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cahnSo for anyone who is reading this and would like to learn more about Frederick the Great and his contemporaries, but who doesn't want to wade through 500k (600k?) words worth of comments and an increasingly sprawling comment section:
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We now have a community,
rheinsberg, that has quite a lot of the interesting historical content (and more coming regularly), organized nicely with lots of lovely tags so if there's any subject you are interested in it is easy to find :D
Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-01-27 03:50 am (UTC)you are my witness to what I have done for Katte. You know: I did offer my life not once but a thousand times to save his.
"you are my witness"
"not once but a thousand times"
How is Grumbkow a witness? Even allowing for hyperbole, how did Fritz have the opportunity to offer his life on more than one occasion? Every single version of the story we have, he finds out about Katte's execution on the same morning it happened, and though I'm sure he repeatedly begged for Katte's life on that occasion, the only witnesses reported were Münchow and whoever was with him. That isn't the kind of thing I would describe as "not once," but rather "only once, in the heat of the moment, even if in several sentences, one right after another."
But given what we've talked about with Catt, I now think *none* of these stories comes from Fritz's mouth, and even if he talked to Wilhelmine, she obviously has a very skewed picture of what happened. So is the timing way off?
There were only a few days between Katte's sentence and his execution. Five? Okay, FW's decision is dated November 1, execution is 7:45 am November 6. Less than five days. There wasn't a lot of time for Fritz to offer his life more than once. But did he find out before Katte showed up? Did he have time to maybe write a letter? That Grumbkow saw?
Or did he start bargaining before there was a death sentence? It didn't seem like he thought there was that much danger of death, in his letters to Wilhelmine, but maybe there was some bravado.
Was Grumbkow at Küstrin on November 6? I have unreliable secondary sources saying he showed up later in November, when Fritz was pardoned, but I've seen no one say he was there that early in the month.
Or is Fritz just bluffing Grumbkow and rewriting history in hopes Grumbkow goes along with it?
What's going on here?
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-01-27 08:56 am (UTC)The most likely explanation, though also the most boring one, so setting it aside by now. Mind you, pretty much the sole reason not to assume this is happening is that Fritz isn't King yet. If he was, I'd simply assume he's betting on the fact that no one, certainly not experienced courtier Grumbkow, would tell the King "what are you talking about, this never happened!"
But he's still Crown Prince, and Grumbkow might be wishing to build up good will with the future monarch, but Grumbkow is still FW's man first and foremost, and definitely not above showing FW a Fritzian letter if he'd deem it useful. Hence also all the "what kind of son would I be if I would pal around with someone Dad disapproves of ?!?"
So, assuming Fritz isn't entirely inventing things for rethorical purposes. If Grumbkow had been in Küstrin before or during Katte's execution, people would have noticed and remembered. He was so high ranking in FW's government that there was no way no one would later have mentioned him being there. However: as I recall Der Thronfolger gave FW and Fritz two confrontations post flight attempt and pre Fritz being sent to Küstrin, one where FW doesn't know yet Katte was involved, the other when where he did and it makes him additionally furious. All my Fritz bios are back at the library, so you tell me - isn't it true that they met more than once pre Küstrin? And that the seoond one was also when FW tried to intimidate Fritz into giving up his place in the succession and Fritz went "sure, if you declare me a bastard and my mother a whore" in response (getting himself choked as per "Der Thronfolger")? Because if the script didn't entirely make up the fact FW already knew about Katte's involvement during the second confrontation and brought that up to Fritz, there's a tiny room for Fritz to have offered his life for Katte's.
Then again - that "if you declare me to be a bastard" sounds like something I recall from books, and it also sounds more like Fritz full of bravado but certain nothing worse than prison will happen to either of them, not like Fritz aware Katte could and would die for this and ready to offer his life.
Leaving aside actual confrontations; there is the possibility of letters written between November 1 and November 6 which don't exist anymore, possibly due to Fritz having gotten his hand on the entire Katte file and burned some items, as per Catt. But that would assume that Fritz knew about the sentence, when all the descriptions have him unaware Katte would die until the very morning it happened. But even if that wasn't the case and Fritz removed all the relevant pleading letters later, I think some of the other people, Münchow, Pastor Müller, whose testimonies we have independent from Fritz, would have mentioned it.
