cahn

All Yuletide requests are out!

Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!

-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)

Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!

-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French

-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...

Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Every time you post an update from the Hohenzollerns, I have to read it multiple times before I can believe it.

Fritz called Heinrich his other self??!!* Heinrich picked back up a correspondence with him because he needed someone to bicker with?? Heinrich moved to Wusterhausen in 1799 so he could forget about the last twelve years??!!

??!!!???!!!???!!!

Woooow, this just keeps getting better. I guess you need your other-self hateship in your life so you can have someone who will at least argue back. FW2 really *was* committed to doing things differently. :P I mean, I think a key part of the whole Fritz/Voltaire addiction was the fact that both of them would at least argue back.

* This just goes to show that having self-awareness does not equal knowing what to do about it, which is consistent with my experiences with other highly intelligent, self-aware people with severe trauma, even in the twenty-first century.

Also, if the correspondence resumption was post Bavarian Succession, then Voltaire had recently died, and Fritz must have been feeling a void where there was once a hateship. :P More seriously, Maria Antonia died around this time as well, and he cut off Catt, and I can imagine he was desperate for someone to talk to as well.

FW2: Without the most prominent reminder of the old regime I can imagine. I mean, you were his...

Heinrich: Don't say it.

FW2: Other self.

Ferdiand: *counts* Twelve years? Counting back from March 1799? You mean, when...

Heinrich: Don't you dare.

OMG, this is Fritz/Voltaire levels of hateshipping, wow. This may even put them to shame. Wow wow wow.

Heinrich: YES GOD YES. You bastard.

I may have choked on my drink here. You seriously do the best write-ups.

Heinrich: Nephew, please read my memos for once, "he'll make our Fritz look like an amateur"!

He kinda did, yeah. I can't remember if I've mentioned that the epic rap battle perfectly and concisely encapsulates the fact that Alexander, like Napoleon, was a specialist, while Fritz was a polymath.

I brought foes to their knees in Phoenicia/breezed through Gaza to Giza/had the Balkans, Persia, Syria, Iraq, and Pakistan in my expansion pack

I've got creative talents and battle malice/hard as steel on the field, genteel in the palace

Silesia. He conquered Silesia. He couldn't even hold onto Bohemia or Saxony. But he did keep it all from falling apart at his death. And I think everyone agrees his poetry was mediocre, his flute-playing excellent on slower tempos but wobblier on faster tempos, his compositions decent, and so on, such that he wasn't the best at any one thing, but he was good enough at a wide range of things to make people sit up and pay attention. Algarotti and I can relate, Fritz. *hugs*

*German drama starring one Frederick the Great, with the actor personally coached by Tauentzien in Fritz mannerisms and voice intonation*: Ensues
Heinrich: *sits frozen in his seat for the rest of the play, but does not run out*

What. Why would you do that to your boyfriend? Do you know him at ALL? I'm with Lehndorff, Heinrich, you need better boyfriends. I'm glad the setting sun cast a final beam of warming light on you, because seriously. Hohenzollern relationships are fucked up. Other self indeed.

She also had a better relationship with Fritz than she does in Mein name ist Bach

Oh, thank goodness. I mean, I knew it wasn't perfect, but that movie had me worried about them.

He'd methodically organized his own funeral and tomb, and unlike Fritze's, his last instructions were obeyed.

Oh, good. Is that like a first in this family? (ETA: rhetorical question)

Edited Date: 2019-12-03 12:43 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

Oh, thank goodness. I mean, I knew it wasn't perfect, but that movie had me worried about them.

Because this has nothing to do with Heinrich, but is a story of its own, I'm replying to it separately. Aside from the fact Amalie - who had some serious musical skills in various instruments and, like Big Brother and Big Sister, composed - did have a certified (musical) passion for all things Bach (Johann Sebastian and his sons), there is one other reason (I guess) why the scriptwriter included her the way he didi, one big question mark hanging around the relationship of the younger Amalie and Fritz, and that's the Mysterious Trenck Affair (tm).

