I can't believe we're a third of the way through this book and we're still negotiating her marriage, zomg.
* The Hannovers (Guelphs) had to make permission to visit Hannover one of their conditions for accepting the throne of GB. This is ringing a bell, but I'd forgotten that. I can see why it became a point of contention.
* In 1724/1725, the Magdeburgers brought some sort of lawsuit against FW at the Imperial Court? Do you know anything more about this, selenak?
* Lol, so we already knew Seckendorff sometimes couldn't write reports the next morning because of the insane hangover from keeping up with FW the night before, and we knew he used to suck on an empty pipe at the tobacco parliament, but it was entertaining reading Oster's write-up of how "the staunch non-smoker got permission to put an empty pipe in his mouth for form's sake," and how periodically Seckendorff had to go take the waters to recover a little from the hardcore job of being the most successful envoy at FW's court. This is why I maintain that if FW had wanted sex, Seckendorff would have done whatever it took to advance the cause of Seckendorff.
Also, he lived to be 90, so I guess the lifestyle didn't ruin his health *too* much. :P
* Another minor character: Adrian Bernhard von Borcke is the father of FW2 educator Borcke.
* In July 1728, French Count Rottembourg says he has reason to believe Fritz will try running away. Now, my sources all say that he was recalled from Prussia in 1727 and stationed in Spain. So either he has contacts that are keeping him up to date, or Fritz was talking about running away even before that, or both.
* Speaking of running away...remember how on January 21, 1730 Peter got sent to Wesel and Fritz's governors got strict instructions to sleep with him every single night? And Koser said that the governor order was because FW feared Fritz trying to escape?
This is the first time I've seen evidence for that (as opposed to other types of nocturnal shenanigans) being the reason: on January 31, Oster says FW returns to Berlin, where all the envoys write reports expressing their surprise at how he's letting Fritz off with a mild scolding, in light of a recent anonymous letter FW received warning him that Fritz has escape plans. Proposed envoy reasons for this uncharacteristic behavior:
- This milder treatment is only apparent, not real. - FW's trying the carrot instead of the stick. - FW's trying to keep Fritz from encouraging Wilhelmine in her resistance to her prospective bridegrooms.
No dice on the last one, says Oster: Fritz is willing to suffer anything if it keeps Wilhelmine out of a miserable marriage! Oster will later quote the letter from Fritz to Wilhelmine saying, "Don't get married just to get me out of prison, I mean it."
Aaaand, Oster cites Fritz writing in 1730 to the Margrave of Schwedt that if he marries Wilhelmine, he'll "regret it sooner or later," the implication being when Fritz becomes king. This would fit well in a Mafia AU, along with "You know who we should kidnap, Heinrich?" :P
Poor younger sister Sophia Dorothea. :/
* SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
* I like the way Oster analyzes "But did event X in Wilhelmine's memoirs *really* happen?" every so often I've been wondering what's backed up with documentary evidence and what isn't.
1) FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
2) August the Strong trying to get Wilhelmine married to Weißenfels: definitely not, says Oster.
I was not aware that Weißenfels was a possible rival to the Saxon electorate due to religion, and that this might lie behind FW's interest in getting Wilhelmine married to him. That was interesting!
3) August letting his son decide he didn't want to marry Wilhelmine: seems unlikely, says Oster.
I mean, I'm sure there would have been pressure, but not everyone is FW? Even Wilhelmine got to turn down a couple candidates (at a high price) before accepting one under duress. I'm neutral on this point, pending further evidence...
* When Ferdinand was born and SD was bedridden, FW showed favor to Wilhelmine by letting her look after 4-yo Heinrich...who at the time was his favorite? What about AW?
Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war.
* Huh. So I did remember that the idea of Fritz becoming governor in Hannover until FW died was proposed as part of the marriage deal, but Oster adds that the British agreed to this, only instead of giving the governorship to Fritz, they would give it to A WOMAN Amelia!
I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
* Also! G2 says that due to their youth, Fritz and Amelia would live in England at first. So I'm wrong, we *don't* need a successful escape AU in order to get Fritz at the British court while G2 and Caroline are accusing Wilhelmine of faking her pregnancy and FoW is trying to get her into a carriage to St. James in the presence of the brother who's perfectly willing to threaten her prospective husbands with vague but dire future consequences.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
* Speaking of not wishing things on Wilhelmine, Oster says Melusine expressed pity for Wilhelmine as the future wife of FoW. I suppose our speculation about her being on good terms with FoW (politically, if nothing else) wouldn't rule out realizing he's not great husband material.
cahn, remember that any time you see the Duchess of Kendal, that's Katte's "aunt" Melusine, mistress of G1.
(I still can't believe that one lecturer thought she was a fictional character inspired by a Fontane novel; my copy of Zeithain has a Personenregister listing who everyone is and their dates, and she's in there!
EHRENGARD MELUSINE VON DER SCHULENBURG, Herzogin von Kendal (ab 1719), * 25.12.1667 in Emden; † 10.5.1743 in Kendal House, Isleworth bei Brentford, Mätresse von Georg I., König von England)
* Oster trusts Catt, sigh. Thanks be that you read prefaces, selenak. Otherwise, *I* would still trust Catt!
At a guess, Oster trusting Catt is your explanation for four years old Heinrich being declared FW's fave by him; Catt, remember, claims he was. Now of course I'm prepared to be wrong and to have missed something/misremember, but I don't recall that babysitting story during SD's labor from Wilhelmine's memoirs, and a quick cursory check on my kindle copy doesn't give me that story. With your recent far more thorough reading of the year 1730 in her memoirs, do you recall anything like it? So unless Oster provides a different source citation for the anecdote - say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably), I'm going with my "faith in Catt strikes again" guess.
At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore. Note that in the letters from eight years old AW to FW which Cahn could read, which describe what the boys do all day, there's no mention of Mom or their oldest sister anywhere, just of Heinrich and their tutors.
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
No kidding. It really shows how soon she got fixated on that idea.
FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong. Now maybe it's just because Fritz assumes his sister would want to know more about their host, but date wise, it works with when the memoirs say the match was talked about, i.e. between FW's short lived "am gonna abdicate and live the true Christian life with my wife and daughters at Wusterhausen" idea and the Dresden visit. Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
LOL. And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too. Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
Quite. And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
Oster trusting Catt is your explanation for four years old Heinrich being declared FW's fave by him; Catt, remember, claims he was.
Oh, right! I'd forgotten that, but yes. Okay, that makes sense.
So unless Oster provides a different source citation for the anecdote - say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably), I'm going with my "faith in Catt strikes again" guess.
I...I can't tell. Here's the passage:
In dieser Atmosphäre konnte es sogar Wilhelmine wagen, ihrem Vater wieder unter die Augen zu treten, nachdem ihr Brief dessen Zorn bereits hatte erweichen lassen. Auch diese Szene hat der braunschweigische Gesandte am 4. März geschildert: »Wie sie nun ... hereingerufen, habe sich die älteste Prinzessin zu des Königs Füßen geworfen und selbe umfasset; da sie der König bei die Hand genommen und aufstehen heißen. Als sie aber dem König die Hand küssen wollte, war ihr solches resusiret [verwehrt], die Königin ihr darauf einen Wink gebend, war sie [Wilhelmine] dem Könige um den Hals gefallen und ihn geküsset, dabei sagend: ›Papa hat eine Ungnade auf mich geworfen, so mir länger unerträglich fällt. Ich bitte kindlich, Papa lasse mir doch die vorige Gnade wieder verspüren‹; welche Worte die Prinzessin bei Vergießung vieler Tränen hervorgebracht ... Der König habe darauf wieder versetzet: ›Es ist nun alles gut, Wilhelmine, du bist allemal meine liebe Tochter.‹« Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war. »Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzessin ihre Richtigkeit habe.«
The bit about taking care of Heinrich and Heinrich being the favorite aren't in the direct quote. But if they're from Catt and not the envoy, then the "Hieraus" is very misleading, to say the least. So the taking care of Heinrich story looks like it must come from the Brunswick envoy, even if the "he was the favorite" could possibly be an addendum from Catt.
Brunswick envoy on March 4: "Touching reconciliation between Wilhelmine and FW, everybody cries," in direct quote from the envoy report.
End direct quote.
Oster adds that FW is in such a good mood that he tells Wilhelmine, while SD is in childbed, to take care of Heinrich, who at the time was his favorite.
Resume Brunswick envoy direct quote: "From this, we can [or "we'd like to"?] conclude that the reconciliation between the King and Princess is real." [I'm taking "ihre Richtigkeit habe" to mean "has veracity," i.e. "is real," and the context to be the fact that just in the last month, the envoys have been writing home, "Is FW really being nice to Fritz, or is this just a show for our benefit?"]
So while I don't remember this anecdote from the memoirs, to answer selenak's question, the anecdote itself seems to be real, though I can't tell whether the envoy vouches for Heinrich being the favorite that year. (If he was, I really want to know what happened to make AW lose that spot temporarily.)
I also don't remember this anecdote from Catt, which is not to say it's not there, though I do remember Heinrich being the favorite, now that I'm reminded.
[ETA: Though I should add that I do remember, if my memory isn't faulty, a very similar episode earlier in the memoirs in which Wilhelmine was given charge of a different younger sibling or siblings. I will need to look that up.]
say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably)
Oster actually quotes a lot from Stratemann, the Brunswick envoy, whom I didn't know about. As I said, there's a lot of good, new-to-me information in this book, and I'm glad I'm reading it!
At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore.
Honorary position just to show that she's in favor again? I'm not sure, I was wondering this myself. And yes, I did wonder how this worked with him being in AW's household now.
Good question!
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
Please do, when you get the chance (I know you're traveling), and let me know where you find it, if you do. I'm interested in this sort of thing, and my admittedly cursory Google didn't turn anything up. If I have time, I might do a more thorough Googling.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong.
Oh, right! I'm so glad there are two of us: I remember the things you forget, and you remember the things I forget. :D
Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
This makes total sense.
And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too.
Right? I mean, most people who aren't Louise do, but seriously. Powder keg, lit fuse...disaster waiting to happen.
Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
Sadly, as much as Fritz has a praise kink, I have my doubts about her chances of success.
And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
Clearly, we'll have to read up on Stratemann of Brunswick, too, to find out whether he reports the "take charge of the (so far) youngest "story as well or whether Oster has it from another source. Also, like you so often said, Mildred: the envoys are where it's at! :)
More seriously, given AW gets Fritz' regiment toute suite that year and is made Colonel, and we have sunny letters to Dad which Ziebura quotes, I'm not sure what would have made FW temporarily rearrange his favourites children list. I mean, he was in a spectacularly bad mood for much of the year as well, as amply documented in the Fritzian context, so he may not have needed a reason, but it would still be very surprising, especially since Heinrich doesn't rate individual instructions to his stewards but is lumped under "the young princes" together with Ferdinand, and I'm sure that if Ziebura had found an FW remark especially about Heinrich indicating favor, she'd have quoted it, having gone through not just the published but the unpublished family correspondance at the state archive. Usually if you like a kid best, you talk about said kid. Not to mention that apparantly we have letters from Wilhelmine, from Fritz, from Charlotte and from AW to FW in the archive, all of which I've seen quoted, but not from child Heinrich. At a guess, if a letter from child!Wilhelmine survives in which she sends Dad her drawn tooth, a letter from temporary fave Heinrich would have been preserved as well, if such a letter had existed.
All this said: as long as they are babies and toddlers, the youngest children of a large family tend to be either neglected or spoiled, no? Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality. That's always assuming the Brunswick envoy did report this, as opposed to Oster getting his info from Catt.
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Clearly, we'll have to read up on Stratemann of Brunswick
Great minds think alike! A quick glance through Oster when I was doing that write-up didn't show me what the source for Stratemann is, nor have I googled, but those items are on my to-do list.
Also, like you so often said, Mildred: the envoys are where it's at! :)
Also exactly what I was thinking when I realized we have a new envoy!
Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality.