So unless Fritz is simply rewriting history, which, see above, most likely and easiest explanation, my money is on something that might have happened pre Küstrin. Not least because of the phrasing "I have never denied Katte". (Like Peter denied Jesus, son of Calvinist FW and thus schooled in the bible?) Perhaps FW offered him the out of blaming Katte wholesale for the desertion, the flight plan, everything, early on, and Fritz didn't. I know FW asked him about who seduced whom later, post Katte's death, and that would be what "I have never denied him" relates to, and it's all mixed up in Fritz' mind. But I'm just suggesting the possibility it might have happened before, and Fritz refused to blame Katte, and that is in this letter alluded to and, combined with offering his life on the day of execution, hyperboled into "offered my life a thousand times".
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-01-27 10:54 pm (UTC)Agree, but that doesn't mean your or I would remember it off the tops of our heads. There's certainly no guarantee I would.
However: as I recall Der Thronfolger gave FW and Fritz two confrontations post flight attempt and pre Fritz being sent to Küstrin, one where FW doesn't know yet Katte was involved, the other when where he did and it makes him additionally furious. All my Fritz bios are back at the library, so you tell me - isn't it true that they met more than once pre Küstrin?
Yes, that sounds correct to me: one before (August 5/6, immediately after the failed escape attempt, near Mannheim) and one after Keith's desertion was discovered (August 11 in Wesel). But according to the dates I have, FW hadn't even ordered Katte arrested at that point (August 16th), much less had him arrested (August 27th), so I don't think Fritz would be offering up his life yet. Unless Kloosterhuis gives different dates?
Because if the script didn't entirely make up the fact FW already knew about Katte's involvement during the second confrontation and brought that up to Fritz, there's a tiny room for Fritz to have offered his life for Katte's.
Agree, but my unreliable modern sources all agree that Fritz implicated Katte during his first questioning. (You can check the Youth Documents in the library, but I didn't see Katte's name in skimming the interrogation.) It's possible that later he realized that was a mistake, and that Katte's life was in danger, but I don't see any occasions on which he and FW met in person after the 11th, or at least it's not in my highly unreliable secondary sources. So any offer from Fritz to FW after Katte was implicated would have to have been in a letter that we don't know about.
it also sounds more like Fritz full of bravado but certain nothing worse than prison will happen to either of them, not like Fritz aware Katte could and would die for this and ready to offer his life.
All of my secondary sources match this, and some even comment on it: Fritz's communications from before November 6 are full of bravado and a conviction that nothing worse than imprisonment will happen. That's why I would be so surprised if he was offering his life at that stage. Katte hadn't even been condemned yet, though he was in prison.
I also just have a hard time seeing Fritz with his very strong survival instincts and sense of self-interest offering his life in a non-emergency situation where nobody's actually been condemned yet.
possibly due to Fritz having gotten his hand on the entire Katte file and burned some items, as per Catt
I thought of that, but I immediately dismissed it, thinking, that's the one letter he would keep! The one that shows him in a really good light. Unless he said other things in that letter that he's now ashamed of...
But that would assume that Fritz knew about the sentence, when all the descriptions have him unaware Katte would die until the very morning it happened.
Yes, that's what this letter made me suddenly question, especially now that I have no reason to believe Catt's description comes from Fritz. Two of those sources (W and T) have Katte arriving the morning of the 6th and going straight from the coach to the (non-existent) scaffold, so I don't trust them on timing at all. P actually gets that part right (Katte spent the night in prayers), which is interesting.
At any rate, if Fritz actually found out when Katte arrived at Küstrin, i.e. on the afternoon of the 5th, and not when he walked past his window on the morning of the 6th, that would give time for "a thousand times" and a letter, and I wouldn't trust W/P/T/C/V to get it right, or the firsthand Katte-POV accounts to report it.
I think some of the other people, Münchow, Pastor Müller, whose testimonies we have independent from Fritz, would have mentioned it.
Also thought of that, but Münchow Jr's age could be measured in the single digits, we don't have the testimony of Münchow Sr., who was in the room with Fritz, and both Major Schack and Besser, whom Fontane reports, are telling a very Katte-centric story that follows him and report nothing about what went on inside Fritz's room that couldn't be seen by Katte (the kiss throwing, the last words--which we still don't know where Fontane got those from). None of them report any fainting or offers for Katte's life, which our other sources do. And Münchow Jr. doesn't even know about the order FW gave to make Fritz watch and outright denies it, so I seriously doubt he knows about any letters Fritz might have written.