Important to know apart in this very confusing tale:

Friedrich von der Trenck (aka Prussian Trenck): future bestselling memoir writer, definitely an influence on Dumas (in Count of Monte Christo) and Mark Twain (in Tom Sawyer & Huckleberry Finn) who name check him both; this is a subtle literary pop quiz for you, as it'll make you guess what Prussian Trenck will be most famous for

Franz von der Trenck (aka Austrian Trenck): his cousin, famous for his temper, derring-do, courageous soldiering but sadly also cruelty (both towards civilians and his own men) which will be his doom

Prussian Trenck: Let me give you a short version of my famously bestselling three volume memoirs, currently at Gutenberg in a one volume edition in German at least; the editor dares to say my Rokoko feelings and rants are too much for the modern reader, so nothing was lost when severely cutting them down, and a decent adventure novel gained. Bah.

Anyway: I was born to a noble Prussian family with Austrian relations. In 1740, when Fritz came on the throne, I joined his army. By 1744, I was his batman. He totally had a really warm fatherly regard for me -

(Self: When he was 32? If you say so...)

- and despite the later turn of events, I spent the first bit of my memoirs raving about how charismatic Fritz was, how much it rocked serving under him. When his sister Ulrike got married, I was part of the festivities, and there I met a An Unmarried Lady Of The Highest Rank whom I, being a gentleman, will not identify by name until volume 3 gets published, but we're talking Highest Family here, wink, nudge. I scored! So basically, life was sweet. Then the Second Silesian War started. Totally not the fault of Fritz this time. I swear, he only wanted to protect the poor, helpless Prince Elector of Bavaria, who had cruelly lost his dukedom and hometown when becoming Emperor - I mean, who could have predicted MT would do that, amirite?

Speaking of Austrians: So, I had this cousin. Austrian Trenck was an early supporter of MT's and distinguished himself in her service by fighting for her from Day 1 in 1740, like I distinguished myself in the service of Fritz and his family. Shut up, this is not a double entendre. We had never met, but we heard from another. And one time, when our horses got captured and Fritz nearly was captured, my cousin sent the horses back to me. So there was talk among the chaps. And then I got this letter, which I thought was from my cousin but which actually now I think was a forgery by some bastard who wanted to do me in, asking me switch sides. Which of course I refused! I mean, why would I go to the Austrians? I had a sweet deal as Fritz' batman and secret lover of A Certain High Ranking Lady! However. I was slandered. By more anonymous letters claiming I was spying for the Austrians. And woe, but Fritz listened! There may or may not have been also something about me and Very High Ranking Lady, I'm too discreet to say. Anyway, Fritz, ignoring my loyal service so far, cruelly locked me up at the fortress Glatz. He even had me sit on my gravestone! I escaped a year later. Whereto, faithful reader? Well, naturally to Vienna. Not because I was a spy. Because I had heard my cousin Austrian Trenck had made me his universal heir, and was in severe trouble himself. Naturally, I wanted to help!

My cousin Austrian Trenck really was in trouble. Several of his men as well as some civilians had accused him of war crimes, and he'd been condemned to death. MT's brother-in-law, under whom he had served, reminded her she owed him, and so she allowed a retrial. Which, however, didn't exonorate him, because brave as he was, he actually was guilty as charged. Since this was apparant in the later part of the trial, aka when I arrived in Vienna, she told him that if he pled guilty, she'd commute his sentence out of gratitude and mercy, he refused and insisted on being completely cleared, and the trial went on. So he wasn't in a good mind frame, is what I'm saying, and he turned out to be a bastard. I, a naive innocent, believed it was cousinly feeling that made him make me his heir, but really, it was because he knew Fritz would never believe I was innocent if I accepted the heritage! Also, one condition for the heritage was that I had to join Austrian service and swear not to work for Prussia again. Prussia, my beloved home country, where my beloved King and High Ranking Lady were! Naturally, I refused. At first.

So anyway, my cousin: got condemned to death again, MT commuted the sentence to life long imprisonment, my cousin took sick and died. Leaving me his heir, as promised. That was a legal nightmare, I can tell you. All part of the evil plan. The part where I had to go from one clerk to the next sounds positively out of Kafka, which fits since Kafka was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. So VERY relluctantly, I joined Austrian service. Went to Rusisa for a while, to the court of the Czarina Elizabeth where I scored again with another High Ranking Lady I Will Not Name. Some years later, 1753, I had to travel to Danzig on some family business. And would you believe it, but Fritz still held a grudge! I got arrested and imprisoned again. Which is where the worst part of my life started. Locked up in a cell in Magdeburg, and after my first escape attempt there, even chained to a wall.

(Self: Okay, Trenck, that does sound awful.)