Maybe? And as you've pointed out, AW was Heinrich's hero, so maybe FW heard about how Heinrich just adored his new roommate and looked up to him in everything, and FW thought, "That boy's going places!" (He is, just not in the way you might think, FW.)
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Oh, Förster, you're right! Hmm, I've put "Förster detective work" on my to-do list, assuming you don't get around to "Förster write-up from the royal reader" first. ;)
Clearly, we'll have to read up on Stratemann of Brunswick, too
Update: a 300-page volume of envoy reports from Stratemann for 1728-1733 (sweeeet!) has been obtained, and will be uploaded to the library when I wake up. :)
Fingers crossed I can get volume 3 of the Lady Mary letters after receiving a duplicate copy of volume 1 today, because it was only $13, and the next cheapest copy is like $40. Awaiting word from the bookseller. Volumes 1-2 are safely in hand, and will be digitized and uploaded at some point.
ETA: Though I should add that I do remember, if my memory isn't faulty, a very similar episode earlier in the memoirs in which Wilhelmine was given charge of a different younger sibling or siblings. I will need to look that up.
I was not misremembering! This passage is from 1725, so the year Wilhelmine turned 16:
In the mean time I was at Berlin in great favour with the king: I passed every afternoon in conversation with him, and he used to sup in my room. He even shewed me some confidence, and often spoke of state affairs. To give me a still greater mark of distinction, he ordered me to hold a drawing-room like the queen. The governesses of my sisters were placed under my command, and had orders not to stir a step without my knowledge. I did not abuse the king’s favour. Young as I was, there was as much solidity in my conduct then, as there can be now ; and I might have superintended the education of my sisters: but I did myself justice, and clearly perceived that it did not become me; neither would I hold a drawing room. I contented myself with inviting a few ladies every day.
So I think it's possible we'll find Heinrich in her care in the Stratemann volume tomorrow.
Found it! It's the entry on March 4th 1730. Heinrich isn't called FW's favourite (and btw, this Ambassador has a lot about AW earlier just by name searching, FW is even supposed to have given AW Wusterhausen, and organizes special fireworks for him, AW is described as his firm favourite), and it's only the second time he shows up at all (earlier, Stratmann notes he's joined AW's household), but Wilhelmine is told to look after him (in one particular situation) as a sign of FW's forgiveness. The situation: SD has a difficult pregnany, FW tells his "Fieke" that God has given her to him for 24 yers now, he wants to keep her, God can do to the baby whatever he wants as long as he lets FW keep SD. Then he asks her whether she wants to see her children. SD says yes, and that the two oldest should be in the antechambre. FW allows all to enter, enter they do, he's greeted but refuses to give Wilhelmine his hand to kiss because he's still angry. SD gives Wilhelmine a signal, Wilhelmine puts her arms around FW's neck, cries and pleads for him to show her his grace again, he says "It is alright, Wilhelmine, you are my dear daughter".
In the evening, the kids all dine in the antechambre, FW keeps going between the antechambre and SD's bedroom and:
Des Abends hatten alle Königliche Kinder in der VorCammer speisen müssen, da der König zwischen der Königinn Bette und solcher Tafel beständig, unter lieblichen Anreden, spazieren gangen; und wie Se. Majestät angemercket, daß der kleinste Prinz Heinrich geweint, und nach der Ursache gefraget, der Cron-Printz auch darauf geantwortet: daß sein Bruder von den Fischen eßen wollte, so man Ihm gegen die Nacht zu geben weigerte; hatte der König zu der ältesten Prinzeß gesaget: Wilhelmine! gib du Ihm nur ein wenig und will ich dir hiermit aufgetragen haben: daß du, so lange Mama krank ist, Sorge vor Heinrichen trägest. Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzeß ihre Richtigkeit habe, da sonst der König, wegen Ihr angetragener aber von Ihr refusierter sichern Mariage mit Ihr in einigen Wochen nicht sprechen wollen; woher dann auch der lieben Königinn Maladie wohl guten Theils ihren Ursprung genommen haben mag.
From the Rokoko German (he's a Braunschweig envoy and apparantly not fluent in French, he writes German): "...and when his majesty noticed that the smallest Prince, Heinrich, was crying, and asked for the cause, the Crown Prince replied that his brother had wanted to eat from the fish which had been refused to him to eat in the evening; then the King told the oldest Princess: Wilhelmine! do give him a bit, and I want to charge you to look after Heinrich as long as Mama is still so ill. From this, one wants to conclude that the reconciliation between the King and the Princess is for real, for otherwise the King due to the marriage she'd been offered and she'd had refused had himself refused to speak to her for several weeks now; which may have been the cause of the malady of the dear queen.
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Thank you! Rococo babysitting: not just for older brothers. :D
this Ambassador has a lot about AW earlier just by name searching, FW is even supposed to have given AW Wusterhausen, and organizes special fireworks for him, AW is described as his firm favourite
Sounds like another valuable envoy for us. :)
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Thank you! Rococo babysitting: not just for older brothers. :D
Fritz: Though did anyone notice my statement was the reason why the brat got his bloody fish? And did he say thank you? Ha. Gratitude and Heinrich were strangers from the beginning.
In 1724/1725, the Magdeburgers brought some sort of lawsuit against FW at the Imperial Court?
I was busy looking into this, and I still haven't found it, but what I did find was very interesting.
Brandenburg had possessed the expectation of certain limited rights in Limpurg since 1693...When the last count died in August 1713 without male heirs, Brandenburg-Prussia occupied the territory. This prompted the widowed countess to appeal to the Reichshofrat to secure the continued autonomous existence of the county. The Reichshofrat subsequently sent the Emperor a report, which related that 'Prussia invaded the Limpurg lands with a whole battalion, and even failed to spare the widowed countess’s castle from being occupied by soldiers.'
Citation: "Imperial law versus geopolitical interest: the Reichshofrat and the protection of smaller states in the Holy Roman Empire under Charles VI (1711-40)", Patrick Milton, a heavily footnoted academic paper from 2015 with primary source citations (including envoy reports), available here.