Would that we had Münchow Sr.'s testimony, because he actually interacted the most with Fritz. I know Fontane was interested in Katte's tragedy, but I want to know more about where Fontane got his sources, whether they're still extant, and if there are or were other letters we don't already know about, that would tell us more about Fritz's POV. Because, yes, Fontane, we all focus excessively on his perspective, blah blah, I don't disagree, but we do so without a single reliable account! There's reason to revisit this!
(I also still am deeply curious who leaked Katte's last letters for that pamphlet Wilhelmine was drawing on, but I guess we'll never know.)
Not least because of the phrasing "I have never denied Katte". (Like Peter denied Jesus, son of Calvinist FW and thus schooled in the bible?)
Yes, this is very true. It does sound biblical. I had been wondering, though, if maybe he meant *after* Katte's death, i.e. when Katte was a criminal who had been beheaded for desertion, and you seem to be getting at the same thing just below.
Perhaps FW offered him the out of blaming Katte wholesale for the desertion, the flight plan, everything, early on, and Fritz didn't.
Now THAT'S interesting. Maybe that's what FW wanted to hear, and when Fritz insisted that no, *he* wanted to run away because he hated life under FW so much, that's when FW lost it and decided his son needed to be broken.
It seems unlikely? If only because FW seems to have assumed the worst of Fritz at all times. But then again, we do have that quote from a few years earlier (I think) about other people filling young Fritz's head with ideas that led him to oppose FW. So maybe.
I know FW asked him about who seduced whom later, post Katte's death, and that would be what "I have never denied him" relates to, and it's all mixed up in Fritz' mind.
Yes, I was thinking that Fritz might have meant that he stood by Katte after his death, and you're right that this would be the perfect example. He might have had the "I seduced/corrupted Katte" in mind, and it makes perfect sense to combine that with offering his life.
Memory is also not highly reliable around trauma anyway. It's probably asking too much to get a just-the-facts account out of Fritz on this topic.
It's also worth mentioning that if my sources are correct that Fritz implicated Katte (and others, but none of them died) during his initial questioning, then even if he doesn't know about the misaddressed letter going through the cousin, he's got to be carrying the guilt for that as well, and thus can be expected to insist even harder that he never ever betrayed Katte, no, and always stood by him.
So I like your idea that he's thinking that the way he refused to put the blame on anyone else as the prime mover of the plan (Katte wouldn't even need to have been named specifically, nor would it necessarily have had to have been an explicit bargain, just an option that Fritz refused to take when being asked whose idea it was), both before and after Katte's death, plus the way he offered his life on November 6, together count as "I offered my life for his a thousand times." It's actually quite plausible that Fritz would interpret "refused to blame him for my idea" as "offered my life," which is not all that far from the truth, either.
The September 16 interrogation of Fritz starts on page 50 of the youth documents, if you want to check it out, but this volume doesn't seem to have the earlier interrogations, the one where Fritz supposedly implicated all his accomplices. Those documents may be in Hinrichs' Der Kronprinzenprozess, but I don't have access to an online copy of that. (I'm also not sure if it's any more reliable than Der Katte-Prozess, which you read and reported as a dud.)
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-02 10:53 pm (UTC)"The peril of my life does not disturb me. Only I should regret that some officers, having knowledge of the thing, would be exposed to danger, when they have not committed a fault, but have simply allowed themselves to be inveigled into it by me. If the king promises pardon for them, I will admit all frankly. If not, they can cut off my head before I betray anybody."
And then Lavisse reports, not in direct discourse, Fritz mentioning Katte's name unsolicited. I had seen this before, but not from a primary source, so I didn't know whether to trust it.
But now we have a source is "Report of Seckendorff to the Emperor, August 14, 1730, Förster, III, pp. 1 et seq." And Lavisse adds, "This report must be consulted for the whole history of the attempt at escape."
It's Förster again!...Found it. Okay, yes, there is a report from Seckendorff, and it contains Fritz saying these things, although Lavisse putting it in first person direct discourse is just him livening up the narrative.
Okay, we have Fritz offering his life for Katte et al. (but also naming him as a conspirator) in August! And also saying that he doesn't mind dying, but would mind very much if anything happened to his friends. And saying that he hopes Katte can be saved.
It's like the court martial recommending FW consider the effect of killing Katte on Fritz: hurting Fritz is a feature, not a bug. Fritz, don't tell your father how to get to you! Ugh.
Interesting, it looks like volume 3 has a bunch of primary sources pertaining to volumes 1 and 2.