This went on until the end of the Seven-Years-War, when MT personally asked for my release as part of the peace negotiations, and got it. So here I was, free. Went to Vienna again, where I thought MT & Co. would be overwhelmingly grateful and shower me with riches for all my sufferings. I did get an audience with her, and but would you believe it, her idea of showering me with riches was suggesting a rich widow for me to marry! ME! As if I'd marry some Austrian broad two years older than me who wasn't even a virgin. I told her that was a no go, and she was all, have it your way, and that, dear readers, was the end of Habsburg gratitude. After all I had gone through while being UNFAIRLY suspected of spying for them!

I had enough and went to Aachen, aka Aix-La-Chapelle, where I married the mayor's daughter and opened a trade with Hungarian wine. I also started publishing these memoirs. When Fritz died, his successor FW2 granted me a pension - I don't care what anyone says, you're cool with me, FW2! - , and I met my First Mysterious Lady again whom I can now reveal in the last volume was totally Princess Amalie, because sadly, she's now gone as well. We had a tearful reunion just before she died, though.

Not covered in my memoirs for obvious reasons is my ending. I went to Revolutionary Paris. Some claim to spy for the Austrians, but as if, I mean, I never did, and I had enough of Royals, I thought I'd fit right in the place where they had just gotten rid of theirs. Now, some may claim that given Prussia and Austria, allied for the first time, were in a state of war with Revolutionary France it was a bad idea for me to go there, but hey! Did anything so far make you think I have common sense? Naturally, once I was there, I started to name drop. And got arrested. I mean, I TOLD them that I was completely in sympathy with their goals, that I was a victim of both Hohenzollerns and Habsburgs and knew how much royalty sucks, but I might have mentioned that MT personally asked for my release from Prussian imprisonment as part of an explanation as to why I wasn't suffering in Prussian prison anymore. So they were all, what, MT, as in, mother of MA the Austrian bitch we just beheaded? Off with your head!

I got beheaded just ten days before Robespierre did. I guess I was a drama guy to the finish. Now, for SOME reason, historians were a bit sceptical about some of my claims. Especially the one where I scored with Amalie. But in 2008, they found a letter from me to her, written in 1787, the year of her death, which "at least indicates great familiarity", which is their way of phrasing I totally scored! Now, how my treatment at the hands of her brother made her feel about her brother is anyone's guess, but seriously, I could never figure that family out. I mean, if Fritz hadn't been listening to these ABSURD claims I was an Austrian spy and responsible for his near capture, I could have gone on being his batman and scoring with his youngest sister forever!

Edited Date: 2019-12-03 06:28 am (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Oh, right, the crazy Trenck affair was Amalie! See, I know all these stories in isolation, but summoning them all up in connection with the right person all at the same time is a bit harder. ;) Yeah, the Trenck affair (double entendre totally intended) is confusing, more confusing than the two cousin Count Rothenburgs who supported Fritz, largely because we're all WTF actually happened there???

At the very least, it's one of the cases where Fritz gets finger wagging from historians for locking someone up with so little transparency, no trial, no formal charges, etc. Bad enlightened monarch!

But in 2008, they found a letter from me to her, written in 1787, the year of her death, which "at least indicates great familiarity", which is their way of phrasing I totally scored!

Ahahahaha, love it.

I could never figure that family out.

Join the club, Trenck. Every day, I wake up to new developments from this family to stare at in disbelief.

From:

selenak

Fritz called Heinrich his other self??!!* Heinrich picked back up a correspondence with him because he needed someone to bicker with?? Heinrich moved to Wusterhausen in 1799 so he could forget about the last twelve years??!!

I know. You really couldn't make these people up. Or, to use a phrase coined by our other famous dyfunctional and intense brothers, the brothers Mann, "das brüderliche Welterlebnis". (Thanks, Tommy!)

This just goes to show that having self-awareness does not equal knowing what to do about it, which is consistent with my experiences with other highly intelligent, self-aware people with severe trauma, even in the twenty-first century.

Well, Fritz knew what to do about it, alright, it's just that his method of choice was to vary Larkin's famous "they fuck you up, your Mum and Dad, they may not mean to, but they do" into "and then you'll fuck up your brother, too". This isn't what Larkin meant by concluding that poem with "don't have any kids yourself", Fritz!

I would say at least Heinrich didn't hand down the trauma to the next generation, but taking it (at least somewhat) out on his wife isn't much better, so. Other self indeed.

