she died 22 years later, her estate was used to pay off his still outstanding debts.
Wasn't Fritz still paying off 1730s debts in the 1760s? *searches* Yeah, to Joseph Wenzel, Prince of Liechtenstein, previous owner of the Antinous statue.
Lol, you guys.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-19 05:14 am (UTC)-"Louise Amalie could sense from her own experience what [Mina] was feeling. She forgot her resentment and was friendly towards her." Aw Louise, you really are the best.
-"With regard to his successor, the king asked himself the worried question: \"How can a being who cannot control himself be able to control others?"
("Sire! Half the earth obeys you:
are you yourself then, in your vast States,
the only person you cannot keep in check?"
--mildred, this is something Rodrigo says to Philip in Don Carlo :) )
she later remarked to her loyal friend, Count Lehndorff, that in all the years of their marriage they had only had eight happy days at most.
This is going to be a continual theme, but HEINRICH. YOU ARE THE WORST. I'm glad she had some friends, and that Amalie and EC and Louise and Fritz still liked her after the whole Kalckreuth thing *sigh*
Fritz: Well, I mean, I also got to tick off Heinrich. Win-win!
Lehndorff blamed Kalckreuth for all these twists and turns at the Rheinsberg court and accused the princess and her ladies of having followed his bad advice.
While I don't disagree, this is... definitely very much in character for Lehndorff *pats his head*
Friedrich wrote to his sister Ulrike von Schweden on June 10, 1767: [AW's son] was his father's image, he possessed all his good qualities without having his faults.
I know you guys have told me about this letter before, but IT IS STILL INFURIATING!
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-19 02:31 am (UTC)* Rumors that Ferdinand's youngest kids weren't his--has this come up before?
* Ferdinand's first son, according to English Wikipedia (German wiki doesn't give the full names) is named...Friedrich Heinrich Emil Karl! 1769-1773. (Moral of the story: don't name your kid Beth, Cedric, or Karl Emil. :P)
* Ziebura when Fritz dies: "The mighty star that had held their lives under his spell and had determined their courses, was extinguished."
Blanning when Fritz dies: "The iron band that held them to their labors finally snapped."
Unconscious echo on Blanning's part? I wouldn't be surprised if this line was based on some contemporary account, though.
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-19 04:01 pm (UTC)Karl Emils are doomed, clearly. At least when born into the Hohenzollern clan.
Well, Fritz as a star (making the others planets or comets?) is a far more flattering imagery than Fritz as an iron chain shackling involuntary laborers!
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-20 07:18 pm (UTC)Well, Fritz as a star (making the others planets or comets?) is a far more flattering imagery than Fritz as an iron chain shackling involuntary laborers!
But is it more accurate, asks Heinrich. :P
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-21 05:14 am (UTC)Though I suppose the flip side to that is that in many ways he's not super self-aware so one has to filter through that, e.g. MESSALINA :) But that's better, I suppose, than having to filter through whether he's making up stories about his exes :P )