OMG, there's correspondence from May 1731, pertaining to the possibility of Fritz converting to Catholicism for the Austrian marriage project! Seckendorff and Eugene! Okay, this looks cool. It's going in the library. This part's in volume 3, pp. 28 ff., in German. Seckendorff's report on the escape attempt, also in German, opens the report. Also, I have to say, with all this practice, it's moderately easier for me to skim this font than it used to be. ;)
All right, I thought I was going to have to email our royal patron, but no, I have now found all three volumes and they're now in the library. Volume 3 has the worst scan job ever, but it's better than nothing.
I have to say, Lavisse has his shortcomings, but he keeps leading me to primary sources! That so far say what he says they say, no less.
Oh, hah, one page later in Lavisse: "The next day he was examined by Colonel Derschau, upon the questions prepared by the king." Look at how much more we know than we used to.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-03 01:11 am (UTC)1.) Fritz doesn‘t say he hopes Katte can be saved but that he hopes Katte HAS SAVED HIMSELF („sich salvieret hat“), and
2.) Seckendorff himself in his concluding paragraph says re: Keith & Katte: „Where (Fritz) has gotten the money from which he has entrusted to Keith and Katte, he has not wanted to admit, he only says this much, that he sold the diamonds from the Polish medal given to him by the King of Poland two years ago, and supposedly is most distressed at the thought that Keith and Katte could be arrested. Of the former one doesn‘t know where he is, but the later has taken the road to Nimwegen, and Colonel du Moulin has been sent after him and is supposed to discover him and arrest him.“.
Meaning: looks like Fritz assumes that Katte, like Peter, has already gotten the hell out of there as per the original plan. And Seckendorff naturally thinks Katte has left, too, and will have to be pursued by du Moulin (Müller?). (Nimwegen is the German name for the Dutch town Nijmegen.) No one seems to think Katte is still in Berlin waiting to be arrested.
Which leaves us with the much debated question as to why Katte didn‘t leave.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-03 03:34 am (UTC)So basically, it's like Hans Heinrich's letter to his brother Heinrich Christoph: everyone hoping that boy has gotten himself out of there.
KAAATTTEEEE!
Which leaves us with the much debated question as to why Katte didn‘t leave.
2) Yeah. I've seen *so* many reasons given for why he didn't. All I can figure is that there were many reasons for staying, and many reasons for going, and he didn't make up his mind to go in time. Which reasons were foremost in his mind, I do not know (and I look askance at anyone who claims to, as numerous people positively assert one reason or another).
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-03 07:07 am (UTC)If Seckendorff knows, Grumbkow knows, so Fritz has reason to write to Grumbkow „you know how I tried“ etc. Mind you, taunting the comission (if he did and that wasn’t just FW’s impression, remember, Seckendorff is repeating to Eugene what he’s learned from FW) and simultanously asking for Katte‘s life is a better surefire method to get Katte killed, if you ask me...
In the official report to the Emperor, Seckendorff has an early October entry where he says FW told him that he, FW, would have been willing to deal with the whole thing quietly and show fatherly mercy provided Fritz had made a full confession and shown proper repentance after the escape attempt, BUT the fact that foreign powers were involved, i.e. Saxony and England, makes it necessary for him to have war tribunals and make examples.
Seckendorff also advises the Emperor - after relating SD asked for imperial intercession on behalf of her son - to NOT make a plea for mercy (because FW is pissed off enough ); since MT‘s Dad did actually petition for mercy anyway, seems he did not listen, but I‘m not surprised Fritz didn‘t feel obliged to Seckendorff despite all that Austrian money later.
Seckendorff is the first person to refer to Wilhelmine as „The Crown Princess“ in those 1730 dispatches. I‘ve never seen a source use that title for anyone but EC later, and then, during Fritz‘ reign, for Louise, though it‘s more „the Princess of Prussia“, as AW tends to be mostly „the Prince of Prussia“ and not „The Crown Prince“. But Seckendorff writes „The Crown Princess“ not once but several times (as in „The Queen and the Crown Princess“ are afraid the money and letters found with Katte are from them.
Katte staying: yeah. I mean, fiction can‘t do footnotes, so „Der Thronfolger“ had him stay as a gambit to make Fritz give up his plan (since in this version Fritz knows he‘s still in Berlin), and in my own „Fiat Justicia“, I let him stay to save Wilhelmine, but then that‘s meant to be an AU anyway.
ETA: oh, and Seckendorff also writes to Vienna that when Katte gets executed, „the Queen does not pray for him“.
Son of ETA: also wanted to mention that Seckendorff reports Katte to have been executed "under the Crown Prince's window" while he was forced to watch. Again, his main source is FW himself, so I bet Münchow & Lepel left FW with that impression due to careful wording of their report.