The difference being that FW recognized imperial authority and grudgingly backed down when the Reichshofrat told him to. I guess he *didn't* start a war of aggression over it.
But yeeeeeah. Between this and FW's decision to go to war to get Swedish Pomerania in 1715, I'm at least half side-eyeing that political testament.
ETA: This table looks so much better in preview. Sigh.
Magdeburg: Förster came through with the documentation. To let you practise your German, I'll the entire passage in the German original. English summary: FW taxes Magdeburg, which includes taxing Magdeburg's knights for their horses. Magdeburg's nobles are indignant and sue him at the Reichshofgericht. The later finds for the Magdeburg nobles and threatens to put FW under the Reichsbann if he doesn't desist. (This is what will happen to Fritz in the 7 Years War for invading Saxony.) FW tells his comissioners to give Magdeburg's nobles hell any way they can and complains to Seckendorff that he's treated as if he were a dirty rebel who'd raised his sword against the Emperor, and, like, invaded, when he's just demanding his rights as a sovereign lord from the Magdeburg nobility (who are his subjects, after all), and where's my respect, dude? Förster then says that FW ignored the court, and since the Emperor at this point wanted him as an ally he let it pass and let the Magdeburg nobility fend for themselves, which means they caved and paid their horsetaxes. BTW, looking for this, I also came across Förster, writing in 1832, believing in the evil Catholic conspiracy to marry Fritz to MT (or her sister), which our hero escaped due to his and FW's integrity.
(Gr. = Groschen. Pf: Pfennige. Th. = Taler.)
In dem Herzogthume Magdeburg wurde die Contribution aus einer Menge verschiedener Auflagen und Steuern erhoben. 1) Von dem Scheffel Aussaat wurden nach der verschiedenen Güte des Bodens gezahlt: 10 Pf., 7 Pf., 5 Pf, 2 Pf. 2) Giebel- und Häuſerschoß nach der Größe der Bauernhöfe, Kossäthen-Tagelöhnerhäuſer monatlich 16 Gr., 12 Gr., 8 Gr., 6 Gr. und 4 Gr. 3) Von Gärten-, Wiesen-, Holz-, Mast-, Fischerei-, Hopfen-, Rohr-, Weinbergs-, Steinbruchs-, Zehnten-, Brau-, Salz- c. Nutzung von jedem gewonnenen Thaler 1 Gr. zur Contribution. 4) Viehsteuer: von einem Pferde jährlich im guten Lande 16 Gr., im Sandlande 8 Gr., von jedem Ochsen, jeder Kuh 6 Gr., jedem Rinde 2 Gr., jedem Schafe 1 Gr. 5) Tranksteuer oder Consumtions-Accise auf dem Lande, von jedem Faß inländischen Bier 12 Gr., von dem aus anderen königlichen Provinzen 1 Thaler. 6 Gr., von ausländischem 2 Thaler. Auf die Hufen geschlagen betrug die Contribution hier 16 Thaler. 21 Gr. 5 Pf, für die Hufe. Gegen die Einführung der Lehnpferdegelder sträubte sich die magdeburgische Ritterschaft, und da der König mit Gewalt einschritt und Execution anordnete, verklagten ihn die Betheiligten bei dem Reichshofrathe in Wien. Dieser erkannte zu Gunsten der Edelleute, und der Kaiser drohte sogar, gegen den König die Reichs-Execution anzuordnen, im Fall er sich nicht dem Ausspruch des Reichshofraths fügen würde. Dieser Prozeß zog sich sehr in die Länge und machte dem Könige vielen Verdruß. In der Instruktion für das General-Directorium vom 20. December 1722 befiehlt er daher dem königlichen Commissariat in Magdeburg: »diesen renitirenden Edelleuten allerhand Chicanen zu machen und ihnen solchergestalt den Kitzel zu vertreiben, gegen ihren angebornen Landesherrn und ihre Obrigkeit dergleichen frevelhaftes und gottloses Beginnen weiter zu gedenken, geschweige denn selbiges wirklich vorzunehmen und auszuführen, « – Über das , von dem Reichshofrathe in dieser Sache gefällte, Urtheil beklagt sich der König bitter in einem Briefe an den Grafen Seckendorf, vom 7. April1725. (*) »Der Reichshofrath – schreibt er – hat mich aufs Neue condemnirt, daß ich alles, was ich zur Bezahlung ermeldeter Lehnsrecognition von diesen, meinen rebellischen magdeburgschen, Edelleuten habe beitreiben lasen cum omni causa ihnen zurückgeben und ferner deshalb von ihnen nichts fordern soll. Der Reichshofrath hat ferner resolvirt, daß die Könige von Polen und Schweden, samt dem oberrheinischen Kreise solche Resolution wider mich zur Execution bringen, und wenn ich mich widersetzen wollte, die schwäbischen, fränkischen und niederrheinischen Kreise dabei mit aller Macht wider mich assistieren sollten, daß also beinahe das ganze Reich in die Waffen und wirkliche Action gegen mich zu treten engagirt wird und solches um bloßer 40 Thlr. willen, die ein jeder von den widerspenstigen Vasallen von seinem Ritterpferd mir jährlich zahlen soll. – Hierdurch werde ich aber bei allen meinen Unterthanen in dem höchsten Grade prostituiert und außer allem Respect gesetzt, so dieselben für mich, als ihre Landesobrigkeit haben sollen und lasse ich den Herrn Grafen selbst urtheilen, ob man wohl härter und grausamer mit mir umgehen könnte,wenn ich den Degen wider den Kaiser selbst gezogen, auch mit seinen und den Reichsfeinden ein offenbares Complot gemacht hätte, das ganze Reich feindlich zu überfallen und über den Haufen zu werfen.« Der König achtete indessen nicht weiter auf die Aussprüche des Reichshofrathes, und da der Kaiser damals an Friedrich Wilhelm einen Bundesgenossen zu gewinnen wünschte, wurde die magdeburgische Ritterschaft ihrem Schicksale überlassen und mußte die Lehnpferdegelder zahlen.