OMG, this is Fritz/Voltaire levels of hateshipping, wow. This may even put them to shame. Wow wow wow

Well, it has that extra special family element. Also Fritz never did anything as serious to Voltaire as force him to marry, break the person Voltaire loves most who dies in his mind because of that, nor did he, conversely, form Voltaire's ideas about a great many things from literature to how to treat your unwanted wife. (Though I guess Voltaire did form several of Fritz' ideas by virtue of being his favourite writer.)

Silesia. He conquered Silesia. He couldn't even hold onto Bohemia or Saxony.

Which reminds me: as has been pointed out by biographers, Heinrich in his partition of Poland negotiations aquired more territory for Prussia diplomatically and thus without a single loss of (Prussian) life than Fritz managed in three Silesian wars. (I mean, it sucked for the Poles, and caused no end of trouble in European history, long term wise, but from a Prussian pov back then, this was awesome.) You can bet Heinrich pointed that out, too. Big Brother wasn't amused.

What. Why would you do that to your boyfriend?

My question exactly, which is why I had to share it. I assume T. thought Heinrich would consider it funny? Or maybe flattering, because the audience, when it noticed Heinrich was present, cheered both him and the Fritz actor with lots of Vive Frederic! Vive le frère du grand Frederic! calls. How that made Heinrich feel, I'll leave to your imagination.

That particular boyfriend also had managed the following saga:

T: So, I got my girlfriend, which yes, I had on the side, pregnant. We need money to marry. Pretty please?
H: ....Okay.
T's father and Fritz: WTF? Prussian nobles aren't allowed to marry without permission of the King! (See also: Marwitz, female edition.)
H: *keeps young T & pregnant wife from being punished, points out done is done and also there's an heir on the way, manages to achieve reconcilation*

Young Mrs. T: dies in childbirth, along with the baby

T: Woe! Comfort me!
H: *does so*

Anyway, Heinrich's romantic/sexual track record is the one thing which makes me at least consider the possibility Fritz wasn't acting purely out of spite in the four Marwitz (male) letters.

Oh, and not Ziebura, but older male historians going "why the very het Catherine and the very gay Heinrich went along so well is a complete mystery to us" clearly haven't heard of Elizabeth Taylor, which was the association I immediately had when reading about Heinrich's visits in Russia.

ETA: Meant to include this - when Fritz gave Heinrich permission to go to Paris the first time, it wasn't meant as a holiday, though of course both of them knew it would be a #lifegoal accomplished - Paris! -; Heinrich was actually there to try and woo the French away from their Austrian alliance, now that MT was dead.

(MA: come on. I know I'm not Mom, but I would never, ever, have let that happen! Joseph was counting on me!)

So, while they hash out final instructions and policies via letters, Fritz says, re: the French: "But let them come to you, don't fling yourself in their arms at the first sign of interest, the way you usually do."

Yep. That fraternal bitching is alive and well. (You can bet Fritz would have flung himself into proverbial French arms if he'd ever made it to Paris.)

Edited Date: 2019-12-03 09:02 am (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Well, Fritz knew what to do about it, alright

What I meant was that he wanted to not have the anger management issues, and he repeatedly said he kept trying to get them under control, but repeatedly failed, because he'd been fucked up in childhood. And he *wanted* better quality relationships, including with various members of his family (not including EC), and couldn't always figure out how. The people I know and know of also want to get better, but even with medication and decades of therapy don't always manage it. Reprogramming your brain after the formative years is *hard*.

You can bet Heinrich pointed that out, too. Big Brother wasn't amused.

Yep, and nope.

Anyway, Heinrich's romantic/sexual track record is the one thing which makes me at least consider the possibility Fritz wasn't acting purely out of spite in the four Marwitz (male) letters.

Oh, yeah. That was definitely on my mind when I proposed that maybe Fritz was maybe trying to save him from himself (in the most unlikely-to-succeed possible way) and then had to give up when it didn't succeed (shocker).

clearly haven't heard of Elizabeth Taylor, which was the association I immediately had when reading about Heinrich's visits in Russia.

For those of us who've heard of her but live under a rock and don't know anything about her, would you care to elaborate? Look, knowing far more about the eighteenth century than the twentieth goes all the way back to childhood with me. :P ETA: See also these anecdotes.

Edited Date: 2019-12-04 12:12 am (UTC)