And, something I already knew because Ziebura has quoted in her AW biography, Seckendorff also reports on October 9th that FW tries to make Fritz renounce his place in the succession, which Fritz, as we all know, refuses to do, which makes FW even more furious. (It's the same report which also includes Seckendorff advising the Emperor against interceding on Fritz' behalf as requested by SD.) Fritz will offer it, along with everything else, when Katte is about to be executed, but not for the first time it does make me conclude Fritz not only did not really expect anything worse than prison - not that prison, FW style, isn't awful, - for himself and for Katte, but that he is seriously set on ruling one day this early on. Flight attempt or not.
Lastly, Seckendorff reports on November 14th that Fritz will be set free (of the cell, though not of Küstrin) and will get a household again, consisting of "a Prussian nobleman named von Wolden and two Cavaliers, Rowedel and Nazmer, as well as two pages and four footmen for which a "splendid uniform" is already being made.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-04 01:02 am (UTC)Exactly what I was thinking.
it does make me conclude Fritz not only did not really expect anything worse than prison - not that prison, FW style, isn't awful, - for himself and for Katte
Yeah, every summary I had seen of the lead-up to November 6 has Fritz unhappy but defiant in a way that makes it seem like he wasn't too worried about making things worse. Which is why I was surprised that he was offering his own head so early, but here we have it, documentary evidence! I do think it was largely rhetorical at this date, in that he wasn't expecting them to take him up on the offer literally. But he did want Katte saved and did refuse to blame him.
Mind you, taunting the comission (if he did and that wasn’t just FW’s impression, remember, Seckendorff is repeating to Eugene what he’s learned from FW) and simultanously asking for Katte‘s life is a better surefire method to get Katte killed, if you ask me...
Your caveat about FW as the source is noted, but yeah. I don't blame him for Katte's death, but he was definitely thinking emotionally throughout this whole thing, and I'm not surprised that afterward, he felt the need to insist that he wasn't responsible for Katte's death, to drown out the little voice that must have been telling him about all the things he could have done differently.
Katte staying: yeah. I mean, fiction can‘t do footnotes, so „Der Thronfolger“ had him stay as a gambit to make Fritz give up his plan (since in this version Fritz knows he‘s still in Berlin), and in my own „Fiat Justicia“, I let him stay to save Wilhelmine, but then that‘s meant to be an AU anyway.
Oh, sure, fiction absolutely has to pick something! It's the job of fiction to tell a story. It's categorically asserting in nonfiction that such-and-such was the reason that I side-eye.
I would say it comes down the difference between "the character Katte in my story didn't flee because X," which is called characterization, and "the historical figure Katte didn't flee because X," when X is unknowable. And of course, which reason one chooses for Katte's failure to flee in time to save his life has major implications for characterization. Which is one reason it's so objectionable to pick one in nonfiction and assert it as truth without evidence.
Besides, there's a difference between why he didn't desert per the original escape plan, and why he didn't flee in time when he knew his arrest was imminent. I think the first part is less controversial: he couldn't get leave, it would have been dangerous and complicated, and he was waiting for either a better opportunity to arise, or the whole thing to blow over. But once Fritz was arrested, Peter had fled, and FW had given the order for Katte's arrest, that's when Natzmer gave Katte permission to leave Berlin and gave him a several hour head start, and no one knows why Katte was still there to be arrested. And that's when people start asserting they know why and I side-eye them.
"a Prussian nobleman named von Wolden and two Cavaliers, Rowedel and Nazmer, as well as two pages and four footmen for which a "splendid uniform" is already being made.
Useful little details, thank you!
And, something I already knew because Ziebura has quoted in her AW biography, Seckendorff also reports on October 9th that FW tries to make Fritz renounce his place in the succession, which Fritz, as we all know, refuses to do, which makes FW even more furious.
If you want to see the protocol containing (at least as selection of?) the questions and answers to the original interrogation, from September 16, if it's not in Förster, it's in YouthDocuments in the library, starting on page 50. The question and reply where Fritz refuses to give up the succession are on page 53.
ETA: oh, and Seckendorff also writes to Vienna that when Katte gets executed, „the Queen does not pray for him“.
You mean pray for his soul after he's been beheaded?
Son of ETA: also wanted to mention that Seckendorff reports Katte to have been executed "under the Crown Prince's window" while he was forced to watch. Again, his main source is FW himself, so I bet Münchow & Lepel left FW with that impression due to careful wording of their report.