Thank you! Well found, subdetective selenak. (As you can see, I got distracted by other FW shenanigans.) So FW does *not* always obey the Reichshofrat. I can see why he thought this one was well within his rights, and why the Emperor decided not to push it.
I have a related article, on Austria and Prussia in the Imperial Diet 1745-1763, that looks interesting, but I'm waiting on Royal Patron for the download.
how periodically Seckendorff had to go take the waters to recover a little from the hardcore job of being the most successful envoy at FW's court.
Ha! I thought that was funny too :)
This is why I maintain that if FW had wanted sex, Seckendorff would have done whatever it took to advance the cause of Seckendorff.
Would read! :)
SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
Ha! I didn't catch that, but I should have :)
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
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Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-26 09:55 pm (UTC)* The Hannovers (Guelphs) had to make permission to visit Hannover one of their conditions for accepting the throne of GB. This is ringing a bell, but I'd forgotten that. I can see why it became a point of contention.
* In 1724/1725, the Magdeburgers brought some sort of lawsuit against FW at the Imperial Court? Do you know anything more about this,
* Lol, so we already knew Seckendorff sometimes couldn't write reports the next morning because of the insane hangover from keeping up with FW the night before, and we knew he used to suck on an empty pipe at the tobacco parliament, but it was entertaining reading Oster's write-up of how "the staunch non-smoker got permission to put an empty pipe in his mouth for form's sake," and how periodically Seckendorff had to go take the waters to recover a little from the hardcore job of being the most successful envoy at FW's court. This is why I maintain that if FW had wanted sex, Seckendorff would have done whatever it took to advance the cause of Seckendorff.
Also, he lived to be 90, so I guess the lifestyle didn't ruin his health *too* much. :P
* Another minor character: Adrian Bernhard von Borcke is the father of FW2 educator Borcke.
* In July 1728, French Count Rottembourg says he has reason to believe Fritz will try running away. Now, my sources all say that he was recalled from Prussia in 1727 and stationed in Spain. So either he has contacts that are keeping him up to date, or Fritz was talking about running away even before that, or both.
* Speaking of running away...remember how on January 21, 1730 Peter got sent to Wesel and Fritz's governors got strict instructions to sleep with him every single night? And Koser said that the governor order was because FW feared Fritz trying to escape?
This is the first time I've seen evidence for that (as opposed to other types of nocturnal shenanigans) being the reason: on January 31, Oster says FW returns to Berlin, where all the envoys write reports expressing their surprise at how he's letting Fritz off with a mild scolding, in light of a recent anonymous letter FW received warning him that Fritz has escape plans. Proposed envoy reasons for this uncharacteristic behavior:
- This milder treatment is only apparent, not real.
- FW's trying the carrot instead of the stick.
- FW's trying to keep Fritz from encouraging Wilhelmine in her resistance to her prospective bridegrooms.
No dice on the last one, says Oster: Fritz is willing to suffer anything if it keeps Wilhelmine out of a miserable marriage! Oster will later quote the letter from Fritz to Wilhelmine saying, "Don't get married just to get me out of prison, I mean it."
Aaaand, Oster cites Fritz writing in 1730 to the Margrave of Schwedt that if he marries Wilhelmine, he'll "regret it sooner or later," the implication being when Fritz becomes king. This would fit well in a Mafia AU, along with "You know who we should kidnap, Heinrich?" :P
Poor younger sister Sophia Dorothea. :/
* SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
* I like the way Oster analyzes "But did event X in Wilhelmine's memoirs *really* happen?" every so often I've been wondering what's backed up with documentary evidence and what isn't.
1) FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
2) August the Strong trying to get Wilhelmine married to Weißenfels: definitely not, says Oster.
I was not aware that Weißenfels was a possible rival to the Saxon electorate due to religion, and that this might lie behind FW's interest in getting Wilhelmine married to him. That was interesting!
3) August letting his son decide he didn't want to marry Wilhelmine: seems unlikely, says Oster.
I mean, I'm sure there would have been pressure, but not everyone is FW? Even Wilhelmine got to turn down a couple candidates (at a high price) before accepting one under duress. I'm neutral on this point, pending further evidence...
* When Ferdinand was born and SD was bedridden, FW showed favor to Wilhelmine by letting her look after 4-yo Heinrich...who at the time was his favorite? What about AW?
Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war.
* Huh. So I did remember that the idea of Fritz becoming governor in Hannover until FW died was proposed as part of the marriage deal, but Oster adds that the British agreed to this, only instead of giving the governorship to Fritz, they would give it to
A WOMANAmelia!I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
* Also! G2 says that due to their youth, Fritz and Amelia would live in England at first. So I'm wrong, we *don't* need a successful escape AU in order to get Fritz at the British court while G2 and Caroline are accusing Wilhelmine of faking her pregnancy and FoW is trying to get her into a carriage to St. James in the presence of the brother who's perfectly willing to threaten her prospective husbands with vague but dire future consequences.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
* Speaking of not wishing things on Wilhelmine, Oster says Melusine expressed pity for Wilhelmine as the future wife of FoW. I suppose our speculation about her being on good terms with FoW (politically, if nothing else) wouldn't rule out realizing he's not great husband material.
(I still can't believe that one lecturer thought she was a fictional character inspired by a Fontane novel; my copy of Zeithain has a Personenregister listing who everyone is and their dates, and she's in there!
EHRENGARD MELUSINE VON DER SCHULENBURG, Herzogin von Kendal (ab 1719), * 25.12.1667 in Emden; † 10.5.1743 in Kendal House, Isleworth bei Brentford, Mätresse von Georg I., König von England)
* Oster trusts Catt, sigh. Thanks be that you read prefaces,
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-27 04:28 am (UTC)At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore. Note that in the letters from eight years old AW to FW which Cahn could read, which describe what the boys do all day, there's no mention of Mom or their oldest sister anywhere, just of Heinrich and their tutors.
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
No kidding. It really shows how soon she got fixated on that idea.
FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong. Now maybe it's just because Fritz assumes his sister would want to know more about their host, but date wise, it works with when the memoirs say the match was talked about, i.e. between FW's short lived "am gonna abdicate and live the true Christian life with my wife and daughters at Wusterhausen" idea and the Dresden visit. Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
LOL. And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too. Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
Quite. And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-27 02:44 pm (UTC)Oh, right! I'd forgotten that, but yes. Okay, that makes sense.
So unless Oster provides a different source citation for the anecdote - say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably), I'm going with my "faith in Catt strikes again" guess.
I...I can't tell. Here's the passage:
In dieser Atmosphäre konnte es sogar Wilhelmine wagen, ihrem Vater wieder unter die Augen zu treten, nachdem ihr Brief dessen Zorn bereits hatte erweichen lassen. Auch diese Szene hat der braunschweigische Gesandte am 4. März geschildert: »Wie sie nun ... hereingerufen, habe sich die älteste Prinzessin zu des Königs Füßen geworfen und selbe umfasset; da sie der König bei die Hand genommen und aufstehen heißen. Als sie aber dem König die Hand küssen wollte, war ihr solches resusiret [verwehrt], die Königin ihr darauf einen Wink gebend, war sie [Wilhelmine] dem Könige um den Hals gefallen und ihn geküsset, dabei sagend: ›Papa hat eine Ungnade auf mich geworfen, so mir länger unerträglich fällt. Ich bitte kindlich, Papa lasse mir doch die vorige Gnade wieder verspüren‹; welche Worte die Prinzessin bei Vergießung vieler Tränen hervorgebracht ... Der König habe darauf wieder versetzet: ›Es ist nun alles gut, Wilhelmine, du bist allemal meine liebe Tochter.‹« Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war. »Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzessin ihre Richtigkeit habe.«
The bit about taking care of Heinrich and Heinrich being the favorite aren't in the direct quote. But if they're from Catt and not the envoy, then the "Hieraus" is very misleading, to say the least. So the taking care of Heinrich story looks like it must come from the Brunswick envoy, even if the "he was the favorite" could possibly be an addendum from Catt.
Brunswick envoy on March 4: "Touching reconciliation between Wilhelmine and FW, everybody cries," in direct quote from the envoy report.
End direct quote.
Oster adds that FW is in such a good mood that he tells Wilhelmine, while SD is in childbed, to take care of Heinrich, who at the time was his favorite.
Resume Brunswick envoy direct quote: "From this, we can [or "we'd like to"?] conclude that the reconciliation between the King and Princess is real." [I'm taking "ihre Richtigkeit habe" to mean "has veracity," i.e. "is real," and the context to be the fact that just in the last month, the envoys have been writing home, "Is FW really being nice to Fritz, or is this just a show for our benefit?"]
So while I don't remember this anecdote from the memoirs, to answer
I also don't remember this anecdote from Catt, which is not to say it's not there, though I do remember Heinrich being the favorite, now that I'm reminded.
[ETA: Though I should add that I do remember, if my memory isn't faulty, a very similar episode earlier in the memoirs in which Wilhelmine was given charge of a different younger sibling or siblings. I will need to look that up.]
say, an ambassadorial report (by Guy Dickens or Hotham the older, presumably)
Oster actually quotes a lot from Stratemann, the Brunswick envoy, whom I didn't know about. As I said, there's a lot of good, new-to-me information in this book, and I'm glad I'm reading it!
At any event: why would Wilhelmine need to supervise Heinrich during SD's labor and ensueing lying-in anyway? That's what the staff is for. Heinrich having joined AW's household as of his fourth birthday in January, he wasn't even staying with his mother's household anymore.
Honorary position just to show that she's in favor again? I'm not sure, I was wondering this myself. And yes, I did wonder how this worked with him being in AW's household now.
Good question!
Magdeburgers: would have to look it up.
Please do, when you get the chance (I know you're traveling), and let me know where you find it, if you do. I'm interested in this sort of thing, and my admittedly cursory Google didn't turn anything up. If I have time, I might do a more thorough Googling.
On the one hand, yes, on the other there's the Fritz letter from Dresden to Wilhelmine which gives her a "hot or not?" report on August the Strong.
Oh, right! I'm so glad there are two of us: I remember the things you forget, and you remember the things I forget. :D
Maybe it wasn't as serious a possibility as she presents it in her memoirs, but what I do think is possible that Grumbkow, who was after all the FW/August liason, put it out there in some drunken rounds, and FW didn't immediately say no, which would have been enough for rumors to start and filter through to Wilhelmine and Fritz.
This makes total sense.
And Amelia/Emily comes across as way more strong willed than EC, too.
Right? I mean, most people who aren't Louise do, but seriously. Powder keg, lit fuse...disaster waiting to happen.
Mind you, her own experience with royal marriage would have been with Caroline managing G2 by pretending to worship to the ground he tread on but manipulating him into accepting all her ideas as his.
Sadly, as much as Fritz has a praise kink, I have my doubts about her chances of success.
And Fritz of Prussia would have done him the favor of always talking in French when insulting the Hannover clan, too.
*snort*
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-28 12:43 pm (UTC)More seriously, given AW gets Fritz' regiment toute suite that year and is made Colonel, and we have sunny letters to Dad which Ziebura quotes, I'm not sure what would have made FW temporarily rearrange his favourites children list. I mean, he was in a spectacularly bad mood for much of the year as well, as amply documented in the Fritzian context, so he may not have needed a reason, but it would still be very surprising, especially since Heinrich doesn't rate individual instructions to his stewards but is lumped under "the young princes" together with Ferdinand, and I'm sure that if Ziebura had found an FW remark especially about Heinrich indicating favor, she'd have quoted it, having gone through not just the published but the unpublished family correspondance at the state archive. Usually if you like a kid best, you talk about said kid. Not to mention that apparantly we have letters from Wilhelmine, from Fritz, from Charlotte and from AW to FW in the archive, all of which I've seen quoted, but not from child Heinrich. At a guess, if a letter from child!Wilhelmine survives in which she sends Dad her drawn tooth, a letter from temporary fave Heinrich would have been preserved as well, if such a letter had existed.
All this said: as long as they are babies and toddlers, the youngest children of a large family tend to be either neglected or spoiled, no? Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality. That's always assuming the Brunswick envoy did report this, as opposed to Oster getting his info from Catt.
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-28 11:46 pm (UTC)Great minds think alike! A quick glance through Oster when I was doing that write-up didn't show me what the source for Stratemann is, nor have I googled, but those items are on my to-do list.
Also, like you so often said, Mildred: the envoys are where it's at! :)
Also exactly what I was thinking when I realized we have a new envoy!
Maybe FW not getting along with his oldest kids at all in 1730 translated into liking the baby (until new baby Ferdinand was born) but not so much anymore once he grew older and developed a (suspiciously Fritz like) personality.
Maybe? And as you've pointed out, AW was Heinrich's hero, so maybe FW heard about how Heinrich just adored his new roommate and looked up to him in everything, and FW thought, "That boy's going places!" (He is, just not in the way you might think, FW.)
Magdeburgers: well, I seem to recall we have the two part FW biography in the library? I haven't braved that one yet, but it could be in there.
Oh, Förster, you're right! Hmm, I've put "Förster detective work" on my to-do list, assuming you don't get around to "Förster write-up from the royal reader" first. ;)
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 03:14 am (UTC)Update: a 300-page volume of envoy reports from Stratemann for 1728-1733 (sweeeet!) has been obtained, and will be uploaded to the library when I wake up. :)
Fingers crossed I can get volume 3 of the Lady Mary letters after receiving a duplicate copy of volume 1 today, because it was only $13, and the next cheapest copy is like $40. Awaiting word from the bookseller. Volumes 1-2 are safely in hand, and will be digitized and uploaded at some point.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 07:46 am (UTC)Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 01:54 pm (UTC)Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 03:20 am (UTC)I was not misremembering! This passage is from 1725, so the year Wilhelmine turned 16:
In the mean time I was at Berlin in great favour with the king: I passed every afternoon in conversation with him, and he used to sup in my room. He even shewed me some confidence, and often spoke of state affairs. To give me a still greater mark of distinction, he ordered me to hold a drawing-room like the queen. The governesses of my sisters were placed under my command, and had orders not to stir a step without my knowledge. I did not abuse the king’s favour. Young as I was, there was as much solidity in my conduct then, as there can be now ; and I might have superintended the education of my sisters: but I did myself justice, and clearly perceived that it did not become me; neither would I hold a drawing room. I contented myself with inviting a few ladies every day.
So I think it's possible we'll find Heinrich in her care in the Stratemann volume tomorrow.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 03:59 pm (UTC)FW allows all to enter, enter they do, he's greeted but refuses to give Wilhelmine his hand to kiss because he's still angry. SD gives Wilhelmine a signal, Wilhelmine puts her arms around FW's neck, cries and pleads for him to show her his grace again, he says "It is alright, Wilhelmine, you are my dear daughter".
In the evening, the kids all dine in the antechambre, FW keeps going between the antechambre and SD's bedroom and:
Des Abends hatten alle Königliche Kinder in der VorCammer speisen müssen, da der König zwischen der Königinn Bette und solcher Tafel beständig, unter lieblichen Anreden, spazieren gangen; und wie Se. Majestät angemercket, daß der kleinste Prinz Heinrich
geweint, und nach der Ursache gefraget, der Cron-Printz auch darauf geantwortet: daß sein Bruder von den Fischen eßen wollte, so man Ihm gegen die Nacht zu geben weigerte; hatte der König zu der ältesten Prinzeß gesaget: Wilhelmine! gib du Ihm nur ein wenig und will ich dir hiermit aufgetragen haben: daß du, so lange Mama krank ist, Sorge vor Heinrichen trägest. Hieraus nun will man schließen, daß die Versöhnung zwischen dem Könige und der Prinzeß ihre Richtigkeit habe, da sonst der König, wegen Ihr angetragener aber von Ihr refusierter sichern Mariage mit Ihr in einigen Wochen nicht sprechen wollen; woher dann auch der lieben Königinn Maladie wohl guten Theils ihren Ursprung genommen haben mag.
From the Rokoko German (he's a Braunschweig envoy and apparantly not fluent in French, he writes German): "...and when his majesty noticed that the smallest Prince, Heinrich, was crying, and asked for the cause, the Crown Prince replied that his brother had wanted to eat from the fish which had been refused to him to eat in the evening; then the King told the oldest Princess: Wilhelmine! do give him a bit, and I want to charge you to look after Heinrich as long as Mama is still so ill. From this, one wants to conclude that the reconciliation between the King and the Princess is for real, for otherwise the King due to the marriage she'd been offered and she'd had refused had himself refused to speak to her for several weeks now; which may have been the cause of the malady of the dear queen.
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-29 04:16 pm (UTC)this Ambassador has a lot about AW earlier just by name searching, FW is even supposed to have given AW Wusterhausen, and organizes special fireworks for him, AW is described as his firm favourite
Sounds like another valuable envoy for us. :)
Stratmann doesn't claim to have been present, he has it from court gossip. But he does report it minus designating Heinrich as FW's fave, so I'm still going with Oster having that from Catt.
Yep, I bet that's it.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-30 09:46 am (UTC)Fritz: Though did anyone notice my statement was the reason why the brat got his bloody fish? And did he say thank you? Ha. Gratitude and Heinrich were strangers from the beginning.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-10-02 04:37 am (UTC)HRE politics
Date: 2020-09-29 01:03 am (UTC)I was busy looking into this, and I still haven't found it, but what I did find was very interesting.
Brandenburg had possessed the expectation of certain limited rights in Limpurg since 1693...When the last count died in August 1713 without male heirs, Brandenburg-Prussia occupied the territory. This prompted the widowed countess to appeal to the Reichshofrat to secure the continued autonomous existence of the county. The Reichshofrat subsequently sent the Emperor a report, which related that 'Prussia invaded the Limpurg lands with a whole battalion, and even failed to spare the widowed countess’s castle from being occupied by soldiers.'