I just bet they did!
I‘m not surprised Fritz didn‘t feel obliged to Seckendorff despite all that Austrian money later.
Ha, yes, the editor who wrote the preface to one of the English translations of Wilhelmine's memoirs included this gem: "The reader of the Margravine's autobiography will probably feel that when Seckendorff saved Frederick's life the account between them was about even, and that Frederick might proceed to new injuries with a clear conscience."
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-04 10:37 am (UTC)Same here! Hence my quick disillusionment with Burgdorf the GAY GAY GAY biographer.
that's when Natzmer gave Katte permission to leave Berlin and gave him a several hour head start
Presumably the same guy who spelled "Nazmer" is mentioned as a cavalier in Fritz' new household in Küstrin and who will write reports on him to the King? Or more likely a younger relation, if Natzmer the headstart giver was Katte's superior?
You mean pray for his soul after he's been beheaded?
Yes, that's how I understand Seckendorff's remark.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-05 04:51 am (UTC)You mean in general he asserted unknowable things, or did he have a specific explanation for Katte's failure to avoid getting arrested?
Presumably the same guy who spelled "Nazmer" is mentioned as a cavalier in Fritz' new household in Küstrin and who will write reports on him to the King? Or more likely a younger relation, if Natzmer the headstart giver was Katte's superior?
Yes, Natzmer is a field marshal at this point, has better things to do than live with Fritz. ;) MacDonogh to the rescue: the Natzmer who arrested Katte and helped convert FW to Pietism (apparently a brand that wasn't incompatible with passive resistance to authority) is Dubislav Gneomar. Fritz's cavalier is Karl Dubislav, whom Wikipedia tells me is the son of the former.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-05 01:47 pm (UTC)The former, with the "never ever had Fritz the slightest sexual contact to a woman, he and Orzelska were platonic pen pals" and the "Wilhelmine wanted Katte for herself!" being the most glaring examples I recall.
Re: Natzmer(s) - thank you for detecting again! Incidentally, I do wonder how those assignments were pitched. "Surprise! You get to be cavalier to the Crown Prince! Could mean closeness to the future King, could also mean losing your head if you get too close, and did I mention, he's currently residing as a sort of prisoner in Küstrin? Off to the Polish border, and whatever you do, keep away from flutes of any kinds!"
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-06 02:07 am (UTC)whatever you do, keep away from flutes of any kinds!"
Lol. Did you say there were multiple "no flutes" letters?
FW: Look, guys. I know you're letting smuggled flutes in. I SAID, no flutes! No handsome flutists, either.
Hille: Easy for you to say. You're not the one who has to listen to the poetry!
You get to be cavalier to the Crown Prince!
I've been meaning to ask, what is the job description of a "cavalier" in this context? Because Peter Keith's son was one for about a week to Amalia (iirc), and I keep seeing it crop up here and there.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-05 06:58 am (UTC)I agree, and at this date, I would guess we're in the proto-control freak stages. By which I mean, he's not yet at the point where he wants to be king so he can micromanage everything. But he's reached the point where he's internalized that other people having power over him is BAD BAD BAD, and the last thing he wants is a brother with power over him who might treat him like Dad. Especially if little bro is Dad's favorite.
He's supposed to have said to Robert Keith, during the escape attempt, that once he got away, he was never coming back. Do I think that means he definitely wouldn't have? Of course not, he might well have, especially if he could get favorable terms. But I wouldn't be surprised if 18-yo Fritz could imagine life in exile as tolerable, but life in Prussia under a Prussian king would not be.
I think, as time went on, his fear of other people having even the tiniest amount of control expanded, to the point where he had to micromanage everything and keep his brothers and nephews well away from power, just to feel safe. But in these early days, he's only a proto-control freak: no one gets power over *him*, but he doesn't necessarily need power over everyone and everything yet.
Remember when I said Fritz learned that there are kind people and there are people in power, and if you want to be safe, you have to be in power, because people may love you but they can't protect you? I think that's why he won't give up the succession until it's Katte's life on the line. Whom he's also willing to give up his life for. And giving up the succession to let AW have power over him probably feels nearly equally dangerous.
It's also worth mentioning that if I'm right, that if in August and September he's offering his life for Katte because he thinks they *won't* take him up on it, the reason he avoids offering the succession might be because that he thinks they might.
Re: Grumbkow and Katte
Date: 2020-02-07 10:33 pm (UTC)He also dates it to November 4! That makes me wonder about his other dates.