Citation: "Imperial law versus geopolitical interest: the Reichshofrat and the protection of smaller states in the Holy Roman Empire under Charles VI (1711-40)", Patrick Milton, a heavily footnoted academic paper from 2015 with primary source citations (including envoy reports), available here.
ignoring legal female heir
ignoring legal female heir
The difference being that FW recognized imperial authority and grudgingly backed down when the Reichshofrat told him to. I guess he *didn't* start a war of aggression over it.
But yeeeeeah. Between this and FW's decision to go to war to get Swedish Pomerania in 1715, I'm at least half side-eyeing that political testament.
ETA: This table looks so much better in preview. Sigh.
Re: HRE politics
Date: 2020-09-29 08:38 am (UTC)Förster then says that FW ignored the court, and since the Emperor at this point wanted him as an ally he let it pass and let the Magdeburg nobility fend for themselves, which means they caved and paid their horsetaxes. BTW, looking for this, I also came across Förster, writing in 1832, believing in the evil Catholic conspiracy to marry Fritz to MT (or her sister), which our hero escaped due to his and FW's integrity.
(Gr. = Groschen. Pf: Pfennige. Th. = Taler.)
In dem Herzogthume Magdeburg wurde die Contribution aus einer Menge verschiedener Auflagen und Steuern erhoben. 1) Von dem Scheffel Aussaat wurden nach der verschiedenen Güte des Bodens gezahlt: 10 Pf., 7 Pf., 5 Pf, 2 Pf.
2) Giebel- und Häuſerschoß nach der Größe der Bauernhöfe, Kossäthen-Tagelöhnerhäuſer monatlich 16 Gr., 12 Gr., 8 Gr.,
6 Gr. und 4 Gr. 3) Von Gärten-, Wiesen-, Holz-, Mast-, Fischerei-, Hopfen-, Rohr-, Weinbergs-, Steinbruchs-, Zehnten-, Brau-, Salz- c. Nutzung von jedem gewonnenen Thaler 1 Gr. zur Contribution. 4) Viehsteuer: von einem Pferde jährlich im guten Lande 16 Gr., im Sandlande 8 Gr., von jedem Ochsen, jeder Kuh 6 Gr., jedem Rinde 2 Gr., jedem Schafe 1 Gr. 5) Tranksteuer oder Consumtions-Accise auf dem Lande, von jedem Faß inländischen Bier 12 Gr., von dem aus anderen königlichen Provinzen 1 Thaler. 6 Gr., von ausländischem 2 Thaler.
Auf die Hufen geschlagen betrug die Contribution hier 16 Thaler. 21 Gr. 5 Pf, für die Hufe.
Gegen die Einführung der Lehnpferdegelder sträubte sich die magdeburgische Ritterschaft, und da der König mit Gewalt einschritt und Execution anordnete, verklagten ihn die Betheiligten bei dem Reichshofrathe in Wien. Dieser erkannte zu Gunsten der Edelleute, und der Kaiser drohte sogar, gegen den König die Reichs-Execution anzuordnen, im Fall er sich nicht dem Ausspruch des Reichshofraths fügen würde. Dieser Prozeß zog sich sehr in die Länge und machte dem Könige vielen Verdruß. In der Instruktion für das General-Directorium vom 20. December 1722 befiehlt er daher dem königlichen Commissariat in Magdeburg: »diesen renitirenden Edelleuten allerhand Chicanen zu machen und ihnen solchergestalt den Kitzel zu vertreiben, gegen ihren angebornen Landesherrn und ihre Obrigkeit dergleichen frevelhaftes und gottloses Beginnen weiter zu gedenken, geschweige denn selbiges wirklich vorzunehmen und auszuführen, « – Über das , von dem Reichshofrathe in dieser Sache gefällte, Urtheil beklagt sich der König bitter in einem Briefe an den Grafen Seckendorf, vom 7. April1725. (*) »Der Reichshofrath – schreibt er – hat mich aufs Neue condemnirt, daß ich alles, was ich zur Bezahlung ermeldeter Lehnsrecognition von diesen, meinen rebellischen magdeburgschen, Edelleuten habe beitreiben lasen cum omni causa ihnen zurückgeben und ferner deshalb von ihnen nichts fordern soll. Der Reichshofrath hat ferner resolvirt, daß die Könige von Polen und Schweden, samt dem oberrheinischen Kreise solche Resolution wider mich zur Execution bringen, und wenn ich mich widersetzen wollte, die schwäbischen, fränkischen und niederrheinischen Kreise dabei mit aller Macht wider mich assistieren sollten, daß also beinahe das ganze Reich in die Waffen und wirkliche Action gegen mich zu treten engagirt wird und solches um bloßer 40 Thlr. willen, die ein jeder von den widerspenstigen Vasallen von seinem Ritterpferd mir jährlich zahlen soll. – Hierdurch werde ich aber bei allen meinen Unterthanen in dem höchsten Grade prostituiert und
außer allem Respect gesetzt, so dieselben für mich, als ihre Landesobrigkeit haben sollen und lasse ich den Herrn Grafen selbst urtheilen, ob man wohl härter und grausamer mit mir umgehen könnte,wenn ich den Degen wider den Kaiser selbst gezogen, auch mit seinen und den Reichsfeinden ein offenbares Complot gemacht hätte, das ganze Reich feindlich zu überfallen und über den Haufen zu werfen.« Der König achtete indessen nicht weiter auf die Aussprüche des Reichshofrathes, und da der Kaiser damals an Friedrich Wilhelm einen Bundesgenossen zu gewinnen wünschte, wurde die magdeburgische Ritterschaft ihrem Schicksale überlassen und mußte die Lehnpferdegelder zahlen.
Re: HRE politics
Date: 2020-09-29 02:18 pm (UTC)I have a related article, on Austria and Prussia in the Imperial Diet 1745-1763, that looks interesting, but I'm waiting on Royal Patron for the download.
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-10-02 04:33 am (UTC)Ha! I thought that was funny too :)
This is why I maintain that if FW had wanted sex, Seckendorff would have done whatever it took to advance the cause of Seckendorff.
Would read! :)
SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
Ha! I didn't catch that, but I should have :)
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
Would definitely read! :D